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Forums - Gaming - XBONE having problems with eSRAM yield. Crazy Buttocks confirms.

binary solo on 05 June 2013
sth88 said:
binary solo said:
Well this would mean Xbone might come in closer in performance to Wii U, which then makes PS4 the overpowered outlier and hence if 3rd parties start showing WiiU some love it means PS4 power gets underutilized by 3rd parties on multiplat titles. Unless of course PC is the primary dev platform in which case the devs will port to PS4 with a small to moderate downgrade, and then further downgrade to WiiU/Xbone level performance.

It still really comes down to whose exclusive library you prefer. And if MS is buying up some 3rd party exclusives it means they'll be looking for those exclusives to really deliver.

Reliability is a something on which MS can't afford to fall down. You can't release 2 systems in a row with a high failure rate and expect to sell big numbers. So powering down a bit to ensure low failure rates is totally worth the trade off.

I'm no tech expert, but doesn't the X1 have more advantages over the Wii U than just GPU speeds?  The X1 may be slowing down a bit, but the impression I've gotten is that it is still substantially more powerful than the Wii U.  Also, 3rd parties are looking at more than just tech; they're looking at sales as well.  If the Wii U fails to really take off saleswise, it might not matter that the X1 lost a little ground in terms of hardware; it won't be worth it financially to make a Wii U version of an X1/PS4 game.  My guess is that an X1 downgrade in clock speeds would only really affect the difference between Xbox and Playstation versions of multiplats, and I don't think too many people would really take notice of that unless the difference is REALLY significant (like 60fps PS4 vs 30fps X1, or something like that).  If all it amounts to is slightly better textures or a slightly more stable framerate, MS won't really suffer for it.

 

And yeah, you make a good point about exclusive libraries.  Microsoft doesn't need super powerful tech to come up with really compelling, creative experiences on their platform; their 1st party studios are loaded with talent and they will have great games that make good use of their new hardware.  Personally, I'd rather play a new Crackdown or a new Fable rather than a new God of War, even though the next God of War game will likely blow any X1 exclusive out of the water when it comes to raw visual spectacle.

Well yeah, I wasn't meaning that Xbone=Wii U now. What I was wondering (and I am also far from being a Techxpert) is that we already knew the PS4 was notably more powerful that Xbone, so we already know it's PS4>Xbone>>Wii U. But with this alleged (not sure I really believe it myself, I think it's as likely to be FUD as it is likely to be true) additional drop in performance I'm wondering if thigs will end up more like PS4>>Xbone>WiiU. Which then encourages 3rd parties to develop at the Xbone>Wii U end of town rather than the PS4>>XBone end. Just so we get the conext of the highly precise >, >>, >>> grading system a current gen comparison might be PS3~X360>>>>Wii, purely on tech specs.

I'm hoping we've seen the last of Kratos. While I've loved every game I'm ready to move on to the next action-adventure-Hack'n'Slash game SSM can cook up, unconstrained by the chains of Kratos.  I want this chick to get her own game (and a bra).

semi-NSFW: http://i.imgur.com/5lVXt3w.jpg

Image de-embedded as it is somewhat NSFW - Kantor



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

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Lafiel on 05 June 2013
DirtyP2002 said:

I am not a tech-guy, so here is my question:

The Xbox One is powerful, but not the most powerful machine the world has ever seen. MS did not hire idiots for hardware engineering, why are there heating issues? When I see the Surface pro for example, it comes in a much smaller package with a i5 CPU, 4 GB RAM plus a lot of basic-stuff a tablet needs (Full HD screen, 128 GB storage, Bluetooth, WiFi, USB 3.0, speaker, 2 built in cameras, etc). All this in a 900g, 0.53" thin device.

So what exactly makes a console struggle, when there is WAY more space for the hardware and a big fan? Sure there is a disc-drive and a more powerful GPU, but why is this a problem these days? If you say a console is not a SoC: Why not? (I don't even know if it is)

As I said I am not a tech-guy at all and this might sound stupid, but it would still be cool if you could educate me. It is just strange that we get smaller devices getting more and more powerful and a much bigger non-portable device is getting problems.

I think this "heating" issue is more of a side-rumor that has attached itself to the main rumor in this thread which is about yields.

Yields are very much dependend on how well matured the manufacturing of certain parts of the chip are. Esram afaik hasn't really seen much use since the PS2 days, so there probably is a big lack of knowledge on how to construct the part in order to get good yields with todays manufacturing processes. Additionally it is said to be a big part of the APU with 1.6 billion transistors of the reported 5 billion in the chip, so there is much room for error there.

