It is a bad thing when all of this comes at my expense.

Your pre-ordered PS4 expense? Right... It has no expense to you or most people on these forums. I'm not sure about you but apart from the few MS fans and CGI quality, I can't think of one Sony fan who intends on buying an Xbox ONE.

What car do you have? Please, let me tell you how shit it is and how you shouldn't have bought it.

How have they lost a potential customer when the original customer has played the game and probably thought "This is a bit crap, I'll trade it in and get a game that's good"? There's your lost customer.

As a new customer bought the used game, there are the same amount of people playing, original owner doesn't have this copy anymore, according to the developer, the same amount of people are playing. I originally bought Uncharted used, I couldn't find it for less than £30 new, bought it for £15 used to 'give it a try', it was great and I bought Uncharted 2 and 3 new, this sound like a lost customer?

Stop trying to hide behind the idea that high street stores make lots of money from us and don't give anything to the developers. GAME in the uk went bust last year because of all the money they make from used games. The developers have their money from the original sale.

LOL, is this really your argument? When I say "my expense" I am speaking as a gamer. As a gamer why is the "solution" one that positively impacts everyone other than the gamer? Why is the "solution" one that negatively impacts only the gamer? They are blaming YOU for everything and YOU sit here and agree.

Them going out of business is NEVER the gamers fault. It is the fault of those companies making boneheaded decisions and paying the price for it. We are not here to pad their stupidity with extra cash so they can make more boneheaded decisions.

Now, just to clarify, are you comparing the XBox One and it's anti-consumer policies to my car? If you really wish to know though, it is a 2001 Mitsubishi Galant that I bought 8 years ago and now has 138k miles on it and stills runs fantastic. When I feel I actually NEED a new car, I can actually sell it and get money back! Ah, the beauty of owning something.

I also never told you not to buy the XBox One. I am just voicing that these policies and their excuses for them are bullshit and many agree with me.

Should introduce program like Club Nintendo then... Club Nintendo codes only come in new games. If you buy it used there is a 99% chance someone already took the pamphlet out and used the code to gain coins (or stars for Europe). Offer cool rewards (and now downloadable games) for exchange of coins/stars. I can post everything I've gotten from Club Nintendo from coins if you want. I've gotten about $60-70 of downloadable games with coins myself not including other gifts. Problem solved! Microsoft nor Sony have such an awesome program. Proof that Nintendo thinks of easy, consumer friendly solutions to sell their games new. I believe they added some 3rd party games with ability to collect coins/stars recently.

I buy all my Nintendo published games new and I believe the Club Nintendo rewards are the main reason why. Only other reason I buy new is to avoid previous owners scratches put on disc. Club Nintendo works and is a hell of a lot better option than shitty DRM. You can't argue against my logic that Club Nintendo really works.

I said potential... Not 100%.

Stop trying to hide behind the idea that high street stores make lots of money from us and don't give anything to the developers.

That is a ridiculous statement. Why else would they encourage both trade and re-sale? To get more MONEY! I'm not even going to reply to you after this. I can't see a point. At least I posted a source with evidence to help my opinion, you just brush it off as nothing. Yet I'm trying to hide? Lol, ok.

GAME UK went out of business? Wow, how many publishers and devs have this gen? A shitload more than 1. Thats only 2006-2012.

