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Forums - Nintendo - Why Nintendo won't drop the price of Wii U this year

Soundwave said:
I don't know if its simple as "games decide sales" neccessarily, as much as gamers would love to believe this.

The Dreamcast and GameCube had great games and really pretty awesome libraries early on, but both had sales issues right from the get go pretty much.

The Wii had explosive sales, but its library honestly wasn't much better than the Wii U at this point in time in actual quality.

A lot of this has to do with what games you have and what new audience they are bringing in.

"Quality" is a somewhat ephemeral concept. The DC and GC did both have some great games. But those games were only great for existing fans - the people who bought systems early. What it takes is a quality game that has broad appeal. The Wii U doesn't truly have that, yet, because the only serious contender for this title, NSMB U, is very similar to NSMB Wii, meaning that it's not enough to attract interest. Compare with Wii, which had Wii Sports, a completely new experience for the mainstream.

Note that the Wii U isn't going to get as much of the mainstream this early in the generation. But the Wii U doesn't need to get the mainstream just yet, because the PS4 and XBO aren't going to get them, either. What the Wii U needs to get is the mainstream gamer - the type of gamer that doesn't spend their time on the internet, buys quite a few games but isn't obsessive about it, and likes a variety of experiences. Such a gamer will pay attention to Super Mario 3D World because it's different from what came before (4 player multiplayer in 3D Mario is something new). They'll also take interest in Wonderful 101 and Rayman Legends, and CoD: Ghosts assuming it has both gamepad and Wiimote controls, among other games. A portion of the mainstream public will probably also take interest in Wii Fit U and Wii Party U, but those are going to be more value-raising, ready for when they release something big for the mainstream market.

Be aware that this isn't a prediction of massive sales. This is a prediction of the Wii U selling well enough to sustain the current price into 2014 (perhaps with new bundles, as mentioned earlier). It may last well into 2014, too, depending on possible PS4/XBO price cuts, Nintendo's 2014 lineup and distribution (a first-party drought in the first half of 2014 will likely result in a price cut).

Also don't forget that Nintendo has barely marketed the Wii U so far. I wouldn't be surprised if they've been holding off somewhat, saving up for a big push early this holiday (probably starting in October in the weeks leading up to Wii Party U and Wind Waker HD release).



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TheLastStarFighter said:
MDMAlliance said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
Actually, you could argue that it did work for 3DS as it helped to kill Vita momentum, but the handheld and console markets are very different.


No offense, but I hate when people say this.  It ignores the fact that they are also very similar as well.  Many of the basics remain the same between the markets, and that is exactly what a price cut targets.  

I would also say that the Wii U isn't priced nearly as high as the 3DS was when launched.  The Wii U, for what you're getting (hardware wise), is not that expensive like the 3DS.  Wii U was priced with the 3DS in mind.  

I'm not quite sure what the point of this statement is.  Yes, console and handhelds are both different and similar.  I was talking about the differences.  In the console market there are three players, and Sony is very significant and has lots of software support and key titles from first and third parties.  In the handheld sector, Sony is a much smaller player with virtually no high-profile first party titles.  Vita's non-game features are readily available from other, more attractive options.  To win in the handheld segment all Nintendo had to do was drop the price and secure Sony's single biggest exclusive title, Monster Hunter, to come to 3DS.  Boom.  Battle over.  On the console side, dropping the price and getting say... MGSV to be exclusive... would have impact, but would hardly kill the PS4.  Because, yes, the console and handheld markets are very different.


However that's not true.  Assuming that Nintendo won only because of a price drop and Monster Hunter is not even close to true.  The price drop didn't increase sales to where it is today.  If you look back at the sales record, the price drop helped the 3DS about as much as it helped the Vita.  Sure it may be a relatively big increase, but nonetheless it is not nearly enough to make it "acceptable" sales.  Also, Monster Hunter is only Japan.  The handheld market cannot be sustained just with Japan's sales.  Also, the 3DS got a Monster Hunter game that has been remade quite a few times and the new one coming out isn't even out yet.  The PS Vita also got a game similar to Monster Hunter but that didn't save it either.

Also, the console side you're talking about has just about the same amount of impact as it does on handhelds.  The only difference REALLY here is that there are only two major players in the handheld market, which makes the difference SEEM bigger for things like this, but it isn't really.  

The REAL market differences for handhelds and consoles come with how they are priced, what games they should get, what genres are good for it to sell the consoles, and advertising strategies.  There may be a few more but these are the big ones.



I love the gamepad.... I really do. I'm so used to off screen play that I've even thought about getting the Nvidia Shield. That said..... Nintendo dropped the ball. If they had packaged the system with a next-gen wiimote and no gamepad they could have sold the system for 50-100 bucks cheaper and probably still upped the specs to at least be able to handle Xbone ports. They could have also sold the gamepad with Nintendo Land as an add on down the road, and it would probably have given the system a nice boost (like the balance board.)

