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Forums - Gaming - PS4 To Have TRILUMINOS

Netyaroze said:
Viper1 said:
Netyaroze said:
Viper1 said:

Actually, the article is talking about Sony's Xperia smartphone, not the PS4. 

It should also be noted that this is a displ;ay technology and has nothing to do with the source device itself.  This won't be in the PS4 unless the PS4 comes with a display on it.


Yes I thought so first too. But the article itself mentiones PS4 and for Triluminos to work perfectly you need a signal that can adress the additional color depth or else it won't work properly and it just switches to classical RGB. 

Foudn it.  You're right, it does address the PS4.  But I don't see why.   The color depth is actually nothing but standard RGB.   The problem is that most displays produce white via  very poor method.   All this does is enable a better method of white display.  It doesn't matter what the source device is so long as it can output RGB.

That additional color gamut you see in the pic isn't additional color from the source unit but adidtional color the display can show. 

In other words, most displays srhink the color gamut of RGB itself so it doesn't produce the full range the source device is sending.  This display tech just allows more of that of that RGB signal to be properly shown.

Yeah I thought so too until today. But then I read this: http://www.cine4home.de/tests/TVs/Sony_W905/Test_Sony_W905.htm

 RGB does by far not transmit a native color pallet. Triluminos in PS4 solves the problem now all we need are Triluminos Games remastered Triluminos Blurays and a Triluminos TV or else the TV just "upscales" and messes up the colors.

Again, this doesn't give a different RGB color scale from the source.   I just read the article you linked.  Anything with an sRGB source or better will benefit.   Best with HDMI 1.3 spec to allow for Deep Color.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

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thewayofthepath said:
darkknightkryta said:
hinch said:
darkknightkryta said:
I'll never understand how people can market "More colours" when you get all colours from Red, Green and Amber.

Of course you can. A wider colour gamut means it can produce a wider range of colours than that of the standard sRGB (found in most consumer grade displays), thus being more accurate.

But there is no colour those 3 can't produce.

Red, Green, Amber?  I'm going to assume you mean Red, Green, Blue, which is what additive display technologies use.

RGB is used because it more or less divides the visible spectrum into equal parts, allowing it to create *most* of the colours that humans can see.  Except human eyes don't quite work like that:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/04/Cone-fundamentals-with-srgb-spectrum.svg

More sort of purple-blue, green-yellow, and orange.  This discrepenancy between our eyes and RGB additive techniques does result in colours that your monitor/TV cannot create.

I once found a persistence of vision image online that allowed one to see a colour shade that RGB cannot create.  If I find it, I'll post it.

This. With three colours we can generate the colours inside the triangle they form, so the best we can do is making the triangle as wide as we can placing its vertices in the best possible positions (with the limit that they must lie inside the colour space), but we'd need either infinite base colours along the curved border of the colour space diagram or some nonlinear tech to combine three of them to generate all the colour space.



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Viper1 said:

Again, this doesn't give a different RGB color scale from the source.   I just read the article you linked.  Anything with an sRGB source or better will benefit.   Best with HDMI 1.3 spec to allow for Deep Color.


Benefit yes but for a perfect result you need another codec+source material. Thats were Blurayplayer/Console come into play.

 

"Das nach wie vor komplexeste Thema in Sachen Heimkino ist der Farbraum- oder -umfang. Er umschreibt alle darstellbaren Farben, die der Projektor praktisch auf der Leinwand erzeugen kann. Je nach Technik ergeben sich verschiedene Potentiale in Sachen Farben.

Ausgangsbasis ist das (Film)original, das eine sehr große Farbenvielfalt aufweist, die unserem Sehvermögen nahe kommt (großer Farbraum). Dem gegenüber steht die total veraltete Videonorm, deren Grundfarben relativ blass ausfallen und die daher nur einen Teilbereich aller Kino-Farben reproduzieren kann."

