By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Politics - Man Tricks Girlfriend Into Getting Abortion

ultima on 20 May 2013
Mr Puggsly said:
ultima said:
Mr Puggsly said:

But maybe if they had some big bucks coming in from child support we'd have less people relying on the government to get by.

They should teach this to girls in school. Only get knocked up by guys with lots of money. It'll save the country.

No. Just no. A woman (or more accurately, any person) should not be able to reach financial security just from getting knocked up. The money a parent receives from child support is supposed to go fully into the child; the parent should not benefit from it at all.

And even with your suggestion, people would still be relying on the government to get by. They'd be relying on the government to take away someone else's hard earned money and to transfer it to them. How is that fair?

Obviously, I was joking.

But poor people shouldn't be allowed to make children. Stupid poor people messing up our economy.

Oops... My bad then...



           

Around the Network
KungKras on 21 May 2013
Player1x3 said:
KungKras said:
Player1x3 said:
KungKras said:
Player1x3 said:
KungKras said:

Hahaha, you're really not in the position to call anyone on 'holier than thou' attitude.

So by your marvellous logic it's also ok to kill a person in coma because he won't experience anything. It's developing INTO A human, and by killing it, you're denying it a chance to live a human life, and thus my previous statement. No one should have the right to decide whether or not someone should get a chance at life. Abortion is a sickening, disgusting immoral murder.

And where did i ever say i approve of beating up gays? I've witnessed a gay dude getting beat up, it was pretty bad

I assumed that you approved of it in the european country poll thread with this comment " Hahaha lol. It was kinda similar here in Serbia lol.  Thats what they get for not listening to the public and the majority (I assume Georgians were also against having a parade)" But I may have misinterpreted it.

I'll copy paste what I said about it in the thread

They did have it coming. They were dumb to even have a parade there. It makes about as much sense to have a parade in Georgia as it does in Iran or Saudi Arabia. They knew general public was against it, so what did they expect to happen ? That's what i said 'lol'. Not because they were attacked, but because they actually attempted to start the parade.

There is a very important distinction between abortion and killing someone in a coma. With some people, the brain is still active, even though they aren't 'awake'. An old relative of mine got a heart attack, and was unconciouss for a few days, but when he woke up, he could remember what the doctors around him had talked about.

But you said ''it wont experience anything', that's not the situation you described there. There are lots of cases where humans are in vegetable state of coma, they wouldn't experience anything as well, so we should be allowed to kill them too? I mean, they won't experience anything, but they are a living human.

People in comas have had consiousness, and if they would some day wake up, they would probably experience a continued conciousnes. Personally, the only time that I'm in favour of dropping life support is when it can be proven that all brain cells are dead. Early fetuses have never been concious, and have never had a brain to be concious with. It's a totally different situation.

You did not address my point. By killing a developing human life inside a womb, you deny him a chance to live it's life. That's very similar to murder. The fact is as simple as that 



I did adress your point. Even if there is zero brain activity, but the cells are living, the person has had a conciousness, and would likely experience the same conciousness if his brain was restarted. So killing him would be wrong. However, if the brain cells are dead, the person is already irreversibly gone, so no need to keep dragging it out.

I'm not denying anyone anything, because 'it' is not a 'him' yet. By not aborting a fetus, I'm denying a second kid that could have been born under better circumstances the chance to live. Both kids are equally 'sentient', even if only one of them has made it to the fetus stage yet.

So killing a person in vegetative state is wrong, but killing an unborn child is ok, because it's not a fully developed human yet?

And what the hell are you talking about in your second paragraph ? What 2nd kid? You keep avoiding my point. ''It not a him yet''  It's GOING TO BE HIM in few weeks, and by killing him, YOU DENY them a chance at becoming a fully developed human being and thus you deny him a chance at living his life. You keep arguing whether or not it's a human or just a lump of cells we're talking about when that's completely irrelevant to my point - denying a chance to live. When you take the seed out of ground, you deny it a chance to become a plant, despite it not being a full plant yet. I really don't know how to make this more simple to you. It seems to me you're arguing just for the sake of your liberal agenda  

Just a disclaimer before I reply. Liberlism is the ideology of as small a state as possible, market forces running everything, and individual freedom as high as possible. I'm saying this, because Americans seem to use it to simply mean: "the opposite of conservative" or "giving the stare liberties to control people". I know you're Serbian, but if you've been watching a lot of american media, you could get the definition of the word wrong. (Even though liberalism is ideologically for abortion in this case).

