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Forums - Politics - Man Tricks Girlfriend Into Getting Abortion

Max King of the Wild on 18 May 2013
curl-6 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
curl-6 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
curl-6 said:
 

 

No one is forcing it. It's a consequence of an action most people make the consious decision to partake in.

By having protected sex you're not signing up to have a child, any more than by walking down the street you're signing up to get run over by a car or mugged.

Why that's a terrible argument. First of all, protected sex is not 100%. Most people know this and thus know their might be reprucussions of the action. Secondly, protected is pretty irrelevant. By your argument if they didn't sign up for it they shouldn't have to be responsible. Lastly, your argument is even remotely similar. Walking down the street doesn't cause being hit by a car

Parenthood is too big a thing to be forced on someone who took all reasonable steps to avoid it. It should be voluntary.

And its not being forced. You just have no sound argument here.



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curl-6 on 18 May 2013
Max King of the Wild said:

Parenthood is too big a thing to be forced on someone who took all reasonable steps to avoid it. It should be voluntary.

And its not being forced. You just have no sound argument here.

Not wanting something but being made to do it anyway (be a parent) is being forced.



Max King of the Wild on 18 May 2013
curl-6 said:
Max King of the Wild said:

Parenthood is too big a thing to be forced on someone who took all reasonable steps to avoid it. It should be voluntary.

And its not being forced. You just have no sound argument here.

Not wanting something but being made to do it anyway (be a parent) is being forced.

I didn't want a hangover but I was forced to have one because I got drunk last night. BUT I MADE ALL THE REASONABLE ATTEMPTS NOT TO GET ONE! I took pregame (a hangover pill). I drank liquor before beer. I ate something before drinking... but I still got one



curl-6 on 18 May 2013
Max King of the Wild said:
curl-6 said:
Max King of the Wild said:

Parenthood is too big a thing to be forced on someone who took all reasonable steps to avoid it. It should be voluntary.

And its not being forced. You just have no sound argument here.

Not wanting something but being made to do it anyway (be a parent) is being forced.

I didn't want a hangover but I was forced to have one because I got drunk last night. BUT I MADE ALL THE REASONABLE ATTEMPTS NOT TO GET ONE! I took pregame (a hangover pill). I drank liquor before beer. I ate something before drinking... but I still got one

Hangovers aren't lifechanging.



Jay520 on 18 May 2013
betacon said:
Jay520 said:
ultima said:
betacon said:
Jay520 said:
DamnTastic said:
Jay520 said:
The man should have to take responsibility for the baby since he made the conscious decision to have unprotected sex when he knew the risks.


What if the woman takes the pill and suddenly stops taking them without telling the man?


That's a risk that the man willingly took and he knew the consequences of that. He decided to trust his girlfriend without evidence and it was his own fault that he was deceived. For that, he should reap the consequences. When two people consciously decide to risk having a baby, then they need to both need to take responsibility if there is a baby.

Also, women don't have more power over men. A men has the power to have a baby with someone else who also wants a baby. Similarly, women only have power to have a baby with someone else who also wants a baby. So I'm not seeing how a woman has extra power to have a baby. Both men and women need to find a consenting, fertile mate.

Wait what? so in this story you’re suggesting it's the women fault because she took the tablets without  knowing what they were :s . There is no risk if she continued to take the pills which she agreed to * that is a fault of her and not the man. It’s deception and entrapment and against his will. You also seem to suggest a guy can have a bay with anyone he wants, yes because a lover's child is very much the same as having a baby with a street fling. (Bolded)Also quite clearly not, well not from what you say is fine, by you a women can also con a man into having a baby.


^THIS^


I honestly couldn't understand what he was saying. Perhaps you can clarify?

You’re a hypocrite, you claim a women can only have a baby with a consenting male but quite clearly if you lied about taking a tablet and a child is a result of that, then the male should not have to take that reasonability. Look at your bolded and compare it to what you orginally said in the first paragraph. I also made the comparison to the female in the story taking the abortion tablets without knowing what they were, by your stance is up to the individual to know the situation at hand and take responabilty for any outcome. Both lied to thus taking that control out of their hands.  



Okay, I understand you now. You're right, the bolded is hypocritical, but I fixed that sentence in a later post. Instead of " A woman can only have a baby with a consenting male", I should have said, "a woman can only have a baby with a man who agrees to have sex with her." So, if a man does agee to have sex with a woman, and a baby is born, then he should take care of it, because he was well aware of this risk.

