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Forums - Microsoft - Major Nelson: No TV Talk At E3. S'all about the games.

DarthVolod said:

I just want to know where Sony and Microsoft (we already can see that Nintendo is doing it right) stand when it comes to DRM. Games are great, but they are kind of immaterial to me if I am essentially "renting" them from Microosft and Sony thanks to the new draconian DRM that was talked about after the May 21st reveal.

I want to love both the Xbox One and the PS4, but if neither one will actually "sell" games to me anymore then I'll support Nintendo by default with Steam there to pick up the slack (yeah Steam doesn't sell games either, but the dirt cheap prices make the "rentals" justifiable).

On topic, I think the big reveal of a revived Rare franchise is what I'll be looking out for. Hoping for Banjo ... Killer Instinct was  great, but I suck at fighting games. A new Perfect Dark and Goldeneye has been done already so I don't see it being that. We haven't seen a true Banjo Kazooie game in a very long time. It would also help make up for the current lack of platformers/adventure on Xbox so it makes the most sense to me.

 

What if the drive to digital only games results in games having around the same prices and sales that Steam has. Also I would say it's not just renting when you buy digital simply because it's not a continuous fee, you only pay for the game once and you can access it wherever and whenever you want and it's much more reliable and convenient than a physical copy.

The thing I've noticed about everything that goes digital only is that it almost always leads to faster price drops and a significant amount of really good sales, especially when there are competitors. Obviously in this situation (when we're at 70% digital or more) MS is going to be competitive with PSN and Steam and vice versa.



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This should be interesting. Only games huh....MS didn't have an E3 with only games for at least the last 3 or 4 years. Wonder what they will start with.



yo_john117 said:
DarthVolod said:

I just want to know where Sony and Microsoft (we already can see that Nintendo is doing it right) stand when it comes to DRM. Games are great, but they are kind of immaterial to me if I am essentially "renting" them from Microosft and Sony thanks to the new draconian DRM that was talked about after the May 21st reveal.

I want to love both the Xbox One and the PS4, but if neither one will actually "sell" games to me anymore then I'll support Nintendo by default with Steam there to pick up the slack (yeah Steam doesn't sell games either, but the dirt cheap prices make the "rentals" justifiable).

On topic, I think the big reveal of a revived Rare franchise is what I'll be looking out for. Hoping for Banjo ... Killer Instinct was  great, but I suck at fighting games. A new Perfect Dark and Goldeneye has been done already so I don't see it being that. We haven't seen a true Banjo Kazooie game in a very long time. It would also help make up for the current lack of platformers/adventure on Xbox so it makes the most sense to me.

 

What if the drive to digital only games results in games having around the same prices and sales that Steam has. Also I would say it's not just renting when you buy digital simply because it's not a continuous fee, you only pay for the game once and you can access it wherever and whenever you want and it's much more reliable and convenient than a physical copy.

The thing I've noticed about everything that goes digital only is that it almost always leads to faster price drops and a significant amount of really good sales, especially when there are competitors. Obviously in this situation (when we're at 70% digital or more) MS is going to be competitive with PSN and Steam and vice versa.


I could certainly see prices dropping in a all digital market or a defacto digital market like the Xbox One is going for. The question then is, "why would I buy a Xbox One when I already have a PC?" Everyone needs a PC after all for web browsing, word processing, ect. ect. but a game console will, under this model, be a PC with a gimped OS that I can't really install any useful programs on nor can I upgrade it. Buying cheap used games was one of the main advantages of consoles ... what advantage does it have now? Let's say the next Xbox releases for about $400 and games are cheaper. We are probably still going to pay for Xbox live, and we will still need to own a PC anyways (basic web surfing only PCs go for at least 200-300 for a halfway decent one). 400 + 300 = 700 which is enough to buy/build a mid range PC capable of playing virtually anything a console can offer along with a slew of PC only games and a wealth of free games and MMOs. Video game consoles become obsolete under this model.

