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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Cliff Bleszinski praises Sony for 'really embracing' indie movement, calls out Microsoft 'nightmare'

Chris Hu on 11 May 2013
pokoko said:
Chris Hu said:
pokoko said:

I'm not sure why you're using games from years ago when what we're talking about is NOW.  No one disputes that Microsoft beat both Sony and Nintendo to the punch at the start of this generation with regards to indie developers.  Both Sony and Nintendo clearly underestimated the demand for smaller downloadable titles and reacted poorly at first.  They got beat.  But we're not talking about THEN, we're talking about NOW.

We're talking about the crazy Machinarium situation, which made no sense, and the Retro City Rampage situation, and the Team Meat situation, and the Rob Carmel situation.  We're talking about the developer of Braid--a game you mentioned as being a major success on the 360--and his dislike of dealing with Microsoft.  You're saying he's mad about not being able to compete?  You think Rob Carmel, developer of one of the most well-known indie games of forever, is mad about not being able to compete?

I get the impression that you'll find an excuse to dismiss anyone who steps up and says something negative about their experience with Microsoft.  Never mind that, unlike most of us on the forums, these people actually have been through this for real.  These people know what they're talking about and everyone I've mentioned has been successful.

In all honesty, I've been very surprised at all the rationalizations.  I fully expected most Microsoft fans to say that Microsoft needs to step up and match what Sony and Nintendo are doing, or that they have no doubt that Microsoft will answer the bell.  I did not expect claims that all these developers were lying, especially not someone as respect in Xbox circles as Cliff Bleszinski.

Minecraft is NOW and as I already mentioned earlier the XBL marketplace has a section deticated to indie games on top of that a good chunck of XBL arcade games are indie games.  As a matter of fact the 360 marketplace has more indie games then games from big developers.  On top of that the 360 also has more other content (movies, music etc. etc.) then the PS3 and all Nintendo consoles combined.  Again my point still stands most of these indie developers bitch because there is too much content including the largest amount of indie games on a home console they have to compete against on the 360. 

Alright, man.  You win.  They're all lying.  None of them have had any negative experiences at all dealing with Microsoft behind the scenes.  I don't know why I ever believed them when I could have just asked you.

I'm not denying that at the presen't its probably easier to make money as indie publisher on the PS3 and Nintendo platforms because there is less competition from other indie games and other content.  Another reason a lot of these indie developers a bitching about MS is because they don't get preferential treatment but why should MS give out preferential treatment when they have tons of other content on their marketplace that also makes money.  My adivise to these developers is bitch less and make better games.  Minecraft sold over 4 million copies on XBL in less then a year there is plenty of money that can be made on the 360's marketplace.  Just wait until there is more indie content on Sony and Nintendo consoles there will be more indie developers that start to bitch also.



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Mad55 on 11 May 2013

Bioshock infinite is a god damn bomba!

 

Edit LMAO



michael_stutzer on 12 May 2013
Hynad said:
michael_stutzer said:
So I guess we should ignore all the game developers that are talking about this situation and believe the guys at VGC.


Thanks you!

This basically ends the thread. But there will always be those who pretend they know better. Bias and fanboyism oblige.

The funny thing is, the guy talking about this situation is Cliff Bleszinski, the same guy some MS fans were singing praises to a few years ago. All of a sudden now he is the bad guy.



huiii on 12 May 2013
Chris Hu said:
pokoko said:
Chris Hu said:
pokoko said:

I'm not sure why you're using games from years ago when what we're talking about is NOW.  No one disputes that Microsoft beat both Sony and Nintendo to the punch at the start of this generation with regards to indie developers.  Both Sony and Nintendo clearly underestimated the demand for smaller downloadable titles and reacted poorly at first.  They got beat.  But we're not talking about THEN, we're talking about NOW.

We're talking about the crazy Machinarium situation, which made no sense, and the Retro City Rampage situation, and the Team Meat situation, and the Rob Carmel situation.  We're talking about the developer of Braid--a game you mentioned as being a major success on the 360--and his dislike of dealing with Microsoft.  You're saying he's mad about not being able to compete?  You think Rob Carmel, developer of one of the most well-known indie games of forever, is mad about not being able to compete?

I get the impression that you'll find an excuse to dismiss anyone who steps up and says something negative about their experience with Microsoft.  Never mind that, unlike most of us on the forums, these people actually have been through this for real.  These people know what they're talking about and everyone I've mentioned has been successful.

In all honesty, I've been very surprised at all the rationalizations.  I fully expected most Microsoft fans to say that Microsoft needs to step up and match what Sony and Nintendo are doing, or that they have no doubt that Microsoft will answer the bell.  I did not expect claims that all these developers were lying, especially not someone as respect in Xbox circles as Cliff Bleszinski.