 

"Besonders kräftige Farbtöne des Kino-Originals leiden unter dieser Differenz, da vor allem kräftige Rot- und Grüntöne beim Mastering der Heimkino-Version in Sättigung und Farbton reduziert werden müssen. Sie werden gleichsam in den kleineren Farbraum „hineingezogen“.

 

 

The problem appearently starts while remastering Film to Bluray/DVD and they reduce the quality to fit TV standards. HDMI already is good enough to transport the Data but its not encoded that way. 

 

"dass der native Triluminos-Farbraum gegenüber herkömmlichen LED/LCD TVs (respektive HD-Farbnorm) deutlich vergrößert ist und dem des (Film-)Originals wesentlich näher kommt

 

bis hierhin wissen wir also, dass Sonys W905 mit neuer Triluminos-Technologie zu einem sehr großen Farbraum und damit zur Darstellung besonders bunter Bilder tatsächlich in der Lage ist. Für AdobeRGB-Fotos und Camcorder mit xvYCC Aufnahme mag das auch nützlich sein, doch wie sieht es mit dem häufigsten Bildmaterial aus, mit dem es ein TV zu tun hat: Spielfilme von Blu-ray / DVD und TV-Übertragungen? Sie sind nach wie vor nach herkömmlichem Videostandard produziert und gar nicht für so große Farbräume vorgesehen"

 

Not sure if you speak german but it basically explains the need for Triluminos inside a PS4, on the other hand I don't see why PS3 couldn't be updated to support it aswell. The main problem seems to be the Sourcematerial anyway. Its a Software problem aswell as Hardware on the TV side.



Netyaroze said:
Viper1 said:

Again, this doesn't give a different RGB color scale from the source.   I just read the article you linked.  Anything with an sRGB source or better will benefit.   Best with HDMI 1.3 spec to allow for Deep Color.


Benefit yes but for a perfect result you need another codec+source material. Thats were Blurayplayer/Console come into play.

 

"Das nach wie vor komplexeste Thema in Sachen Heimkino ist der Farbraum- oder -umfang. Er umschreibt alle darstellbaren Farben, die der Projektor praktisch auf der Leinwand erzeugen kann. Je nach Technik ergeben sich verschiedene Potentiale in Sachen Farben.

Ausgangsbasis ist das (Film)original, das eine sehr große Farbenvielfalt aufweist, die unserem Sehvermögen nahe kommt (großer Farbraum). Dem gegenüber steht die total veraltete Videonorm, deren Grundfarben relativ blass ausfallen und die daher nur einen Teilbereich aller Kino-Farben reproduzieren kann."

 

"Besonders kräftige Farbtöne des Kino-Originals leiden unter dieser Differenz, da vor allem kräftige Rot- und Grüntöne beim Mastering der Heimkino-Version in Sättigung und Farbton reduziert werden müssen. Sie werden gleichsam in den kleineren Farbraum „hineingezogen“.

 

 

The problem appearently starts while remastering Film to Bluray/DVD and they reduce the quality to fit TV standards. HDMI already is good enough to transport the Data but its not encoded that way. 

 

"dass der native Triluminos-Farbraum gegenüber herkömmlichen LED/LCD TVs (respektive HD-Farbnorm) deutlich vergrößert ist und dem des (Film-)Originals wesentlich näher kommt

 

bis hierhin wissen wir also, dass Sonys W905 mit neuer Triluminos-Technologie zu einem sehr großen Farbraum und damit zur Darstellung besonders bunter Bilder tatsächlich in der Lage ist. Für AdobeRGB-Fotos und Camcorder mit xvYCC Aufnahme mag das auch nützlich sein, doch wie sieht es mit dem häufigsten Bildmaterial aus, mit dem es ein TV zu tun hat: Spielfilme von Blu-ray / DVD und TV-Übertragungen? Sie sind nach wie vor nach herkömmlichem Videostandard produziert und gar nicht für so große Farbräume vorgesehen"

 

Not sure if you speak german but it basically explains the need for Triluminos inside a PS4, on the other hand I don't see why PS3 couldn't be updated to support it aswell. The main problem seems to be the Sourcematerial anyway. Its a Software problem aswell as Hardware on the TV side.