One of the key advantages of consoles over PC has been a cheap used market that allows for swapping games with friends. You buy relatively cheap dedicated console and avoid the hassle of upgrading hardware while buying pre-owned games on the cheap with some occaisional good 1st party games that PC players would not get. With used games eliminated, we just have the few exclusives that Xbox will offer. Even with the supposed 15 exclusives coming to Xbox One, how many of those will also be on PC remains to be seen.

After pondering all of this, I am starting to understand why Xbox One is moving towards TV and ect. in order to justify the existence of a console in a market where one can buy a PC, tablet, ect. that can do pretty much everything the console can do while also offering additional vital services (word processing, internet surfing ect.). Microsoft is going to have to do more then just turning the Xbox One into Steam since Steam exists on a device that everyone needs regardless of whether they are a gamer or not.

I guess as a retro gamer I was hoping things would continue on this way. In the not too distant future (after Xbox One goes under in favor of the next console) the only way we can access these games will be through emulation. It is not the end of the world if consoles go in this direction, but it does make it difficult for anyone to justify the purchase of consoles when PC offers literally everything a console can offer on a device that you need to own anyways. Used games was always a big advantage over PC, but it looks like that is going away.

Also, I refer to it as "renting" since ownership is never really transfered. I will have access to the content I "rented" only so long as Microsoft keeps its servers running (so they decide when I "return" the product). I can play any of my Xbox 360 games 20, 30, or however many years from now so long as I maintain my system. Xbox One games will all have an expiration date on them that is determined by Microsoft. No matter how well you maintain your games, they will be paperweights in 5-10 years depending on how long Microsoft keeps the servers up.



DarthVolod said:
yo_john117 said:
DarthVolod said:

I just want to know where Sony and Microsoft (we already can see that Nintendo is doing it right) stand when it comes to DRM. Games are great, but they are kind of immaterial to me if I am essentially "renting" them from Microosft and Sony thanks to the new draconian DRM that was talked about after the May 21st reveal.

I want to love both the Xbox One and the PS4, but if neither one will actually "sell" games to me anymore then I'll support Nintendo by default with Steam there to pick up the slack (yeah Steam doesn't sell games either, but the dirt cheap prices make the "rentals" justifiable).

On topic, I think the big reveal of a revived Rare franchise is what I'll be looking out for. Hoping for Banjo ... Killer Instinct was  great, but I suck at fighting games. A new Perfect Dark and Goldeneye has been done already so I don't see it being that. We haven't seen a true Banjo Kazooie game in a very long time. It would also help make up for the current lack of platformers/adventure on Xbox so it makes the most sense to me.

 

What if the drive to digital only games results in games having around the same prices and sales that Steam has. Also I would say it's not just renting when you buy digital simply because it's not a continuous fee, you only pay for the game once and you can access it wherever and whenever you want and it's much more reliable and convenient than a physical copy.

The thing I've noticed about everything that goes digital only is that it almost always leads to faster price drops and a significant amount of really good sales, especially when there are competitors. Obviously in this situation (when we're at 70% digital or more) MS is going to be competitive with PSN and Steam and vice versa.


I could certainly see prices dropping in a all digital market or a defacto digital market like the Xbox One is going for. The question then is, "why would I buy a Xbox One when I already have a PC?" Everyone needs a PC after all for web browsing, word processing, ect. ect. but a game console will, under this model, be a PC with a gimped OS that I can't really install any useful programs on nor can I upgrade it. Buying cheap used games was one of the main advantages of consoles ... what advantage does it have now? Let's say the next Xbox releases for about $400 and games are cheaper. We are probably still going to pay for Xbox live, and we will still need to own a PC anyways (basic web surfing only PCs go for at least 200-300 for a halfway decent one). 400 + 300 = 700 which is enough to buy/build a mid range PC capable of playing virtually anything a console can offer along with a slew of PC only games and a wealth of free games and MMOs. Video game consoles become obsolete under this model.

