Read the rest of this thread, count how many people other then me find Wii U looking much better then PS4 games.

Geez man, you live in a bubble.

Then why did you say "PS 4 9 times PS 3 ? I dont think so Tim. "

Were you arguing that PS4 will look more then 9x better? If so, I misread your message.

I don't get why you would think PS4 is more then 9x more powerful then PS3. Except for RAM, none of the components are over 9x better, most of which (like GPU speed, bus, and CPU) are only 3-5x better. Either way I won't argue it, like I said, I had a loong debate with CGI, it's impossible to explain to people that PS4 cannot be greater then the sum of its parts.

Hardware power is a relative thing when it comes to practical application.

3x over the current XB360 sounds pretty low to the layman. And to the hardware geek who actually knows the benefits of DDR5 to DDR3 RAM and the difference between an ATI HD7790 and HD7870, it STILL boils down to the end results in the games themselves.

So 3x, wait no I made a mistake it's actually 8x over our current hardware doesn't really make a stitch of difference. Either way, by numbers alone, the PS4 still has better specs, but whether that actually means anything on a practical level really remains to be seen.

That wasnt serious I just wanted to illustrate how pointless those gflop comparissons are since the architectural differences between PS3 and PS4 are massive and  it cant be that easily compared. 

PS4 is not 9 times more powerful nor 3 times more powerful it just depends on the situation,  just forget I said anything. 

Cerny himself stated that PS4 is 10x of any current-gen console.

Anyone who knows what GPU is inside PS3 (gimped down 7800GTX with memory bandwidth of 7600GT) and knows basic math will know that PS4's GPU is at least 10x of PS3, even if you take such misleading parameter as FLOPS (PS4's GPU = 1843 GFLOPS, PS3's GPU = 176GFLOPS), let alone if you look at aggregate benchmarks.

For starters, the hardware doesn't need to be 9x more powerfull in theoretical performance to achieve a 9x increase in graphical fidelity when moving to the new generation.
The GPU in the Xbox One and PS4 is not only faster, but also more efficient, it can achieve far more effects (With higher levels of quality!) with much smaller overheads.

For instance, the main thing holding back the current consoles in terms of graphics is the geometry performance, or lack there-of. (I.E. Everything is a flat surface with a little bump mapping.)
For example, between the Geforce FX and GeForce GTX 280 the geometry performance only increased by around 3 fold, that's it, that's in stark contrast to shader performance increasing by around 150x.

However, the jump from the Geforce GTX 280 to the GTX 480 the performance increase for geometry is around 8x, the Radeon 7000 series makes both of them look paltry in comparison.

That's on top of the fact that the GPU in the PS4 can actually take-on some of the tasks that the CPU usually handles and do it entirely within the graphics pipelines such as Physics and A.I, however that's entirely up to the developers discression.
And unlike the PS3, the shaders are unified, so if you have a shader or vertex heavy game, the shader pipelines will process whatever data, instead of having both on seperate fixed function pipelines, meaning more efficiency as more of the hardware is being utilised at any one time.

On top of that, the console gets updated with some other capability such as better texture compression so developers can fit higher quality textures into a smaller space.

That's just the stuff that's on the surface, dig a little deeper and look at how hardware has evolved over the past 7 years and you might be a little amazed on some of the efficiency gains, it's not about fixed function, brute force anymore.

You contradicted yourself multiple times in the thread. Once you said 10-15x more powerful, then you had a firm stance on 10x after I talked to you. . All I wanted was to get you to say 9x is probable, but you never like to admit that you're wrong.

The new GPU isn't that much faster then the one in PS3. Yes it's more effiecient, but it has to be when the speed barely improves, and the CPU is sourced from a laptop, and something like only 5x as powerful and 1.5x as fast. I know you can't measure brute power by spec alone, but when the majority of components only see 3-5x improvements, and the GPU and RAM alone see greater improvements, it's hard to argue that the PS4 is 9x or more powerful.

That's my arguement, so while better texture compression, spring physics, more polygons, etc, make the system more efficient, the PS4 is still the sum of its parts.

Anyway when you argue like this, it's hard to judge power all together because late generation games are more efficently made, and take better advantage of hardware, pushing better graphics without putting more of a load onto the system. A lot of devs never really maxed out the PS3 because of its confusing configuration, had someone made a new engine from the ground up on PS3, it would look fairly decent to a launch PS4 game.

I can't beleive I just read that.
A Geforce 7800 class GPU is not that much slower than a Radeon 7850 class GPU?

I suggest you compare them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units#GeForce_7_.287xxx.29_Series
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_AMD_graphics_processing_units#Southern_Islands_.28HD_7xxx.29_Series

There is a Vast, I mean vast difference in computional power between the 2 chips, not just sheer performance but capability.

And it seems you completely missed my point earlier, even if the CPU is only twice as fast, developers can leverage some tasks that would normally be processed on the CPU onto the GPU, the GPU is actually very good at doing heavy floating point math that can be easily threaded. (Not possible on the PS3, due to the heavy fixed function and old Geforce 7 class chip.)
Besides, console manufacturers have never taken CPU performance seriously.

I could dig and find you some contradictions, but I won't.

I don't care about "winning" an arguement, but I find it ironic how you can't admit potentially being wrong on something, yet you're always ready to tell other people when they are wrong about something. Maybe I'm not the one who proved anything to you, but I don't understand why those two little words are so hard for you to say.

That's why PS3 never really reached it's maximum, it relies heavily on CPU performance, and most people didn't design games which used it. I think now that the PS4 and One mirror PC specs a lot more, people will be able to push the systems better.

I'll look at those links later, gotta go, but even if the GPU takes on CPU tasks, and even if the GPU is the biggest improvement in the PS4 (except RAM) and the most crutial, it's still only one component. If the CPU is sourced from a laptop, and only a few times better then the one in the PS3, a good GPU can't just make that fact dissappear.