Yes, source media needs to have the correct color gamut but not the source device...so long as it supports HDMI 1.3 like just about every thing these days.

That's why I keep saying it's not something that needs to be in the PS4.   It's just something that needs to be part of the source media.  The device (with HDMI 1.3) will handle the required color gamut already.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Viper1 said:

Yes, source media needs to have the correct color gamut but not the source device...so long as it supports HDMI 1.3 like just about every thing these days.

That's why I keep saying it's not something that needs to be in the PS4.   It's just something that needs to be part of the source media.  The device (with HDMI 1.3) will handle the required color gamut already.


Obviously but the device must be able to read the enhanced format from disc and this Triluminos is proprietary technology. And PS4 seems to support it. That is the point of mentioning PS4 in the Article. If Sony Blurays now suddenly have some kind of Triluminos label its not guaranteed every Bluray Player will be automatically fit to make use of it. 



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Netyaroze said:
Viper1 said:

Yes, source media needs to have the correct color gamut but not the source device...so long as it supports HDMI 1.3 like just about every thing these days.

That's why I keep saying it's not something that needs to be in the PS4.   It's just something that needs to be part of the source media.  The device (with HDMI 1.3) will handle the required color gamut already.


Obviously but the device must be able to read the enhanced format from disc and this Triluminos is proprietary technology. And PS4 seems to support it. That is the point of mentioning PS4 in the Article. If Sony Blurays now suddenly have some kind of Triluminos label its not guaranteed every Bluray Player will be automatically fit to make use of it. 

I don't think you get it.   Trilumos is a display technology.  So long as the source material has Deep Color, the Sony display screen will show better color range on Sony LCD's.    The PS4 itself has nothing to do wiht it. Why they mentioned it in the article is beyond me.   Read the comments.   Looks like the author had no idea what they were talking about anyway.

A device only needs to support HDMI 1.3 (or Display Port) and have YCbCr, Adobe RGB, xvYCC which just about every device does one or the other.  Not all source media does however.   That's where things need to step up.  Not the devices themselves.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Viper1 said:
Netyaroze said:
Viper1 said:

Yes, source media needs to have the correct color gamut but not the source device...so long as it supports HDMI 1.3 like just about every thing these days.

That's why I keep saying it's not something that needs to be in the PS4.   It's just something that needs to be part of the source media.  The device (with HDMI 1.3) will handle the required color gamut already.


Obviously but the device must be able to read the enhanced format from disc and this Triluminos is proprietary technology. And PS4 seems to support it. That is the point of mentioning PS4 in the Article. If Sony Blurays now suddenly have some kind of Triluminos label its not guaranteed every Bluray Player will be automatically fit to make use of it. 

I don't think you get it.   Trilumos is a display technology.  So long as the source material has Deep Color, the Sony display screen will show better color range on Sony LCD's.    The PS4 itself has nothing to do wiht it. Why they mentioned it in the article is beyond me.   Read the comments.   Looks like the author had no idea what they were talking about anyway.

A device only needs to support HDMI 1.3 (or Display Port) and have YCbCr, Adobe RGB, xvYCC which just about every device does one or the other.  Not all source media does however.   That's where things need to step up.  Not the devices themselves.


So what you are telling me is that all HDMI 1.3 devices can theoretically play data that has more color depth with the software they currently have ? So why was PS4 even mentioned ? I was thinking maybe it needed software side some updates to support Triluminos, its pretty confusing that he mentioned PS4 for no reason.  



Netyaroze said:
Viper1 said:
Netyaroze said:
Viper1 said:

Yes, source media needs to have the correct color gamut but not the source device...so long as it supports HDMI 1.3 like just about every thing these days.

