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Forums - Microsoft - Update: Forza Motorsport 5 will run in 1080p at 60fps

davygee on 06 June 2013
kowenicki said:

But this will actually look better and not have copius amounts of screen tearing.

There is 1080p and 60hz and there is 1080p and 60hz.  This will be a the smooth as butter and gorgeous looking version with high qaulity assets and next gen car models... not previous gen car models

But the point remains, what do you want him to say.  He had to say what it does.  He was never going to say it does 4k was he? 

This is the current limit and it reaches it.  The snide remark wasnt required... and you know it!!.

There is no guarantee that there won't be screen tearing and such.  All we know is that Turn10 have stated that Forza 5 will be 1080p @ 60fps compared to 720p@60fps on the 360.  By all intends and purposes, Forza 5 may be using the same models or slightly better models because remember their engine will need to push out 2.25 times as many pixels, so I seriously doubt we will see a huge increase in the models and effects, but I'm looking forward to see what they've got to show next week.



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sales2099 on 06 June 2013
davygee said:
kowenicki said:

But this will actually look better and not have copius amounts of screen tearing.

There is 1080p and 60hz and there is 1080p and 60hz.  This will be a the smooth as butter and gorgeous looking version with high qaulity assets and next gen car models... not previous gen car models

But the point remains, what do you want him to say.  He had to say what it does.  He was never going to say it does 4k was he? 

This is the current limit and it reaches it.  The snide remark wasnt required... and you know it!!.

There is no guarantee that there won't be screen tearing and such.  All we know is that Turn10 have stated that Forza 5 will be 1080p @ 60fps compared to 720p@60fps on the 360.  By all intends and purposes, Forza 5 may be using the same models or slightly better models because remember their engine will need to push out 2.25 times as many pixels, so I seriously doubt we will see a huge increase in the models and effects, but I'm looking forward to see what they've got to show next week.

Turn 10 ain't born yesterday. They have a proven "track" record lol



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Pemalite on 06 June 2013
davygee said:

There is no guarantee that there won't be screen tearing and such.  All we know is that Turn10 have stated that Forza 5 will be 1080p @ 60fps compared to 720p@60fps on the 360.  By all intends and purposes, Forza 5 may be using the same models or slightly better models because remember their engine will need to push out 2.25 times as many pixels, so I seriously doubt we will see a huge increase in the models and effects, but I'm looking forward to see what they've got to show next week.


Model complexity itself should remain relatively static, I remember nVidia stated once that the NV30 right up to the GT200, geometry performance only increased by a factor of 3 fold, which took something like 6-7 years, where-as shader performance increased by 150 fold in the same time frame.
So at most because the Xbox One is using purely mid-range hardware, I would expect it to be at most a 6 fold increase in geometry.

However, here is the kicker, Rasterization is all about "tricks" to make rendering more efficient and fooling the eye into something being more complex than it really is, for example Impostering, which gives the impression the game world is far larger and more complex than it actually is. - Or Tessellation to give a model more geometry by altering a basic model or the use of culling to remove the processing time on objects that you cannot see in a scene or bump mapping to fool the eye into thinking that a flat surface actually has geometry.

So whilst Geometry performance may not increase by 1000x fold over the Xbox 360, once developers start to dabble in the new tricks that the consoles have available, then games will shine.
Right now though, you can't expect launch games to push the hardware, Developers don't have their head around allot of the new tech which for years has been PC exclusive.




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walsufnir on 07 June 2013
Pemalite said:
davygee said:

There is no guarantee that there won't be screen tearing and such.  All we know is that Turn10 have stated that Forza 5 will be 1080p @ 60fps compared to 720p@60fps on the 360.  By all intends and purposes, Forza 5 may be using the same models or slightly better models because remember their engine will need to push out 2.25 times as many pixels, so I seriously doubt we will see a huge increase in the models and effects, but I'm looking forward to see what they've got to show next week.


Model complexity itself should remain relatively static, I remember nVidia stated once that the NV30 right up to the GT200, geometry performance only increased by a factor of 3 fold, which took something like 6-7 years, where-as shader performance increased by 150 fold in the same time frame.
So at most because the Xbox One is using purely mid-range hardware, I would expect it to be at most a 6 fold increase in geometry.

However, here is the kicker, Rasterization is all about "tricks" to make rendering more efficient and fooling the eye into something being more complex than it really is, for example Impostering, which gives the impression the game world is far larger and more complex than it actually is. - Or Tessellation to give a model more geometry by altering a basic model or the use of culling to remove the processing time on objects that you cannot see in a scene or bump mapping to fool the eye into thinking that a flat surface actually has geometry.

