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Forums - Sony - Sony: "Unlike PS3, we are not planning a major loss with the launch of PS4"

Viper1 on 09 May 2013
DietSoap said:
Viper1 said:

The GC took a $9 loss per unit for the first quarter at launch but was all profit after that. 

They took an even bigger loss when they dropped to $99 iirc, don't know on the first price drop, but considering it was less than 6 months after launch I wouldn't doubt it.

As I said, they never took a loss again.



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DietSoap on 09 May 2013
Viper1 said:
DietSoap said:
Viper1 said:

The GC took a $9 loss per unit for the first quarter at launch but was all profit after that. 

They took an even bigger loss when they dropped to $99 iirc, don't know on the first price drop, but considering it was less than 6 months after launch I wouldn't doubt it.

As I said, they never took a loss again.

Source then?

 

"IGNcube: Okay. Now GameCube is selling for $99 and it's doing great. But is Nintendo losing money on each unit sold? 

Perrin: I would say that our losses are really negligible. It's such a small amount"

http://www.ign.com/articles/2004/01/15/gamecube-sales-update?page=2

 

They made up for it with software of course like they assuredly did at launch as well, but they still sold the console for a loss.



Captain_Tom on 09 May 2013
g911turbo said:
Captain_Tom said:
g911turbo said:
Captain_Tom said:
Machiavellian said:
Interesting enough, I wonder if this will be a boon to the WiiU. If Nintendo is able to bring out some big guns, drop the price to 250 and the PS4 and Nextbox come out at a price of 500 to 600 bones, I know what console I will be getting for Christmas.


He isn't saying the PS4 won't be sold at a loss, he is saying it won't be so huge that it causes an overall loss that quarter!  Duh!

 

Also the Wii U is already losing to the PS3 so I don't see how a PS4 releasing is gonna help it lol...


Strong sales of the PS3 and Xbox 360 are not going to help ANY of the next generation consoles.


When did I say they would?  I said the Wii U is losing to the 8 year old 360, and the PS4 launching won't help the Wii U.  Whether or not PS3 prices affect the PS4 much is a whole other debate...

OK, I understand what you are saying now.  So let me pose a hypothesis for your original question/statement (again, not saying this will be true just throwing something out there).

 

Also the Wii U is already losing to the PS3 so I don't see how a PS4 releasing is gonna help it lol...

Perhaps, if the PS4 is priced high enough, say 450-500, it will showcase the Wii U as a middle ground and not overpriced.  Right now the Wii U is the most expensive kid on the block.  With not many "big hitter" games, and crappy ports, it seems almost overpriced to a much more mature ps3/360.  You're paying for the tablet addition, but not many game showcase it yet...

However, with the release of the next xbox and PS4, pricing will shift.  People will have something more expensive to compare the Wii U to, almost like a reference point.  Just a thought.  Yeah the graphics will be more polished etc, but that will come at a premium.  And the controller will still not be a tablet.


Let's say the Wii U is dropped to $250 and the PS4 is $400-450.  That will still leave the PS3 likely at $200.  An extra $50 for less capacity, worse online gaming, a FAR smaller library, and a tablet controller.  

That is the inherant problem with the Wii U: It is a trade-off, and not an upgrade.  It does not deserve a price premium over the PS360.

Meanwhile the PS4 is an extra $200 for over 10x the horsepower, larger capacity, newer and more games, lightyears better onine capabilities (Background downloading, sharing,  play while downloading), and the ability to have the Vita do everything and more that the Wii U's tablet can (If you own one, or if you want to upgrade down the line).  The PS4 is a clear upgrade over this gen, and that is why people will justify its purchase.  

 

P.S.  I  will say that I am worried about how well this gen will do for all 3, but still the Wii U was a year or two too late to the party, and Nintendo is gonna have rougher times ahead if they don't completely relaunch it...



g911turbo on 09 May 2013
Captain_Tom said:
g911turbo said:
Captain_Tom said:
g911turbo said:
Captain_Tom said:
Machiavellian said:
Interesting enough, I wonder if this will be a boon to the WiiU. If Nintendo is able to bring out some big guns, drop the price to 250 and the PS4 and Nextbox come out at a price of 500 to 600 bones, I know what console I will be getting for Christmas.


He isn't saying the PS4 won't be sold at a loss, he is saying it won't be so huge that it causes an overall loss that quarter!  Duh!

 

Also the Wii U is already losing to the PS3 so I don't see how a PS4 releasing is gonna help it lol...


Strong sales of the PS3 and Xbox 360 are not going to help ANY of the next generation consoles.


When did I say they would?  I said the Wii U is losing to the 8 year old 360, and the PS4 launching won't help the Wii U.  Whether or not PS3 prices affect the PS4 much is a whole other debate...

OK, I understand what you are saying now.  So let me pose a hypothesis for your original question/statement (again, not saying this will be true just throwing something out there).

 

Also the Wii U is already losing to the PS3 so I don't see how a PS4 releasing is gonna help it lol...

Perhaps, if the PS4 is priced high enough, say 450-500, it will showcase the Wii U as a middle ground and not overpriced.  Right now the Wii U is the most expensive kid on the block.  With not many "big hitter" games, and crappy ports, it seems almost overpriced to a much more mature ps3/360.  You're paying for the tablet addition, but not many game showcase it yet...