One of the key advantages of consoles over PC has been a cheap used market that allows for swapping games with friends. You buy relatively cheap dedicated console and avoid the hassle of upgrading hardware while buying pre-owned games on the cheap with some occaisional good 1st party games that PC players would not get. With used games eliminated, we just have the few exclusives that Xbox will offer. Even with the supposed 15 exclusives coming to Xbox One, how many of those will also be on PC remains to be seen.

After pondering all of this, I am starting to understand why Xbox One is moving towards TV and ect. in order to justify the existence of a console in a market where one can buy a PC, tablet, ect. that can do pretty much everything the console can do while also offering additional vital services (word processing, internet surfing ect.). Microsoft is going to have to do more then just turning the Xbox One into Steam since Steam exists on a device that everyone needs regardless of whether they are a gamer or not.

I guess as a retro gamer I was hoping things would continue on this way. In the not too distant future (after Xbox One goes under in favor of the next console) the only way we can access these games will be through emulation. It is not the end of the world if consoles go in this direction, but it does make it difficult for anyone to justify the purchase of consoles when PC offers literally everything a console can offer on a device that you need to own anyways. Used games was always a big advantage over PC, but it looks like that is going away.

Also, I refer to it as "renting" since ownership is never really transfered. I will have access to the content I "rented" only so long as Microsoft keeps its servers running (so they decide when I "return" the product). I can play any of my Xbox 360 games 20, 30, or however many years from now so long as I maintain my system. Xbox One games will all have an expiration date on them that is determined by Microsoft. No matter how well you maintain your games, they will be paperweights in 5-10 years depending on how long Microsoft keeps the servers up.

I like your argument, but its a scenerio that MS isn't pursuing, nor are its fans.

This isn't about what Xbox can do that PC can't, its about what Xbox can do that PS4 can't. PC gamers have always gone their own way. This is about persuading people in the market for a console.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
maximrace said:
Now they show 10 awsome core games with stunning visuals and innovative gameplay and all the trolls will be bitch about are the 5 kinect/xbla games

It would really depend on what Sony shows.If they show less exclusives, then we have the bargaining power. If Sony shows a Move title or child-friendly PSN game, that will go a long way to cancel out any kinect showings.

Maybe Sony will spend 20 minutes again on some crappy Wonderbook type game lol. 



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Zizzla_Rachet said:
JusSayian said:
Well he said this before, but some people need things to be repeated multiple times before it sinks in.
All we have to worry about now if we will see causal stuff like Kinect adventures 2. I would actually like to see hardcore Kinect games for once.


Ryse is supposed to use Kinect

Ryse uses both controller and Kinect:



AAA300 said:

I'd say people are complaining more about the 24 hr connect and game restriction more than anything! And yes the tv function was crap that took up almost all the reveal. But with that said with the 24hr connect and game restriction not the mention all dlc and arcade not backwards compatible(if 360 breaks 2-3 years down the road all is lost) it wont matter if they showed 40 new games people will not like being held down and raped!!!!!!!


The interNet requirement is huge to me because it makes the system unable to play games for me.  The DRM policies I find to be the incorrect way to appeal to gamers and will hurt the industry if followed by anyone.

As for the games, I love gaming and hope all three of the big boys bring a ton of compelling games.  Of course, if the issues mentioned above are not altered then I won't be able to play those games which is a bummer.



Tv: The Game.



DarthVolod said:
yo_john117 said:

What if the drive to digital only games results in games having around the same prices and sales that Steam has. Also I would say it's not just renting when you buy digital simply because it's not a continuous fee, you only pay for the game once and you can access it wherever and whenever you want and it's much more reliable and convenient than a physical copy.

The thing I've noticed about everything that goes digital only is that it almost always leads to faster price drops and a significant amount of really good sales, especially when there are competitors. Obviously in this situation (when we're at 70% digital or more) MS is going to be competitive with PSN and Steam and vice versa.