The difference between you and me, is that as long as the fetus is not consious, I don't make a distinction between it and a separate sperm and egg. Therefore, I have no problems with couples storing fertilized eggs in a freezer (if the father gets a vasectomy, so thay could still have children if they want). I'll try to be more clear with the example in my previous post. Since a separate sperm and egg are pretty much equal to an early fetus, and say a couple who are not ready for kids ends up with the girl pregnant. They could abort the fetus, and wait until better times. Or they could keep the kid and let it be born during unfavorable circumstances. In my world, there is no competititon if you have the kid, then the kid that could have been born during better times is denied his chance at life, and the parents' lives are severly impacted as well.

Why I think your "all those sperms and eggs that die naturally every year were meant to" statement is wrong is because it's easy to remove any random elements. Let's say I'm a doctor at a fertility clinic, and I have taken a sperm and an egg, and have them stored in different test tubes. Now it's fully within my power if those two ever develop into a person. By choosing not to unite them and put them in a mother, I am denying them the right to become a person. Now where it gets interesting is this. What if I unite them and don't put them in a mother, but simply pour it all out in the sink? What if I put them in a mother, but she comes back two days later regretting it? Why are any of those situations different? Unless you belive that it gets a "soul" when they are united, you shouldn't have any moral objections to any of this.

 



I LOVE ICELAND!

KungKras on 21 May 2013
ultima said:
Player1x3 said:
So killing a person in vegetative state is wrong, but killing an unborn child is ok, because it's not a fully developed human yet?

And what the hell are you talking about in your second paragraph ? What 2nd kid? You keep avoiding my point. ''It not a him yet''  It's GOING TO BE HIM in few weeks, and by killing him, YOU DENY them a chance at becoming a fully developed human being and thus you deny him a chance at living his life. You keep arguing whether or not it's a human or just a lump of cells we're talking about when that's completely irrelevant to my point - denying a chance to live. When you take the seed out of ground, you deny it a chance to become a plant, despite it not being a full plant yet. I really don't know how to make this more simple to you. It seems to me you're arguing just for the sake of your liberal agenda  

It's true that when you take a seed out of the ground, you deny it a chance to become a tree. Similarly, a woman denies her egg a chance to become a fetus by not concepting in a menstrual cycle. Likewise, a man denies his sperm a chance (however miniscule) to become a fetus by not shooting his load inside a woman.

Also, consider this: if you take the aforementioned seed out of the ground, are you cutting down a tree? No, right? In the same way, you're not killing a human being when you abort a fetus.

That's a really good way of explaining it.



I LOVE ICELAND!

the2real4mafol on 21 May 2013
ultima said:
the2real4mafol said:
Jay520 said:
sc94597 said:

Frankly, my argument is that we shouldn't give the woman special powers. Do not legalize abortion for irresponsible women. Only allow it for women who have health risks or were raped (and even the latter case is contesable.) There is no natural right to kill a fetus. And no, this isn't morality I'm assuming, but natural law. 


Fair enough. I still think its a question of morality, however. I don't believe in "natural laws."

Instead of abortion, do you think instead we should force children to be raised by irresponsible parents? Who knows the consequences of that.

That's the risk with anyone though. Just because they didn't abort doesn't mean they can't be shitty parents. It's sort of luck really if you are born to good parents. Although those who want to abort but can't normally are bad parents

Let's say this statement were true (I have no idea whether or not it actually is). Would it not be better to let these people have an abortion instead of forcing them to bear a child, and condemning the said child to be raised by bad parents?

I would say so but it's hard to say whether they would make bad parents or not. I suppose age has to do with but their attitude too



Xbox Series, PS5 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch 2 will outsell the PS5 by 2030

the2real4mafol on 21 May 2013
Mr Puggsly said:
ultima said:
Mr Puggsly said:

But maybe if they had some big bucks coming in from child support we'd have less people relying on the government to get by.

They should teach this to girls in school. Only get knocked up by guys with lots of money. It'll save the country.

No. Just no. A woman (or more accurately, any person) should not be able to reach financial security just from getting knocked up. The money a parent receives from child support is supposed to go fully into the child; the parent should not benefit from it at all.

And even with your suggestion, people would still be relying on the government to get by. They'd be relying on the government to take away someone else's hard earned money and to transfer it to them. How is that fair?

Obviously, I was joking.

But poor people shouldn't be allowed to make children. Stupid poor people messing up our economy.

We would go extinct if all the poor couldn't have children, plus there wouldn't be such a thing as the rich if there wasn't someone poorer than them. And you're wrong, it's the greediness of the rich which messes up our economies. 



Xbox Series, PS5 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch 2 will outsell the PS5 by 2030

Around the Network
sc94597 on 21 May 2013
ultima said:
sc94597 said:
ultima said:
Mr Puggsly said:
ultima said:

Seriously dude? It was obviously a metaphor. It should've been clear, because, if nothing else, I asserted that it can't be called killing, then immediately afterwards talked about a guy comitting murder.

Edit: your position seems very inconsistent. You claim in another post that you're fine with the woman having the final say in whether the fetus gets an eventual birth or not. Why don't you want to charger her with murder if a fetus really is a human?