Without knowing the stuff in detail myself I'm pretty sure that parts with errors can either not work at all or generate more heat/use more power than originally was intended and that might be were this "heating issue" discussion came into this, as MS might accept chips that are running too hot with the specs they aimed for and downclock them to reach safe working temperatures/power consumption levels (ofc that would mean all X1 consoles use these new specs) to be able to manufacture more consoles - that is pure speculation though.



walsufnir on 05 June 2013
DirtyP2002 said:

I am not a tech-guy, so here is my question:

The Xbox One is powerful, but not the most powerful machine the world has ever seen. MS did not hire idiots for hardware engineering, why are there heating issues? When I see the Surface pro for example, it comes in a much smaller package with a i5 CPU, 4 GB RAM plus a lot of basic-stuff a tablet needs (Full HD screen, 128 GB storage, Bluetooth, WiFi, USB 3.0, speaker, 2 built in cameras, etc). All this in a 900g, 0.53" thin device.

So what exactly makes a console struggle, when there is WAY more space for the hardware and a big fan? Sure there is a disc-drive and a more powerful GPU, but why is this a problem these days? If you say a console is not a SoC: Why not? (I don't even know if it is)

As I said I am not a tech-guy at all and this might sound stupid, but it would still be cool if you could educate me. It is just strange that we get smaller devices getting more and more powerful and a much bigger non-portable device is getting problems.


"The Xbox One is powerful, but not the most powerful machine the world has ever seen. MS did not hire idiots for hardware engineering, why are there heating issues?"

 

Because they pack APU *and* esram *and* memory-controller into one package, that's why. Remember? 5 billion transistors... And no, it is not an soc: This would include the whole system on the chip but there are still other things "outside" the main-chip: RAM, SHAPE, north-bridge...



NYCrysis on 05 June 2013
kowenicki said:
NYCrysis said:
Anyone else get this message from amazon?

We regret to inform you that your order will take longer to fulfill than originally estimated. Our supplier has notified us that there is a delay obtaining stock for the following items you ordered on May 30 2013.

"Microsoft Xbox One Console (Xbox One)"

We are awaiting a revised estimate from our supplier, and will email you as soon as we receive this information.

looks like more fuel on the flames of xbox one issues.

Also 2x the power means that the ps4 will be 1080p 30fps or 720p 60fps vs xb1 720p 30fps. 1080p 60fps means u need 4x the power which in this case is not possible.

I thought you couldnt order in the US yet?

Some guy on gaf got this message from amazon uk.



walsufnir on 05 June 2013
kowenicki said:
SonyHeavyMetal92 said:
DirtyP2002 said:
SonyHeavyMetal92 said:
Icy-Zone said:
Speculation is that the One will be gimped down to 800-900 GigaFlops. The PS4 has 1.86 TeraFlops and is built using identical architecture as the One. So basically games that run at 720p 30fps on the Xbox One will port over to the PS4 and run at 1080p 60fps (Typical of how PC games run multiplat games). MS effectively created a weaker and more unstable console that costs more to produce than their competitor. If this isn't the final nail in the coffin for them, I don't know what is.


If this all ends up being true during the xbox press conference at E3... imagine the chaos! it will end up being a windows 8 catastrophe all over again :P

WIndows 8 just sold 100 million copies a couple of weeks ago.

I love how people repeat some blogs, but the reality is different. If Windows 8 would be that big of a failure, MS stock price would not be on a 6 year high.


I read somewhere that the sales of PC has hit somekind of all time low do to the poor reception on windows 8 being pre installed on all new computers forcing many to buy a windows 7 license or pirate one. All i see everyday is people spewing hatred towards windows 8. I think the last windows i ever use in my life will be windows 7, unless for some reason apple shutsdown leaving microsoft in complete power.


Which of course is total nonsense.

Its more to do with tablets than windows 8 and the new adoption of tech will always slow with time.

Are all of your posts just going to be anti MS or Nintendo?  Just so I can ready myself...

 

Haha, thought the same. Not that he would be noticeable in the dusty cloud...