38 Studios - 2012
3D Realms - 2009
4mm Games - 2012
7 Studios (Activision) - 2011
ACES Studio (Microsoft) - 2009
Action Forms - 2009
Artech Studios - 2011
Ascaron - 2009
Atomic Elbow - 2008
Backbone Vancouver
Beam Software/Melbourne House - 2010
BigBig (Sony) - 2012
Big Huge Games - 2012
Bizarre Creations (Activision) - 2010/2011
Black Hole Entertainment - 2012
Black Rock (Disney) - 2011
Blue Fang Games - 2011
Blue Tongue (THQ) - 2011
BottleRocket - 2009
Brash Entertainment - 2008
Budcat (Activision) - 2010
Carbonated Games - 2008
Castaway Entertainment - 2008
Cavia - 2010
Cheyenne Mountain - 2010
Cing - 2010
Clover Studios (Capcom) - 2006
Codemasters Guildford - 2011
Cohort Studios - 2011
Concrete Games - 2008
Dark Energy Digital - 2012
Deep Silver Vienna - 2010
DICE Canada - 2006
Digital Anvil - 2006
EA Chicago - 2007
EA Bright Light - 2011/2012
EA Japan - 2007
Eden Games - 2012
Eidos Manchester - 2009
Eidos Hungary - 2010
Empire Interactive - 2009
Ensemble Studios (Microsoft) - 2008
Étrange Libellules - 2012
Eurocom - 2012
Factor 5 - 2009
FASA (Microsoft) - 2007
Fizz Factor - 2009
Flagship Studios - 2008
Flight Plan - 2010
Frozen North Productions
Funcom Beijing - 2013
FuzzyEyes - 2009
Gaia
Gamelab - 2009
Game Republic - 2011
GRIN - 2009
Groove Games - 2010
Gutso Games
HB Studios Halifax - 2012
Helixe (THQ) - 2008
Hogrocket - 2012
Hudson Entertainment - 2011
Hudson Soft - 2012
Humannature Studio (Nexon Vancouver) - 2009
Ignition London - 2010
Ignition Florida - 2010
ImaginEngine - 2012
Impossible Studios - 2013
Incognito Entertainment (Sony) - 2009
Indie Built (Take-Two) - 2006
Iron Lore - 2008
Juice Games (THQ) - 2011
Junction Point - 2013
Kaos Studios (THQ) - 2011
Killaware - 2011
Killspace Entertainment - 2011
KMM Brisbane - 2011
Kuju Manila - 2009
Kuju Chemistry - 2009
Kush Games - 2008
Locomotive Games (THQ) - 2010
Loose Cannon Studios - 2010
Luxoflux - 2010
Mass Media (THQ) - 2008
Microsoft Game Studios Vancouver - 2012
Monte Cristo - 2010
Monumental Games - 2012
Midway Austin - 2009
Midway Newcastle - 2009
MTV Games - 2011
Multiverse - 2012
NetDevil - 2011
Ninja Studio - 2009
Nihon Telenet - 2007
Outerlight - 2010
Outspark - 2013
PAM Development (Take-Two) - 2008
Pandemic Australia (EA) - 2009
Pandemic LA (EA) - 2009
Paradigm Entertainment - 2008
Pi Studios - 2011
Pivotal Games (Take-Two) - 2008
PopCap Dublin - 2012
Propaganda Games (Disney) - 2011
Pseudo Interactive - 2008
Radical Entertainment - 2012
Rainbow Studios (THQ) - 2011
Razorworks - 2009
Reakktor Media - 2012
Realtime Worlds - 2010
Rebellion Derby - 2010
Red Octane - 2010
Redtribe - 2008
Rockstar Vienna - 2006
Sandblast Games (THQ) - 2008
SEGA San Francisco - 2010
Sensory Sweep Studios - 2010
Seta - 2008
Shaba Games (Activision) - 2009
SideCar Studios - 2007
Sierra Online - 2008
Snapdragon Games - 2009
SOE Denver - 2011
SOE Seattle - 2011
SOE Tuscon - 2011
Sony Liverpool - 2012
Spellbound Entertainment - 2012
Stormfront Studios - 2008
Straylight Studios - 2009
Team Bondi - 2011
The Code Monkeys - 2011
Titan Studios - 2009
THQ Australia - 2009
THQ Digital Warrington - 2009
THQ San Diego - 2012
Transmission Games/IR Gurus - 2009
Ubisoft Brazil - 2010
Ubisoft Vancouver - 2012
Underground Development/Z-Axis (Activision) - 2010
Universomo (THQ) - 2009
Venom Games (Take Two) - 2008
Vicarious Visions California - 2007
Vigil Games - 2013
Visceral Australia (EA) - 2011
Wizarbox - 2013
Wolfpack Studios - 2006
Yuke’s Company Of America - 2010
Zipper Interactive - 2012
Zoe Mode London - 2009
Zoonami - 2011
Zynga Boston - 2012
Zynga Japan - 2013

In a mature industry unsuccesfull companies go out of business, the succesfull companies stay in business and new companies are formed.

Also if no one is going out of business, so that everyone is making money, then more companies will want to join the market to get in on the profits. Thus overcrowding the market, so that less profit is made and more businesses go broke.

You just need to get to the idea that those companies didn't go out of business because of used games. I picked 3 companies at random from that list. DICE Canada, bought by EA and their Canadian office closed...you'd think EA were in canada or something. NetDevil, made MMORPGs, latest was a PC online subscription MMO called LEGO Universe, yeah 'used' sale were responsible there as well I see. Rebellion Derby, Rebellion is still open just not their Derby branch, what used to be called 'Core Design' was closed (quoted from their wikipedia page) '... Derby studio was closed by Rebellion in 2010 due to an expiring lease and the inability for the company to find a financier for the studio', yep used games again.

Regardless of how or why games companies go under is beside the point, Microsoft's guard against piracy is all this DRM stuff is and nothing to do with used games. Microsoft had a huge issue with piracy last generation, they didn't have an issue with used games.

btw, "I'm not even going to reply to you after this. I can't see a point."

Fair enough. Nice discussion none the less.

I'm not even going to reply to you after this. I can't see a point. I didn't actually mean that, it was typed under frustration of that statement. 3 out of... whatever that was isn't concrete at all. I also have no "idea" that those companies went out of business because of used games, I said it's a factor! JEEZ DUDE! The list I showed is certainly more compelling argument then just game shutting down or the 3 devs pulled at random. Read this,

• Microsoft unveiled its eighth generation console, the Xbox One, and said that it will charge pre-owned fees for used games installed on the new console.
• In comparison, Sony has allowed used games to run on its eighth generation console.
• GameStop earns more than 45% of its gross profits from used game sales.
• Although new consoles are expected to increase inventory and grow used game sales, Microsoft’s console could cut into almost a quarter of the potential sales of the retailer.

GameStop, the US retailer for used and new games, saw its stock price drop by 19 percent when Microsoft unwittingly announced its plans for used games for the Xbox ONE. Although the highly anticipated console will help revive hardware and software sales, Microsoft’s decision to charge “pre-owned” fees for used games that are installed on the new Xbox One will cut into GameStop’s main cash cow: used video game products. (Xbox One Makes It Difficult to Borrow Video Games With ‘Pre-owned Fee’) The retailer earns almost 30% of its revenues through the sale of used video games. Higher margins on this revenue stream make it the biggest contributor to its profits, with over 45% of GameStop’s gross profits coming from used video games.

Stock dropping after a console reveal for a retailer? Riddle me that friend.

Sounds pretty good to me. Carrot instead of stick is often the better way. It makes me like the company doing it instead of making me hate it.