Why not charge her with murder? Because I feel taking away abortion would lead to other problems. Like women looking for more drastic methods to kill their unborn child.

So if people want to have abortions, whatever. I don't want to stop them. But don't tell me a fetus isn't a person so you can sleep better at night.

So? If the fetus is a child, then it's murder, regardless of the method used to abort. So, if the fetus is a child, then women should be charged with murder for abortion too.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying a fetus is not a person to get better shut-eye at night; trust me, I have no trouble falling asleep in the worst of times. I truly believe that a fetus is not a person. How do you justify calling a fetus a person? A fetus is a potential person. So is a sperm cell, so is an egg. Is it then also murder for men to masturbate, or for women to go through a menstrual cycle without conceiving?

Sperm cells will not develop into a person on their own, neither will eggs. Once conception occurs development begins. Consequently, a unique diploid organism is produced, and humans only come in diploid form. That's the difference between an egg or sperm cell and a fetus.

I'll quote KungKras for you, whose response is perfectly in line with my own position:

Who cares if it has the same genome as a human, it doesn have a brain, so it does not experience anything. It's not developed into a person yet, so it shouldn't get treated as a person.

Again, a fetus is a potential human being. Like a seed is a potential tree.

Many people define humanity by a unique organism which falls within the human species, which a fetus does, as opposed to one's brain-capacity. Likewise, we should promote post-birth infanticide because a baby is not a "fully-developed" human if we accept the definiton that a fully developed brain qualifies somebody as human. 

P.S The brain of a fetus develops within 4-5 weeks of conception. 



Mr Puggsly on 21 May 2013
the2real4mafol said:
Mr Puggsly said:
ultima said:
Mr Puggsly said:

But maybe if they had some big bucks coming in from child support we'd have less people relying on the government to get by.

They should teach this to girls in school. Only get knocked up by guys with lots of money. It'll save the country.

No. Just no. A woman (or more accurately, any person) should not be able to reach financial security just from getting knocked up. The money a parent receives from child support is supposed to go fully into the child; the parent should not benefit from it at all.

And even with your suggestion, people would still be relying on the government to get by. They'd be relying on the government to take away someone else's hard earned money and to transfer it to them. How is that fair?

Obviously, I was joking.

But poor people shouldn't be allowed to make children. Stupid poor people messing up our economy.

We would go extinct if all the poor couldn't have children, plus there wouldn't be such a thing as the rich if there wasn't someone poorer than them. And you're wrong, it's the greediness of the rich which messes up our economies. 

Wow, a very black and white topic to you. There isn't just poor and rich, there are people with incomes that fall inbetween that.

This is a stupid discussion. Obviously we need poor people making kids. Who else is going to fill our jails? :-p



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

the2real4mafol on 21 May 2013
Mr Puggsly said:
the2real4mafol said:
Mr Puggsly said:
ultima said:
Mr Puggsly said:

But maybe if they had some big bucks coming in from child support we'd have less people relying on the government to get by.

They should teach this to girls in school. Only get knocked up by guys with lots of money. It'll save the country.

No. Just no. A woman (or more accurately, any person) should not be able to reach financial security just from getting knocked up. The money a parent receives from child support is supposed to go fully into the child; the parent should not benefit from it at all.

And even with your suggestion, people would still be relying on the government to get by. They'd be relying on the government to take away someone else's hard earned money and to transfer it to them. How is that fair?

Obviously, I was joking.

But poor people shouldn't be allowed to make children. Stupid poor people messing up our economy.

We would go extinct if all the poor couldn't have children, plus there wouldn't be such a thing as the rich if there wasn't someone poorer than them. And you're wrong, it's the greediness of the rich which messes up our economies. 

Wow, a very black and white topic to you. There isn't just poor and rich, there are people with incomes that fall inbetween that.

This is a stupid discussion. Obviously we need poor people making kids. Who else is going to fill our jails? :-p

Well, you are just basing your "response" on poor stereotypes but add to it by saying the stupidest shit you can think of. I notice that throughout your posts. The bolded bits make that clear. Hell, you might as well become an anchor for Fox News or an editor for the Sun newspaper (or any media owned by Rupert Murdoch), you would be right at home 



Xbox Series, PS5 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch 2 will outsell the PS5 by 2030

Mr Puggsly on 21 May 2013
the2real4mafol said:

Well, you are just basing your "response" on poor stereotypes but add to it by saying the stupidest shit you can think of. I notice that throughout your posts. The bolded bits make that clear. Hell, you might as well become an anchor for Fox News or an editor for the Sun newspaper (or any media owned by Rupert Murdoch), you would be right at home 

Sterotype? More like statistics. :-p



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

blkfish92 on 21 May 2013

He's facing federal charges? What the hell for??