That's why I keep saying it's not something that needs to be in the PS4.   It's just something that needs to be part of the source media.  The device (with HDMI 1.3) will handle the required color gamut already.


Obviously but the device must be able to read the enhanced format from disc and this Triluminos is proprietary technology. And PS4 seems to support it. That is the point of mentioning PS4 in the Article. If Sony Blurays now suddenly have some kind of Triluminos label its not guaranteed every Bluray Player will be automatically fit to make use of it. 

I don't think you get it.   Trilumos is a display technology.  So long as the source material has Deep Color, the Sony display screen will show better color range on Sony LCD's.    The PS4 itself has nothing to do wiht it. Why they mentioned it in the article is beyond me.   Read the comments.   Looks like the author had no idea what they were talking about anyway.

A device only needs to support HDMI 1.3 (or Display Port) and have YCbCr, Adobe RGB, xvYCC which just about every device does one or the other.  Not all source media does however.   That's where things need to step up.  Not the devices themselves.


So what you are telling me is that all HDMI 1.3 devices can theoretically play data that has more color depth with the software they currently have ? So why was PS4 even mentioned ? I was thinking maybe it needed software side some updates to support Triluminos, its pretty confusing that he mentioned PS4 for no reason.  

That's what I'm saying.  There is no reason to even mention PS4 other than maybe marketing.  But if you notice, it's not Sony that said it, it was that website and the comments below the article already suggest the guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

You just need a source media that has 30, 36 or 48 bit color data on it and a device with the proper output as noted before.  And, of course, one of the Sony TV's.

 

Also keep in mind that this only applies to LCD's.  Once OLED TV's become popular, this won't even matter as they naturally have a wider color range than even this technology does.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Viper1 said:

That's what I'm saying.  There is no reason to even mention PS4 other than maybe marketing.  But if you notice, it's not Sony that said it, it was that website and the comments below the article already suggest the guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

You just need a source media that has 30, 36 or 48 bit color data on it and a device with the proper output as noted before.  And, of course, one of the Sony TV's.

 

Also keep in mind that this only applies to LCD's.  Once OLED TV's become popular, this won't even matter as they naturally have a wider color range than even this technology does.


I know that OLEDs already have better color range this is just LCD trying to catchup. But this is way cheaper than OLED  (2700 for 55 inch) for the forseable future.

 

I hope other manufacturer copy the technology  and source material gets finally converted in good quality because of it.

 



Viper1 said:
Netyaroze said:

[...]


So what you are telling me is that all HDMI 1.3 devices can theoretically play data that has more color depth with the software they currently have ? So why was PS4 even mentioned ? I was thinking maybe it needed software side some updates to support Triluminos, its pretty confusing that he mentioned PS4 for no reason.  

That's what I'm saying.  There is no reason to even mention PS4 other than maybe marketing.  But if you notice, it's not Sony that said it, it was that website and the comments below the article already suggest the guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

You just need a source media that has 30, 36 or 48 bit color data on it and a device with the proper output as noted before.  And, of course, one of the Sony TV's.

 

Also keep in mind that this only applies to LCD's.  Once OLED TV's become popular, this won't even matter as they naturally have a wider color range than even this technology does.

@bolded:
This. Sony always wants to promote its whole range of products, its brand name as a whole, to keep it strong despite the problems it suffered from in the last years. Also, its display business suffered from heavy losses due to first having sticked too long to Tinitron CRTs before switching to LCDs, then, more recently, due to its low and mid range displays becoming less and less competitive, so now it has to push its middle-high and high-end displays as strong as it can, catching every opportunity to do it.
In this particular case, but it's not the first time it happens, the implicit message to send to users is "PS4, best enjoyed on Sony displays and TVs". No need at all to add "best enjoyed also on competitors' high-end OLED and enhanced LCD displays too", if they want, they can always tell the users their products are excellent for PS4 and be them the ones that advertise competitor products for free.    



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!