By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Is the Xbox One illegal in Europe?

Mnementh on 27 May 2013
Turkish said:
Mnementh said:
Turkish said:

Its blocking used games and Kinect is mandatory(meaning you cant turn it off), these practices are unlawful and there are laws in place in Europe.

Which laws do you mean? There were lawsuits that decided that it is legal to sell used software. but no lawsuits that forbade making techniques for making reselling software hard or impossible. So I don't see a base, on which XBone is unlawful here.


Seems a recent law

A recent ruling by the Court of Justice of the European Union has officially stated that “an author of software cannot oppose the resale of his ‘used’ licences allowing the use of his programs downloaded from the internet”.  In essence, it is now illegal in Europe for companies to try to stop you from selling your used digitally distributed software.

The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is exhausted on its first sale.

http://www.lo-ping.org/2012/07/03/eu-court-ruling-allows-for-re-sale-of-used-games-by-end-users-you/

I'm fully aware of this ruling. But you get it wrong and this article gets it wrong to some degree.I think to remember that you can read german (sorry if I'm wrong), here a some more details:

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/EuGH-Klares-Ja-zum-Weiterverkauf-gebrauchter-Software-1631306.html

The point in the lawsuit against usedsoft was - that it was sued for reselling software. It is clearly legal to resell software in the EU. That doesn't mean, that software-devs cannot technically make it hard or impossible to resell software. That's what I wrote. If it was different, the iPhone Appstore would be illegal in Europe. But iPhones are sold here and it is possible to buy apps. I'm sure: a former collegue of me works now for an app-dev and a friend works also in a company that creates phone-apps. They can legally sell it over the appstore.

Even if I cite the article you provided:

“Therefore, even if the licence agreement prohibits a further transfer, the rightholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy. “

Microsoft doesn't prohibit resales, there is a clearly defined way to resale used games. But if I apply the interpretation, Wii, PS3, Vita and 3DS would be illegal in europe. Because it is not possible to resell  games you bought as digital downloads on these devices. And the ruling of the european court about the company usedsoft was about a case of a resale of downloaded software.

 

What MAY illegal is the fee for MS and the game-dev. That might or might not be in conformance to the rules of the EU. But in the case they are not right, MS only needs to drop the fee, but can keep the registration-process.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [GTA6]

Around the Network
Turkish on 27 May 2013
Mnementh said:
Turkish said:
Mnementh said:
Turkish said:

Its blocking used games and Kinect is mandatory(meaning you cant turn it off), these practices are unlawful and there are laws in place in Europe.

Which laws do you mean? There were lawsuits that decided that it is legal to sell used software. but no lawsuits that forbade making techniques for making reselling software hard or impossible. So I don't see a base, on which XBone is unlawful here.


Seems a recent law

A recent ruling by the Court of Justice of the European Union has officially stated that “an author of software cannot oppose the resale of his ‘used’ licences allowing the use of his programs downloaded from the internet”.  In essence, it is now illegal in Europe for companies to try to stop you from selling your used digitally distributed software.

The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is exhausted on its first sale.

http://www.lo-ping.org/2012/07/03/eu-court-ruling-allows-for-re-sale-of-used-games-by-end-users-you/

I'm fully aware of this ruling. But you get it wrong and this article gets it wrong to some degree.I think to remember that you can read german (sorry if I'm wrong), here a some more details:

http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/EuGH-Klares-Ja-zum-Weiterverkauf-gebrauchter-Software-1631306.html

The point in the lawsuit against usedsoft was - that it was sued for reselling software. It is clearly legal to resell software in the EU. That doesn't mean, that software-devs cannot technically make it hard or impossible to resell software. That's what I wrote. If it was different, the iPhone Appstore would be illegal in Europe. But iPhones are sold here and it is possible to buy apps. I'm sure: a former collegue of me works now for an app-dev and a friend works also in a company that creates phone-apps. They can legally sell it over the appstore.

Even if I cite the article you provided:

“Therefore, even if the licence agreement prohibits a further transfer, the rightholder can no longer oppose the resale of that copy. “

Microsoft doesn't prohibit resales, there is a clearly defined way to resale used games. But if I apply the interpretation, Wii, PS3, Vita and 3DS would be illegal in europe. Because it is not possible to resell  games you bought as digital downloads on these devices. And the ruling of the european court about the company usedsoft was about a case of a resale of downloaded software.

