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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Shin’en Multimedia: Wii U Is Most Definitely A Next-Generation Console

curl-6 on 26 May 2013
Hynad said:
curl-6 said:
Hynad said:

The word of a developer with a track record of PS3 and 360 experience of ... zero. Shin'en is as close a third party developer could get to be first party. What with having only developed games for Nintendo platforms since its creation in 1999.  I'd be really surprised if he ever got his hands on a PS3 or 360 dev kit.

So you'll excuse me if I don't take his comments as anything other than cheerleading PR.

The PS3/360 are known inside out by the whole world by now, you don't need to have made games for them to know their capabilities.

Shin'en don't have a history of lying. They do, however, have a history of performing great technical feats across a range of different hardwares.

Oh, please.  You will always take the word of the people that say positive things about Nintendo, no matter what. No questions asked. They say what you want to hear, you believe them. And you filter what you don't want to believe. 

That's your own track record here.

Says the guys who's calling a developer a liar based on the company they develop games for.



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dahuman on 26 May 2013

oh and guys, new forum rule says we have to keep quotes within 3, just throwing it out there.



dahuman on 26 May 2013
Hynad said:
dahuman said:
TheJimbo1234 said:
dahuman said:
TheJimbo1234 said:
 

 


1) Silcon size is important. It tells allows you to get an estimate for the power of the chip, and then what other features it will have eg. bandwith, inbuilt AA features, resolution support etc. Resolution is a deal breaker. Anyone running a gaming PC will tell you this from experience. It also means less power goes into AA and more cna be placed on having prettier textures, shadows, more obejects and so on.

2) PS4 can run it....hence why it ran the more demanding U4 engine demo. No idea about the xbone, and the wiiU certainly can not.  As for the anology, that would be bandwidth. More traffic is not a problem is you have more lanes, something the PS4 has a brutal amount of.

 

 


Ok, well a few things with that demo. First off, what is it running on? Then you have the issue of falling between 24-30fps for realtively small scences, and then, most importantly, he never mentiones the WiiU but specifically mentions the ps4 and xbone for dx11 features, but mentions how they can turn them off for current consoles. I think it will be a case of dx11 for ps4, pc, xbone, and dx9 for the wiiu.

Because I'm totally not a PC gamer and not in the field and don't know what I'm talking about right? :P The size you listed is the process, not the actual size of the chip, and no, I don't think it will beat PS4 or Xbone by a long shot, I just know that the feature set isn't too different but there is a raw power difference, high->low settings if devs bother is about it, but I doubt they will.

The PS4 couldn't handle the real UE4 engine, nor can it run Samaritan at the level of that demo, which was more demanding than the UE4 demo, you got it reversed, and your analogy still doesn't work, as you can't dynamically change the amount of lanes you drive on like a sci-fi movie and that's what scalable engines or game creators can do. You make software makers sound like lazy idiots, which a lot of them actually are now that I think about it.....

 

The demo was partly PC and partly on Wii U, the PC one is the one with the higher FPS and the Wii U one is the 24-30FPS one, you can see the Wii U gamepad button at the 7 some minute mark. You'd get better lighting and better tessllation with DX11 level feature sets. Wii U doesn't have DX11, it's more DX10 level with a tessllator most likely, which would be just like DX11 but not as efficient, the difference would be settings, and they are most likely under NDA and can't really share tech info about the Wii U anyways, Nintendo is very asshole-istic about that.


The jury is still out on that samaritan demo... You're just assuming here. With proper optimization and probably some compromises, I wouldn't be surprised if it could run on the PS4.

And the demo they showed suring the reveal event wasn't fully optimized and Epic said they could have made it better if they had more time with the hardware.


Na, I'm not so unrealistic, the PS4 can't pump that amount of polygons to start with, they'd need to tone down a lot of stuff and lower the quality or disable some features. What Samaritan showed us was a lot of raw power, it was pretty ridiculous actually.

I also think they could have, I'm talking about the lighting engine epic ended up not using due to the processing power, that's why I said the "real" one. I think the post one can be improved and will look much better, but SVOGI is something the new consoles just can't handle.



Hynad on 26 May 2013
curl-6 said:
Hynad said:

Oh, please.  You will always take the word of the people that say positive things about Nintendo, no matter what. No questions asked. They say what you want to hear, you believe them. And you filter what you don't want to believe. 

That's your own track record here.

Says the guys who's calling a developer a liar based on the company they develop games for.

I'm asking for proof. And none have ever been offered so far since the Wii U's launch.

Trine 2? Sure. A slight improvement for sure. But certainly not gen defining.

So forgive me if I favor results over boasts.



Torillian on 26 May 2013
curl-6 said:
Hynad said:
curl-6 said:
Hynad said:

The word of a developer with a track record of PS3 and 360 experience of ... zero. Shin'en is as close a third party developer could get to be first party. What with having only developed games for Nintendo platforms since its creation in 1999.  I'd be really surprised if he ever got his hands on a PS3 or 360 dev kit.

So you'll excuse me if I don't take his comments as anything other than cheerleading PR.

The PS3/360 are known inside out by the whole world by now, you don't need to have made games for them to know their capabilities.

Shin'en don't have a history of lying. They do, however, have a history of performing great technical feats across a range of different hardwares.

 

Seems a bit silly, the whole idea is that these developers have a lot of experience on the platforms so they know best, but then why should we trust them for comparisons with platforms they've never touched or released a game on?  I wouldn't ask Naughty Dog what the Xone is capable of, and I wouldn't ask these guys what anything non-Nintendo is capable of.  



...

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Hynad on 26 May 2013
Torillian said:
curl-6 said:
Hynad said:
curl-6 said:

The PS3/360 are known inside out by the whole world by now, you don't need to have made games for them to know their capabilities.