As for the comparison, that's a good point, but there's a difference. It's common sense that If you have unprotected sex then you risk having a baby. It's not so common to know that the tablets your boyfriend gave you are abortion pills (though she still should have checked). If a person partakes in an activity with certain well-known risks, then they should have to face the consequences of those risks. However, if there is some extremely unlikely scenario (such as a condom breaking, or your boyfriend altering pills), then they should not have to take as much responsibility.

BTW, I've changed my stance on if a condom breaks. If that happens, then I don't think he should have to support the child.

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Max King of the Wild on 18 May 2013
curl-6 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
curl-6 said:
Max King of the Wild said:

 

And its not being forced. You just have no sound argument here.

Not wanting something but being made to do it anyway (be a parent) is being forced.

I didn't want a hangover but I was forced to have one because I got drunk last night. BUT I MADE ALL THE REASONABLE ATTEMPTS NOT TO GET ONE! I took pregame (a hangover pill). I drank liquor before beer. I ate something before drinking... but I still got one

Hangovers aren't lifechanging.

So? That it's a way to logically identify arguments. Substitute things that you know to hear how it sounds... I'm glad you realize how stupid the argument sounds though



Jay520 on 18 May 2013
curl-6 said:
Jay520 said:
curl-6 said:
Jay520 said:
No, he probably didn't decide to have a baby. BUT he did make the decision to take part in an activity which had a high risk of him being a parent. He took a risk, so he should be prepared to accept the consequences of this risk.

Just because society is fucked up and people treat sex like a game doesn't mean it isn't serious and people shouldn't have to pay the consequences. That's a weak argument.

This isn't the stone age, sex and procreation are no longer one and the same. There's nothing "fucked up" about having sex for fun.


Sure, you can treat sex like a fun little game if you want, by its fucked up if you don't take responsibility when the real and serious consequences result. Just because you partake in an activity for fun, doesn't mean you shouldn't take responsibility for the consequences of that activity

What's fucked up is parenthood being forced on someone.



Talking about unprotected sex here. I agree that if a baby is made from protected sex, then the man shouldn't have to take responsibility.

Jay520 on 18 May 2013
sc94597 said:
Jay520 said:
@sc

You seem to be referring to the morality of abortion, which is not what I was talking about. I'm talking about who should take responsibility and who has power

Both the man and woman should take a responsibility, because:
(a) The man chose to make decisions that results in a baby - sex; and
(b) The woman chose to make decisions that results in a baby - sex and refusing to abort.
Because both parties made decisions that resulted in a baby, both should take responsibility for a baby.

Both a man and woman have the power to decide on having a baby because a baby requires:
(a) A man who agrees to sex, which can result in a baby; and
(b) A woman who agrees to sex and does not abort, which results in a baby.

From this, we can conclude that no one can force someone to be a parent, because in order to be a parent, that person needs to make decisions which risk the birth of a baby.

So the woman makes a mistake -> she can abort the baby. 

A man makes a mistake -> oh well you're a parent. I see! Equality, huh? 



What? There is no mistake...There is no man in the world that accidentally slipped their penis into a woman's vagina and ejaculated. We're talking about men who make conscious decision to fertilized a woman. Once the man does this, its over; we shouldn't feel sorry for him or give him the ability to abort the baby. He made a decision. Deal with it.

Yes, 9 months after conception, women have more time to change their decision, but so what? That's nature. Why should we feel sorry for the man and give him special powers?

curl-6 on 18 May 2013
Max King of the Wild said:
curl-6 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
curl-6 said:
Max King of the Wild said:

 

And its not being forced. You just have no sound argument here.

Not wanting something but being made to do it anyway (be a parent) is being forced.

I didn't want a hangover but I was forced to have one because I got drunk last night. BUT I MADE ALL THE REASONABLE ATTEMPTS NOT TO GET ONE! I took pregame (a hangover pill). I drank liquor before beer. I ate something before drinking... but I still got one

Hangovers aren't lifechanging.

So? That it's a way to logically identify arguments. Substitute things that you know to hear how it sounds... I'm glad you realize how stupid the argument sounds though

Apples  and oranges.



Max King of the Wild on 18 May 2013
curl-6 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
curl-6 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
curl-6 said:
Max King of the Wild said:

 

And its not being forced. You just have no sound argument here.

Not wanting something but being made to do it anyway (be a parent) is being forced.

I didn't want a hangover but I was forced to have one because I got drunk last night. BUT I MADE ALL THE REASONABLE ATTEMPTS NOT TO GET ONE! I took pregame (a hangover pill). I drank liquor before beer. I ate something before drinking... but I still got one

Hangovers aren't lifechanging.

So? That it's a way to logically identify arguments. Substitute things that you know to hear how it sounds... I'm glad you realize how stupid the argument sounds though

Apples  and oranges.

No, you just WISH it were.