 

What MAY illegal is the fee for MS and the game-dev. That might or might not be in conformance to the rules of the EU. But in the case they are not right, MS only needs to drop the fee, but can keep the registration-process.


If the fee is illegal, then blocking used games wont be such a big problem, you'd just wipe away the game from your account and sell it to someone else without paying anything. Anyways, I think problems await microsoft in europe about this whole mess.



MDMAlliance on 27 May 2013

There's no way Microsoft would let their product not be on the Market for Europe. They would have no chance of winning if that happens. Their only real market would be North America, while their competitors would have all three markets.



the2real4mafol on 27 May 2013

It's possible but i don't know



Xbox Series, PS5 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch 2 will outsell the PS5 by 2030

TripleMMM on 28 May 2013
MDMAlliance said:
There's no way Microsoft would let their product not be on the Market for Europe. They would have no chance of winning if that happens. Their only real market would be North America, while their competitors would have all three markets.

Microsoft's goal is the US market, anything else is just perks... :/



 And proud member of the Mega Mario Movement!
Around the Network
Cypher1980 on 28 May 2013
Damagon said:
I doubt they can do anything about it considering it's a license not and actual product. In order to resell something, first you must own it. You never own a license.

You can however, sell the physical disc, that will compleley lawful and Microsoft can't and won't stop you. Don't know what good that do though, since it's nothing but a piece of plastic without the license.


Actually that law was overturned in Germany with Windows licenses. Microsoft stated a copy of Windows had its license tied to a single machine.

Deinstalation and reinstallation on another device was prohibited.

The German courts decided that this practice was contrary to their fair use laws and Microsoft now allow the practice in Germany.

Well they are forced to allow the practice in Germany.



MDMAlliance on 28 May 2013
TripleMMM said:
MDMAlliance said:
There's no way Microsoft would let their product not be on the Market for Europe. They would have no chance of winning if that happens. Their only real market would be North America, while their competitors would have all three markets.

Microsoft's goal is the US market, anything else is just perks... :/


But it should be obvious that they can't win with just one market alone.  With Sony and Nintendo having their systems sell in the other regions, Microsoft would be doomed to 3rd unless they try harder for Europe/Japan.



TripleMMM on 28 May 2013
MDMAlliance said:
TripleMMM said:
MDMAlliance said:
There's no way Microsoft would let their product not be on the Market for Europe. They would have no chance of winning if that happens. Their only real market would be North America, while their competitors would have all three markets.

Microsoft's goal is the US market, anything else is just perks... :/


But it should be obvious that they can't win with just one market alone.  With Sony and Nintendo having their systems sell in the other regions, Microsoft would be doomed to 3rd unless they try harder for Europe/Japan.

You gotta ask yourself this: What's better if you can't take it all, the marketshare or the having control in your own continent? Which has the least impact to falter?



 And proud member of the Mega Mario Movement!
MDMAlliance on 28 May 2013
TripleMMM said:
MDMAlliance said:

But it should be obvious that they can't win with just one market alone.  With Sony and Nintendo having their systems sell in the other regions, Microsoft would be doomed to 3rd unless they try harder for Europe/Japan.

You gotta ask yourself this: What's better if you can't take it all, the marketshare or the having control in your own continent? Which has the least impact to falter?


Not entirely sure what you're saying, but taking part of the market share in other regions doesn't mean risking the share in the one you lead in.  



TripleMMM on 28 May 2013
MDMAlliance said:
TripleMMM said:
MDMAlliance said:

But it should be obvious that they can't win with just one market alone.  With Sony and Nintendo having their systems sell in the other regions, Microsoft would be doomed to 3rd unless they try harder for Europe/Japan.

You gotta ask yourself this: What's better if you can't take it all, the marketshare or the having control in your own continent? Which has the least impact to falter?


Not entirely sure what you're saying, but taking part of the market share in other regions doesn't mean risking the share in the one you lead in.  

I can't really elaborate more on it, when I saw the Xbone reveal, it was really geared more for the US. I got feeling they want the US market as the prime target, 'cause it's easier to open up to the concept. Other regions would just be icing on the cake. that's all I can say... Or maybe I'm too much of a blundering idiot to explain it properly. -_-'



 And proud member of the Mega Mario Movement!