That said... I still think Nintendo will drop the price 50 bucks come November.... we'll see though.



Soundwave said:
Well one problem I see looking at their lineup is they're probably going to go right back into another drought from Jan-March 2014. Probably by April 2014 Mario Kart 8 will be ready, but really they're just not getting any real help other than token support from 3rd parties, so its all on them to carry the platform.

Nintendo haven't really announced their 2014 lineup, outside of confirming a few titles for release some time within that period.

Bayonetta and Yarn Yoshi are both potential early 2014 releases, as I see it. So too is Sega's third Sonic title. Beyond that, Nintendo may have some more titles up their sleeves (it wouldn't be unusual for them to wait until September/October to announce a title releasing in January or February). And I think there's a little more third-party support than we're seeing, because I can't help but notice that practically no third-party titles have been announced for 2014, even from the publishers that are supporting the Wii U properly (Sega, Ubisoft, Warner Bros) - I don't think it's the absence of such titles, but Nintendo focusing on 2013 and having third parties do so as well when it comes to Wii U.

Short version of answer: we don't know the early 2014 lineup.



Desertghost said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
Hard to say for sure.  Wanning interest in PS360 may also impact things, and so could improved promotion.  One challenge is the biggest game, 3D World, won't be out till December.

Do you really think 3D World will have that much of an impact? I'm sorry but I dont see anything Nintendo can do to turn this around. Sadly the Wii U will just keep selling the way is selling now, maybe get a little better for a couple of months every time they lunch a big hitter, something like the Vita but that's it. Sorry but Wii U and Vita are just too materializations of mistake.

I do.  Or at least I think it can.  3D Land has surprised a lot of people with it's popularity.  This is because its play style - while not as flashy as Galaxy, is far easier for people to play and enjoy if they don't like 3D-style games.  It brings the accuracy of 2D platforming to the visual style of 3D.  With 4-player multiplayer, it could be a massively fun title embraced by children and adults that grew up with Mario alike.  If it's well promoted, it could be a huge title.

Vita and Wii U are completely different cases.  Vita is a system with almost no widely-loved exclusive titles.  It is over-engineered technically, the most expensive option in its segment and lacking in brand value.  Wii U is a system backed by Nintendo - gaming's verion of Disney with lots of family-trusted icons and titles.  It's the cheapest new console offering in the market and one that will receive Nintendo's biggest software support.

Both could fail, but the foreseeable future of Wii U looks measurably better than Vita's.



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MDMAlliance said:
However that's not true.  Assuming that Nintendo won only because of a price drop and Monster Hunter is not even close to true.  The price drop didn't increase sales to where it is today.  If you look back at the sales record, the price drop helped the 3DS about as much as it helped the Vita.  Sure it may be a relatively big increase, but nonetheless it is not nearly enough to make it "acceptable" sales.  Also, Monster Hunter is only Japan.  The handheld market cannot be sustained just with Japan's sales.  Also, the 3DS got a Monster Hunter game that has been remade quite a few times and the new one coming out isn't even out yet.  The PS Vita also got a game similar to Monster Hunter but that didn't save it either.

Also, the console side you're talking about has just about the same amount of impact as it does on handhelds.  The only difference REALLY here is that there are only two major players in the handheld market, which makes the difference SEEM bigger for things like this, but it isn't really.  

The REAL market differences for handhelds and consoles come with how they are priced, what games they should get, what genres are good for it to sell the consoles, and advertising strategies.  There may be a few more but these are the big ones.

I didn't say it's the only reason that Nintendo won, I said it's the only things they needed to do.  This is because the markets are different.  Nintendo has a stranglehold on the market in handhelds.  The DS sold 150 million units.  Nintendo owns all of the biggest handheld franchises save Monster Hunter.  3rd parties are not major players in handhelds, and the only direct competition for Nintendo is Sony, which puts most of its efforts in consoles.  In consoles, MS, Sony and 3rd parties are major, major players.  This is a very different market.



RolStoppable said:
Right, the system would sell at $600. And with sufficient quality games available, the system will sell at $1000. Excuse me, but that's nonsense.

Perceived value according to the market. If the market disagreed with my assertions in this thread, then Wii U sales wouldn't be atrocious.

First of all, the fact that the PS3 managed to sell as well as it did proves that even a $600 system can sell (that it didn't sell more is due to the lack of sufficient value in the games to bring more people to the platform). More importantly, though, the market hasn't formed an opinion on the thing you asserted in this thread - since the thread is talking about games releasing in the second half of 2013, those games haven't released yet, and the Wii U hasn't had a chance to demonstrate possible perceived value according to the market for THOSE games.

But hey, why bother forming a counterargument when you can just mock the argument?