Minecraft is NOW and as I already mentioned earlier the XBL marketplace has a section deticated to indie games on top of that a good chunck of XBL arcade games are indie games.  As a matter of fact the 360 marketplace has more indie games then games from big developers.  On top of that the 360 also has more other content (movies, music etc. etc.) then the PS3 and all Nintendo consoles combined.  Again my point still stands most of these indie developers bitch because there is too much content including the largest amount of indie games on a home console they have to compete against on the 360. 

Alright, man.  You win.  They're all lying.  None of them have had any negative experiences at all dealing with Microsoft behind the scenes.  I don't know why I ever believed them when I could have just asked you.

I'm not denying that at the presen't its probably easier to make money as indie publisher on the PS3 and Nintendo platforms because there is less competition from other indie games and other content.  Another reason a lot of these indie developers a bitching about MS is because they don't get preferential treatment but why should MS give out preferential treatment when they have tons of other content on their marketplace that also makes money.  My adivise to these developers is bitch less and make better games.  Minecraft sold over 4 million copies on XBL in less then a year there is plenty of money that can be made on the 360's marketplace.  Just wait until there is more indie content on Sony and Nintendo consoles there will be more indie developers that start to bitch also.


You do realize this tread is not about which cosole is the better marketplace for indies in terms of sales, but about the bureaucratic hurdles of putting a game on a platform and patching it and stuff.

Noone here is trying to argue the xbox's ability to sell indie games.



S.T.A.G.E. on 12 May 2013
NobleTeam360 said:
Yeah the tons of Indie games on Xbox marketplace must really show how bad MS is treating Indie devs. Lol I can't even take anyone seriously that says that.


Microsoft created the infrastructure and made it easier in the beginning, but its slowing down now compared to the past. They are creating too much red tape for indy devs and a lot of them are getting sick of it. Half of the Xbox Live seasonal games are Microsoft funded by this point ill bet.



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Chris Hu on 12 May 2013

You do realize that some of the indie games on the 360 where made by ultra small indie companies with almost no budget and made by as little as just one person the last time something like this was possible on a home console was on the Atari 2600.



pokoko on 12 May 2013
KylieDog said:
Don't know why people choosing to ignore him, he is far from the first person to put down MS like this, even devs with XBLA exclusives have done it.

Bleszinski is just mad because he wasn't successful on Xbox.

Wait a second ...



Wagram on 12 May 2013

So many people just missing the point from the Article.



RenCutypoison on 12 May 2013
Chris Hu said:
pokoko said:

It's crazy how defensive people get over this. It's like they stick their fingers in their ears and squeeze their eyes closed.

We've seen tons of documentation on that which suggests that the Microsoft of right now has fallen behind Sony in terms of how they treat indie developers.  Now, understand, that's the PS4/Vita Sony and the Xbox 360 Microsoft.  There is nothing get defensive about at this point.  After the 720 is revealed, Microsoft might also reveal that they've revamped their processes and methods, just as Sony and Nintendo have.  In fact, that's what I expect.

For the present, however, there really is no doubt that Microsoft is behind the curve in this particular area.  It's possible that they're keeping everything under wraps for now, including improved protocol for working with smaller developers, but that's beside the point.  For the moment, most indie developers feel that Sony is easier to deal with.  Really, just deal with it.  It's not the end of the world.

That still doesn't explain why there are way more indepented games on XBL then there are on PS3 and Nintendo consoles not to metion that one of the most successful recent independent games on the PC is also the best selling game of all time on XBL.   On top of that the 360 also had the first two hugely succesful indepentent games on home consoles this gen with Braid and Castle Crashers.  My point still stands for the most part MS doesn't treat indepented developers horrible and the ones that are complaining are upset because there is so much competition on XBL.

 

There are loads of Indie game studios in north america, a lot less in Europe. Doujin games in japan are mostly on pc and are never edited here. Now think about it. When someone say console in america, what do people answer ? Playstation orn Xbox ? Knowing that Nintendo has an horrible way to treat american indies. 

There are a lot of american indie games on XBLA because there are a lot of XBOX in america. Now, imagine you are an indie dev, you hate xbox but that was the only till now, and a new generation of console randomly shows up. And you can change the way people buy by influencing your fans. would you stay with microsoft ?



Chris Hu on 12 May 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Yeah the tons of Indie games on Xbox marketplace must really show how bad MS is treating Indie devs. Lol I can't even take anyone seriously that says that.


Microsoft created the infrastructure and made it easier in the beginning, but its slowing down now compared to the past. They are creating too much red tape for indy devs and a lot of them are getting sick of it. Half of the Xbox Live seasonal games are Microsoft funded by this point ill bet.

I see no problem with MS being more selective now since there is tons more contest now one the marketplace then there was just a few years ago.  The same red tape will also appear on Sony and Nintendo consoles once they get close to getting as much content as the 360 has now.