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SonyHeavyMetal92 on 05 June 2013
kowenicki said:
SonyHeavyMetal92 said:
DirtyP2002 said:
SonyHeavyMetal92 said:
Icy-Zone said:
Speculation is that the One will be gimped down to 800-900 GigaFlops. The PS4 has 1.86 TeraFlops and is built using identical architecture as the One. So basically games that run at 720p 30fps on the Xbox One will port over to the PS4 and run at 1080p 60fps (Typical of how PC games run multiplat games). MS effectively created a weaker and more unstable console that costs more to produce than their competitor. If this isn't the final nail in the coffin for them, I don't know what is.


If this all ends up being true during the xbox press conference at E3... imagine the chaos! it will end up being a windows 8 catastrophe all over again :P

WIndows 8 just sold 100 million copies a couple of weeks ago.

I love how people repeat some blogs, but the reality is different. If Windows 8 would be that big of a failure, MS stock price would not be on a 6 year high.


I read somewhere that the sales of PC has hit somekind of all time low do to the poor reception on windows 8 being pre installed on all new computers forcing many to buy a windows 7 license or pirate one. All i see everyday is people spewing hatred towards windows 8. I think the last windows i ever use in my life will be windows 7, unless for some reason apple shutsdown leaving microsoft in complete power.


Which of course is total nonsense.

Its more to do with tablets than windows 8 and the new adoption of tech will always slow with time.

Are all of your posts just going to be anti MS or Nintendo? (10 of your first 12 posts seem to be going that way).  Just so I can ready myself...


isnt the name of this topic Xbone having problems... what am i supposed to applaud microsoft for there being a potential RROD situation again?
i'll feel really bad for my friends if they buy a Xbox one and it has a problem like they had with their xbox 360 years back. 



DirtyP2002 on 05 June 2013
walsufnir said:
DirtyP2002 said:

I am not a tech-guy, so here is my question:

The Xbox One is powerful, but not the most powerful machine the world has ever seen. MS did not hire idiots for hardware engineering, why are there heating issues? When I see the Surface pro for example, it comes in a much smaller package with a i5 CPU, 4 GB RAM plus a lot of basic-stuff a tablet needs (Full HD screen, 128 GB storage, Bluetooth, WiFi, USB 3.0, speaker, 2 built in cameras, etc). All this in a 900g, 0.53" thin device.

So what exactly makes a console struggle, when there is WAY more space for the hardware and a big fan? Sure there is a disc-drive and a more powerful GPU, but why is this a problem these days? If you say a console is not a SoC: Why not? (I don't even know if it is)

As I said I am not a tech-guy at all and this might sound stupid, but it would still be cool if you could educate me. It is just strange that we get smaller devices getting more and more powerful and a much bigger non-portable device is getting problems.


"The Xbox One is powerful, but not the most powerful machine the world has ever seen. MS did not hire idiots for hardware engineering, why are there heating issues?"

 

Because they pack APU *and* esram *and* memory-controller into one package, that's why. Remember? 5 billion transistors... And no, it is not an soc: This would include the whole system on the chip but there are still other things "outside" the main-chip: RAM, SHAPE, north-bridge...

So why did MS go this way then?



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

NYCrysis on 05 June 2013
walsufnir said:

Haha, thought the same. Not that he would be noticeable in the dusty cloud...

U mean xb1's "secret sauce" dusty cloud LOL :D



bananaking21 on 05 June 2013
DirtyP2002 said:

I am not a tech-guy, so here is my question:

The Xbox One is powerful, but not the most powerful machine the world has ever seen. MS did not hire idiots for hardware engineering, why are there heating issues? When I see the Surface pro for example, it comes in a much smaller package with a i5 CPU, 4 GB RAM plus a lot of basic-stuff a tablet needs (Full HD screen, 128 GB storage, Bluetooth, WiFi, USB 3.0, speaker, 2 built in cameras, etc). All this in a 900g, 0.53" thin device.

So what exactly makes a console struggle, when there is WAY more space for the hardware and a big fan? Sure there is a disc-drive and a more powerful GPU, but why is this a problem these days? If you say a console is not a SoC: Why not? (I don't even know if it is)

As I said I am not a tech-guy at all and this might sound stupid, but it would still be cool if you could educate me. It is just strange that we get smaller devices getting more and more powerful and a much bigger non-portable device is getting problems.

i dont know either and i want an answer to this, it just seems very unlikely, also this report is coming after what 2 weeks of the console reveal? i honestly doubt this rumor



walsufnir on 05 June 2013
NYCrysis said:
walsufnir said:

Haha, thought the same. Not that he would be noticeable in the dusty cloud...

U mean xb1's "secret sauce" dusty cloud LOL :D


Well, at least in one I have hope :)