I could certainly see prices dropping in a all digital market or a defacto digital market like the Xbox One is going for. The question then is, "why would I buy a Xbox One when I already have a PC?" Everyone needs a PC after all for web browsing, word processing, ect. ect. but a game console will, under this model, be a PC with a gimped OS that I can't really install any useful programs on nor can I upgrade it. Buying cheap used games was one of the main advantages of consoles ... what advantage does it have now? Let's say the next Xbox releases for about $400 and games are cheaper. We are probably still going to pay for Xbox live, and we will still need to own a PC anyways (basic web surfing only PCs go for at least 200-300 for a halfway decent one). 400 + 300 = 700 which is enough to buy/build a mid range PC capable of playing virtually anything a console can offer along with a slew of PC only games and a wealth of free games and MMOs. Video game consoles become obsolete under this model.

One of the key advantages of consoles over PC has been a cheap used market that allows for swapping games with friends. You buy relatively cheap dedicated console and avoid the hassle of upgrading hardware while buying pre-owned games on the cheap with some occaisional good 1st party games that PC players would not get. With used games eliminated, we just have the few exclusives that Xbox will offer. Even with the supposed 15 exclusives coming to Xbox One, how many of those will also be on PC remains to be seen.

After pondering all of this, I am starting to understand why Xbox One is moving towards TV and ect. in order to justify the existence of a console in a market where one can buy a PC, tablet, ect. that can do pretty much everything the console can do while also offering additional vital services (word processing, internet surfing ect.). Microsoft is going to have to do more then just turning the Xbox One into Steam since Steam exists on a device that everyone needs regardless of whether they are a gamer or not.

I guess as a retro gamer I was hoping things would continue on this way. In the not too distant future (after Xbox One goes under in favor of the next console) the only way we can access these games will be through emulation. It is not the end of the world if consoles go in this direction, but it does make it difficult for anyone to justify the purchase of consoles when PC offers literally everything a console can offer on a device that you need to own anyways. Used games was always a big advantage over PC, but it looks like that is going away.

Also, I refer to it as "renting" since ownership is never really transfered. I will have access to the content I "rented" only so long as Microsoft keeps its servers running (so they decide when I "return" the product). I can play any of my Xbox 360 games 20, 30, or however many years from now so long as I maintain my system. Xbox One games will all have an expiration date on them that is determined by Microsoft. No matter how well you maintain your games, they will be paperweights in 5-10 years depending on how long Microsoft keeps the servers up.

I think in this case the thing that Microsoft (and other consoles such a Playstation with PSN) really has going for them is the whole ecosystem. When you get people hooked on an ecoystem like Steam, Live, or PSN, they really won't leave unless something drastic happens. More people will be joining those ecoysystems as well due to wanting to play with friends and whatnot.

The second thing Microsoft really has going for them is ease of use. The Xbox One is probably one of the most seemless, most user friendly and generally, easy to use devices I have ever seen (if they are truly as good as they look). Granted in today's world it's not very difficult to hook up a PC to your TV and play Steam/Origin games off of it but compared to consoles, it's still a much bigger hassle (even if it's not that big of a hassle in reality, it still is in many people's minds). When most people think of computer gaming, they automatically associate them more lone wolf type of gaming (even though that isn't necessarily true either), hassles, and sitting at a desk with a computer chair wheras most people associate consoles with community, a laid back feeling, and ease of use. I think the fact that Steam is making a Steambox is proof enough of that market being perfectly viable even without used games.

Then you have exclusive games, timed exclusive content (COD DLC first on Xbox is huge for a lot of people) and exclusive TV shows and on top of all of that you have tons of kids who are growing up on ecosystems that are purely digital (phones and tablets) so they won't care if something like the Xbox One or a future Xbox console doesn't have used games. 

It's the same thing as why buy a Tablet when a PC can do all that and more? 

 

I honestly think in the future we will get down to 2-3 devices total. A TV that plays console games, TV, Cable, On demand services, and in fact basically has a PC in it. A Tablet/laptop hybrid that is very powerful that seemlessly connects to all your devices, plays those same games from consoles and does everything that the TV does except it will be more portable. And finally a phone that also connects seemlessly to your devices and does all that as well. At that point in time, as far as gaming is concerned, it will boil down to what gaming service do you want to go with.