TheLastStarFighter said:
MDMAlliance said:
However that's not true.  Assuming that Nintendo won only because of a price drop and Monster Hunter is not even close to true.  The price drop didn't increase sales to where it is today.  If you look back at the sales record, the price drop helped the 3DS about as much as it helped the Vita.  Sure it may be a relatively big increase, but nonetheless it is not nearly enough to make it "acceptable" sales.  Also, Monster Hunter is only Japan.  The handheld market cannot be sustained just with Japan's sales.  Also, the 3DS got a Monster Hunter game that has been remade quite a few times and the new one coming out isn't even out yet.  The PS Vita also got a game similar to Monster Hunter but that didn't save it either.

Also, the console side you're talking about has just about the same amount of impact as it does on handhelds.  The only difference REALLY here is that there are only two major players in the handheld market, which makes the difference SEEM bigger for things like this, but it isn't really.  

The REAL market differences for handhelds and consoles come with how they are priced, what games they should get, what genres are good for it to sell the consoles, and advertising strategies.  There may be a few more but these are the big ones.

I didn't say it's the only reason that Nintendo won, I said it's the only things they needed to do.  This is because the markets are different.  Nintendo has a stranglehold on the market in handhelds.  The DS sold 150 million units.  Nintendo owns all of the biggest handheld franchises save Monster Hunter.  3rd parties are not major players in handhelds, and the only direct competition for Nintendo is Sony, which puts most of its efforts in consoles.  In consoles, MS, Sony and 3rd parties are major, major players.  This is a very different market.


That is also incorrect.  Do you really think that the price drop really changed that much?  The 3DS would be selling Vita levels everywhere except for Japan (with Monster Hunter) without the actual GAMES that sold it.  The only place the 3DS would be winning in is Japan if that happened.  

Also, Nintendo does not automatically have a "hold" on the market as you're making it seem.  Otherwise the launch of the 3DS would have been fine.  If the price really were such a big deal, then why are more people buying a 3DS XL?  It's $200, while now the PS Vita in Japan is also at that price.  

Saying 3rd parties are not major players in handhelds, that may only apply to North America and Europe, and mostly due to the fact that Microsoft isn't also playing a huge role in it.  However, since you wanted to bring up Japan, handhelds are well-supported by 3rd parties there.  Also, Nintendo products in general aren't supported well in the West, plus the Vita isn't doing well at all in Europe or North America so 3rd parties in the West probably just ignore it completely because of that.  

A lot of what you're saying is just circumstantial.



MDMAlliance said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
MDMAlliance said:
However that's not true.  Assuming that Nintendo won only because of a price drop and Monster Hunter is not even close to true.  The price drop didn't increase sales to where it is today.  If you look back at the sales record, the price drop helped the 3DS about as much as it helped the Vita.  Sure it may be a relatively big increase, but nonetheless it is not nearly enough to make it "acceptable" sales.  Also, Monster Hunter is only Japan.  The handheld market cannot be sustained just with Japan's sales.  Also, the 3DS got a Monster Hunter game that has been remade quite a few times and the new one coming out isn't even out yet.  The PS Vita also got a game similar to Monster Hunter but that didn't save it either.

Also, the console side you're talking about has just about the same amount of impact as it does on handhelds.  The only difference REALLY here is that there are only two major players in the handheld market, which makes the difference SEEM bigger for things like this, but it isn't really.  

The REAL market differences for handhelds and consoles come with how they are priced, what games they should get, what genres are good for it to sell the consoles, and advertising strategies.  There may be a few more but these are the big ones.

I didn't say it's the only reason that Nintendo won, I said it's the only things they needed to do.  This is because the markets are different.  Nintendo has a stranglehold on the market in handhelds.  The DS sold 150 million units.  Nintendo owns all of the biggest handheld franchises save Monster Hunter.  3rd parties are not major players in handhelds, and the only direct competition for Nintendo is Sony, which puts most of its efforts in consoles.  In consoles, MS, Sony and 3rd parties are major, major players.  This is a very different market.


That is also incorrect.  Do you really think that the price drop really changed that much?  The 3DS would be selling Vita levels everywhere except for Japan (with Monster Hunter) without the actual GAMES that sold it.  The only place the 3DS would be winning in is Japan if that happened.  

Also, Nintendo does not automatically have a "hold" on the market as you're making it seem.  Otherwise the launch of the 3DS would have been fine.  If the price really were such a big deal, then why are more people buying a 3DS XL?  It's $200, while now the PS Vita in Japan is also at that price.  

Saying 3rd parties are not major players in handhelds, that may only apply to North America and Europe, and mostly due to the fact that Microsoft isn't also playing a huge role in it.  However, since you wanted to bring up Japan, handhelds are well-supported by 3rd parties there.  Also, Nintendo products in general aren't supported well in the West, plus the Vita isn't doing well at all in Europe or North America so 3rd parties in the West probably just ignore it completely because of that.  

A lot of what you're saying is just circumstantial.

Nintendo publishes about 75% of software sales in handhelds.  Yup, that's just like the console market, 3rd parties are major players.  We can just disagree on this.  You think the markets are the same, I think their different.



I expect a price drop sometime in 2014.