So whilst Geometry performance may not increase by 1000x fold over the Xbox 360, once developers start to dabble in the new tricks that the consoles have available, then games will shine.
Right now though, you can't expect launch games to push the hardware, Developers don't have their head around allot of the new tech which for years has been PC exclusive.


Which will this be? Serious question. Which new tech is so massive that console-devs (as if they would be different to pc-devs, most engines are already multi-plat) can't do it instantly? Especially, if I remember correctly, there were several console-devs talking at SIGGRAPH about *their* achievements in graphics-stuff.



Pemalite on 07 June 2013
walsufnir said:


Which will this be? Serious question. Which new tech is so massive that console-devs (as if they would be different to pc-devs, most engines are already multi-plat) can't do it instantly? Especially, if I remember correctly, there were several console-devs talking at SIGGRAPH about *their* achievements in graphics-stuff.


Doing it instantly and doing it efficiently are two very different outcomes. :P
One is wastefull and you end up making concessions in other areas, the other adds to the image.

Also like you said most game engines are multiplatform, but most game engines are also stuck in the Direct X 9 era due to the Xbox and Playstation being incredibly ancient, they have held back PC gaming who surpassed them in both graphics capability and performance even before they launched.

You simply can't just tack on stuff like Geometry Shaders, More flexible shader pipelines allowing for integers, improved hardware instancing, Tessellation, Multi-threaded rendering, compute shaders for better shadows and lighting etc'. - Without some big rewrites of a game engine and some of the middleware,  otherwise you will end up with poor performance and graphics that aren't to it's fullest potential.

Physics has completely changed for instance, developers can now move Physics from the CPU to the GPU which will not be a change that is going to be happening on launch day. (Or at all, depends how they think it will benefit the game, I've never built a game engine that has entered the 3D space. :P)

Besides, when the Xbox and Playstation launched, developers didn't take advantage of all the hardware features, it took time, there is allot more hardware features in the graphics pipeline this time around. :)
So expect some amazing image quality by console standards towards this next generations end.




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Heavenly_King on 07 June 2013

Forza Motorsport 5 will run in 1080p at 60fps...... if you are connected to the internet, so that it can use the power of the cloud.

That is what I read based on all the XB1 DRM stupidity.



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walsufnir on 07 June 2013
Pemalite said:
walsufnir said:


Which will this be? Serious question. Which new tech is so massive that console-devs (as if they would be different to pc-devs, most engines are already multi-plat) can't do it instantly? Especially, if I remember correctly, there were several console-devs talking at SIGGRAPH about *their* achievements in graphics-stuff.


Doing it instantly and doing it efficiently are two very different outcomes. :P
One is wastefull and you end up making concessions in other areas, the other adds to the image.

Also like you said most game engines are multiplatform, but most game engines are also stuck in the Direct X 9 era due to the Xbox and Playstation being incredibly ancient, they have held back PC gaming who surpassed them in both graphics capability and performance even before they launched.

You simply can't just tack on stuff like Geometry Shaders, More flexible shader pipelines allowing for integers, improved hardware instancing, Tessellation, Multi-threaded rendering, compute shaders for better shadows and lighting etc'. - Without some big rewrites of a game engine and some of the middleware,  otherwise you will end up with poor performance and graphics that aren't to it's fullest potential.

Physics has completely changed for instance, developers can now move Physics from the CPU to the GPU which will not be a change that is going to be happening on launch day. (Or at all, depends how they think it will benefit the game, I've never built a game engine that has entered the 3D space. :P)

Besides, when the Xbox and Playstation launched, developers didn't take advantage of all the hardware features, it took time, there is allot more hardware features in the graphics pipeline this time around. :)
So expect some amazing image quality by console standards towards this next generations end.


Of course there will be rewrites and I mostly agree with you but in my opinion also pc-games will vastly improve with the new consoles. PC will be used in much better way than it is now! But given that many engines are *also* on pc I think that mostly first-party-devs have to do big rewrites especially, 3rd-party, to me, are more ready, but of course have to use the ressources the consoles give them now.



adriane23 on 07 June 2013

"No way next gen games can run at 1080p and 60FPS! It's impossiblez with teh low specz"

Quote from a lot of "knowledgeable" people on here.



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Dallinor on 07 June 2013

That's quite impressive. The 1080p is a given really, at least in my book. It's the 60fps that's surprising at that resolution.

I'm interested to see how it looks. That trailer was as good as CGI to me.



 

LilChicken22 on 07 June 2013

And Killzone PS4 is 30fps...lol

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