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Forums - Microsoft - Cloud Processing won't mean a thing for the Xbone

 

The Cloud will...

Significantly improve games 63 12.57%
 
Improve some games somewhat 65 12.97%
 
Might be used well here and there 101 20.16%
 
Merely PR BS 271 54.09%
 
Total:500
Dr.Grass said:
If the don't show something specific at e3 then I win.

B-)

Oh, they are going to show something at e3. It is just that they will be using an internet connection most people won't have for 20 years.



Nintendo is selling their IPs to Microsoft and this is true because:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=221391&page=1

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So if Nintendo is researching the same as MS will that make it more legit?

From Neogaf

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=568133

 

"Originally Posted by Alexandre Delattre, CTO, Nintendo European Research & Development (NERD):
The developers at Nintendo headquarters need to spend their time developing the actual platform, so I think we’d like to explore areas that they don’t have time for. For example the possibilities which are opened up by the combination of cloud technologies and new software paradigms like general purpose GPU programming.

It should be noted that while the statement seems rather vague, NERD has indeed hired, and is still hiring, researchers in the field of cloud technology, heterogenous computing, and GPGPU development. Doesn't mean we'll see some results any time soon if ever, but I don't think Nintendo would publish this piece if they didn't believe they were on the right track. Especially considering this Iwata Asks seems to be mostly aimed at potential future NERD employees.

So this apparently isn't about trivial cloud applications like storing save games and profiles on a server or something, it's seemingly about stuffing some servers with a couple of Nvidia Titans or Intel Knights Corner accelerators and using those things to provide additional computational performance over the internet. And there might actually be a practical application for something like this in gaming (same thing is true for Microsoft of course)"

 

Took the info from french site Gamekyo

http://www.gamekyo.com/group_article26596.html

 

With all these things I can only keep an open mind about this cloud computing thing. I don't know much but I'll wait and see.



AbbathTheGrim said:
Dr.Grass said:
If the don't show something specific at e3 then I win.

B-)

Oh, they are going to show something at e3. It is just that they will be using an internet connection most people won't have for 20 years.


That's one opinion.

I'm actually thinking there won't be any type of demonstration at all. In fact, I'll bet on it.

AAAAANNNYYY TAAAKKEERS!?



theres a reason sony purchase gaikai streaming games was one. they're probably looking into this themselves. i still say if sony said were going to harness the power of the clouds to boost gameplay the sony crowd would be happy for it. then they'd say our clouds will be better than ms clouds.  most of the negativity has more to do with microsoft than what may or not be possible



HoloDust said:
To sum EG's article, from things that a typical game engine cycle consists of:

- Game physics (update models)
- Triangle setup and optimization
- Tessellation
- Texturing
- Shading
- Various render passes
- Lighting calculations
- Post effects
- Immediate AI
- Ambient (world) AI
- Immediate physics (shots, collisions)
- Ambient physics

things that seem suited for running on cloud:

- ambient background tasks
- some forms of lighting (though it seems only for static environments)
- background AI

So, according to EG, not that much really can be co-processed via cloud, though it obviously can benefit open-world games with background AI/physics.

They also said that background AI is not all that useful, as in not all that noticeable to the user. Radiant AI experiments with Oblivion didn't amount to much. The AI might do all sorts of clever things on the other side of the world, but what's the point if you'll never know about it.

I guess the best use of it is a dynamic growing world. Although not too dynamic since sending altering geometery over will quickly exhaust the bandwidth. Initially I was thinking it would be cool for a From dust style skyrim world, or Motorstorm with actual persistant terrain deformation mud physics, or Forza 5 with rain pooling and fluid physics. All too much data, especially with next gen's mesh sizes.

Can you animate large crowds on the server, dead rising, dynasty warriors style. Just to animate 2000 npc's at 30 fps you already need 7.3 mbps if you can compress the data down to a mere 16 bytes per npc.

So what can you do. Update the lighting of a race track (static environment) for a specific time of day. Is that really such hard work, GT5 can do it real time. Downloading the updated track, pre-calculated shadows and all, probably takes longer then preparing it locally. All next gen engines are going for dynamic global illumination. Moving objects affecting the lighting, smoke, swirling fog, trees swaying, clouds casting shadows, dynamic fire, dynamic lights, we're finally leaving pre-baked light maps behind.

What's left. Procedural level generation. Track editors where the server can render a highly detailed custom track. It might take a while to download the result but the server can have access to vast amounts of constantly updated data to create unique content. Certainly cool but not boosting the local rendering power.

Anyway I'm very curious what/if they show anything using cloud processing at E3.



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Angelus said:
Dr.Grass said:
Angelus said:
Oh good, more armchair analysts


Thanks for the useless comment!

Actually, I wouldn't undervalue the opinion of the gamers here. For instance, I've owned NES, Megadrive, PSOne, PS2, GC, Xbx, PS3, X360, Wii, and I (literally) live with two indie devs.

NOT TO MENTION that

Oh good, more armchair analysts

begs me to ask what the hell you're doing on a videogames forum.


For one, I don't much feel like getting into an argument with you, because I've seen a lot of your comments around here, and most of it is rubbish.

There are clearly developers who have already said that they will be able to make good use of the X1's cloud capabilities, so this entire thread basically amounts to blablabla.

And I'm on a video game forum to talk about games/consoles with other people who share the same passion. Interestingly enough, there's a large group of people here, who's only passion seems to be talking shit about companies/products they don't personally support.

Have a nice day 


Times like this i wished there was a like button.



BlkPaladin said:

While I haven't read the article yet. I would have to agree with you. This cloud processing thing has a lot of how Sony sounded when talking up the Cell processor, how the PS3 would get more powerful over time as more things used the Cell so the game should improve.

Cloud processing has the same drawbacks as streaming full games. You need the bandwidth to do it and right now only a small part of the game market has the bandwidth in their area to be able to benefit from it. So the only things I see it benefiting is percistant games and creating the opportunity for larger multiplayer games.

Well read the ars article, you might want to find a way to seperate the run on links. I had to find the article "manually". It agress with was I said about it, it will just be used to "improve" the world and not improve anything that needs constant updating.


Even if you have the bandwidth, countries like Canada have Download/Upload per month GB allowance caps. It's criminal I tell ya!



@Fifaguy. I'm from Canada. I live in a small-ish city of about 260,000, and none of the 3 local isp's have any kind of hard bandwidth cap.



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

COKTOE said:
@Fifaguy. I'm from Canada. I live in a small-ish city of about 260,000, and none of the 3 local isp's have any kind of hard bandwidth cap.


And I live in a similar kind of city here and the monthly bandwidth cap is at 100GB-ish. 

Which is ridiculous, considering the nature of internet these days (for example, Netflix subscription).



@Hynad. Yes, I didn't post that correctly. I'm saying none of the isp's in my city have a "Download/Upload per month GB allowance cap" I could easily get by with 100gb per month, for now at least. I doubt my average usage would be more than 50gb per month. That's a bit of a guess though.



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."