Shin'en don't have a history of lying. They do, however, have a history of performing great technical feats across a range of different hardwares.

 

Seems a bit silly, the whole idea is that these developers have a lot of experience on the platforms so they know best, but then why should we trust them for comparisons with platforms they've never touched or released a game on?  I wouldn't ask Naughty Dog what the Xone is capable of, and I wouldn't ask these guys what anything non-Nintendo is capable of.  

Thank you! That's exactly the point.



dahuman on 26 May 2013
Torillian said:
curl-6 said:
Hynad said:
curl-6 said:
Hynad said:

The word of a developer with a track record of PS3 and 360 experience of ... zero. Shin'en is as close a third party developer could get to be first party. What with having only developed games for Nintendo platforms since its creation in 1999.  I'd be really surprised if he ever got his hands on a PS3 or 360 dev kit.

So you'll excuse me if I don't take his comments as anything other than cheerleading PR.

The PS3/360 are known inside out by the whole world by now, you don't need to have made games for them to know their capabilities.

Shin'en don't have a history of lying. They do, however, have a history of performing great technical feats across a range of different hardwares.

 

Seems a bit silly, the whole idea is that these developers have a lot of experience on the platforms so they know best, but then why should we trust them for comparisons with platforms they've never touched or released a game on?  I wouldn't ask Naughty Dog what the Xone is capable of, and I wouldn't ask these guys what anything non-Nintendo is capable of.  


yeah, for one thing, they never mentioned the actual power, just that it's more advanced, for all we know, they could be talking about the innovation on the Wii U, which would be more opinion based. Nobody has really tapped into it yet though, that's for sure, the transistor count is much larger than the 360/PS3 to start with, the question is just if the devs will ever bother.



Otakumegane on 26 May 2013

Eh, wait for the next game they put out.

Neo was a launch title anyways, and a enhanced 3DS game.

I'm pretty sure they said that the next game would be the one to look forward to on GAF. But these guys know what they do.



http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/profile/92109/nintendopie/ Nintendopie  Was obviously right and I was obviously wrong. I will forever be a lesser being than them. (6/16/13)

DevilRising on 26 May 2013
Torillian said:

Seems a bit silly, the whole idea is that these developers have a lot of experience on the platforms so they know best, but then why should we trust them for comparisons with platforms they've never touched or released a game on?  I wouldn't ask Naughty Dog what the Xone is capable of, and I wouldn't ask these guys what anything non-Nintendo is capable of.  


I just don't see it. They're a developer. They understand hardware, and game development, FAR better than any person on these forums. Period. So whose word am I going to take in something related to those matters more, an actual known, respected games developer? Or a bunch of tech-nerds on an internet forum?

Right.



jake_the_fake1 on 26 May 2013
curl-6 said:
jake_the_fake1 said:
So Nano Assault neo runs in 720p @ 30fps, and your saying this games is an example of what cannot been done ont he 360/PS3, while Stardust HD a 2008 game on the PS3 runs in full 1080p @ 60fps. FYI Stardust has a tone of shit happening on screen in later stages both in particles and geometry.

I dunno, the article claims "Harnessing the power of the WiiU", you use it as an example of what the WiiU can do which the 360/PS3 can't do. I just figured that if the console had 'power' to harness that the same game should have come out in 1080p @ 60fps without breaking a sweat....so either this developer did a bad job harnessing the WiiU's power, or maybe they did their best, hit a limit and had to cut resolution and framerate to gain back performance to achieve the look and feel they wanted for their game, the latter seems the most convincing to me as this is what all developers seem do when faced with a compromise.

Just my opinion from a different perspective, take it as you will.

 

Nano Assault Neo runs at 60fps, not 30fps.

As for 1080p, they said: "We had the game also running in 1080p but the difference was not distinguishable when playing. Therefore we used 720p and put the free GPU cycles into higher resolution post-Fx. This was much more visible. If we had a project with less quick motions we would have gone 1080p instead"

Thank you for the correction in regards to the FPS.

My original statement stands, the developer hit a hard limit and compromised which is fine, however, After talking about harnessing the power of the WiiU they can hardly admit that they hit a limit so they just prettied up the words, turning a possible negative into a positive, typical PR spin. Honestly if the WiiU had the power to harness as he put it then 1080p with the same effects could have been possible, but that's not the case.

All of this would be a non-issue had the developer not positioned it's self as 'harnessing the power of the WiiU'. This would also be a none starter had the WiiU not been branded by Nintendo as a console with power to harness, and how Iwata wanted to dispel this misconception

"As you stated, it is a fact that some software development companies assume that Wii U is not powerful enough. On the contrary, some developers say in interviews that Wii U has a different architecture from other consoles and that, when utilized in the right way, it can perform well.

At the moment, there is a great deal of contradictory information," Iwata added. "Nintendo is required to make more efforts to dispel such a misconception...."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/404264/nintendo-wants-to-dispel-misconception-that-wii-u-is-underpowered/

Had Nintendo gone with the same approach to the power of the WiiU as they did with the power of the Wii, then no thread on this forum, nor on neogaf, or any other would we constantly be talking about the WiiU power or lack thereof, instead more would  be talking about games and services as 'power' would be a none starter for anyone, but again that's not that case which is why we have fans passionately defending the WiiU, and although admirable for their passion it is at the end of the day futile trying to prove that the WiiU is more powerful than the PS3/360 when the facts are simply this, the WiiU like the Wii before it will be missing out on 3rd party games that will be on Ps4/xboxone/PC due to a few reasons, one being the lack of power. This  to me is what Nintendo fans should be worried about and talking about.