However, with the release of the next xbox and PS4, pricing will shift.  People will have something more expensive to compare the Wii U to, almost like a reference point.  Just a thought.  Yeah the graphics will be more polished etc, but that will come at a premium.  And the controller will still not be a tablet.


Let's say the Wii U is dropped to $250 and the PS4 is $400-450.  That will still leave the PS3 likely at $200.  An extra $50 for less capacity, worse online gaming, a FAR smaller library, and a tablet controller.  

That is the inherant problem with the Wii U: It is a trade-off, and not an upgrade.  It does not deserve a price premium over the PS360.

Meanwhile the PS4 is an extra $200 for over 10x the horsepower, larger capacity, newer and more games, lightyears better onine capabilities (Background downloading, sharing,  play while downloading), and the ability to have the Vita do everything and more that the Wii U's tablet can (If you own one, or if you want to upgrade down the line).  The PS4 is a clear upgrade over this gen, and that is why people will justify its purchase.  

 

P.S.  I  will say that I am worried about how well this gen will do for all 3, but still the Wii U was a year or two too late to the party, and Nintendo is gonna have rougher times ahead if they don't completely relaunch it...

I see your concerns, but I bolded some things I don't get.  

Worse online gaming comparing Wii U to PS3 or do you mean xbox 360?

PS4 will also have a small library when it releases.

 

I see where you are coming from, but you are being REALLY pessimisting on the Wii U and REALLY optomistic for the PS4.  I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.  



Heavenly_King on 09 May 2013

I expect 399 and 499



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bananaking21 on 09 May 2013
Viper1 said:
bananaking21 said:
kupomogli said:
FrancisNobleman said:

If PS4 pulls vita numbers, Sony is in for major financial troubles.

Not really.  You can sell poorly and still make profit.  The Gamecube was in last place but Nintendo still profited that generation.


was their a breakdown of how much money the GC made? or could have the gameboy advanced covered the losses the GC made?

The GC took a $9 loss per unit for the first quarter at launch but was all profit after that.   Teh GBA and later the DS certainly provided a large portiion of thier profits during those years but the GC was by no means a financial flop itself.

interesting, two questions

1- but did that cover up other expenses? marketing, R&D and all the other expenses that come with selling consoles (dont know for sure what they are but i am certain there are some stuff).

2- wasnt there a major price drop at some point? did that effect profitabilty? 

im asking there questions becuase i honestly want to know, its not because i want to bash the console or relentlessly try to show that it wasnt profitable. 



Zero999 on 09 May 2013
VGKing said:

PS4 is a high-end product. I'd say $499 is reasonable for what you'll be getting. $450 would be generous of Sony and $400 would be a steal. Let's not forget that next-gen consoles aren't targeted at the mainstream. 

It all depends on the HDD size, whether or not a game is included..etc..etc. 

Ps4 is a video game and therefore 399 is expensive, 449 is too expensive and 499 is more than abusive.

just to be clear, i'm not talking about the cost of the console against the cost of components. another example: with ps3 at launch, you'd pay 499/599 for something that costs 700+. it's a great deal but it was still a videogame and that price is incredibly high for one.

considering the recession, i think 499 is the new "599" from 2006 so it is worrying when the bare minimun price we can think of is 399 wich is already expensive.



Zero999 on 09 May 2013
bananaking21 said:
Viper1 said:
bananaking21 said:
kupomogli said:
FrancisNobleman said:

If PS4 pulls vita numbers, Sony is in for major financial troubles.

Not really.  You can sell poorly and still make profit.  The Gamecube was in last place but Nintendo still profited that generation.


was their a breakdown of how much money the GC made? or could have the gameboy advanced covered the losses the GC made?

The GC took a $9 loss per unit for the first quarter at launch but was all profit after that.   Teh GBA and later the DS certainly provided a large portiion of thier profits during those years but the GC was by no means a financial flop itself.

interesting, two questions

1- but did that cover up other expenses? marketing, R&D and all the other expenses that come with selling consoles (dont know for sure what they are but i am certain there are some stuff).

2- wasnt there a major price drop at some point? did that effect profitabilty? 

im asking there questions becuase i honestly want to know, its not because i want to bash the console or relentlessly try to show that it wasnt profitable. 

nintendo 1st party's sold millions as usual and the multiplat did good too. the big price cut was 2-3 years after launch so i don't think it they took a big loss with it, if any.



DietSoap on 09 May 2013
DietSoap said:
Viper1 said:
DietSoap said:
Viper1 said:

The GC took a $9 loss per unit for the first quarter at launch but was all profit after that. 

They took an even bigger loss when they dropped to $99 iirc, don't know on the first price drop, but considering it was less than 6 months after launch I wouldn't doubt it.

As I said, they never took a loss again.

Source then?

 

"IGNcube: Okay. Now GameCube is selling for $99 and it's doing great. But is Nintendo losing money on each unit sold? 

Perrin: I would say that our losses are really negligible. It's such a small amount"

http://www.ign.com/articles/2004/01/15/gamecube-sales-update?page=2

 

They made up for it with software of course like they assuredly did at launch as well, but they still sold the console for a loss.

A little more on this, kind of interesting

 "It was also noted that Nintendo are currently losing 20 billion yen each year on Nintendo hardware, but that this loss will be reduced by reusing the production plants for the next generation of hardware. A closing comment was made that if Nintendo could reach an operating profit of 150 billion yen for the year, the stock price could well rise to 20000 yen (it is currently around the 12500 mark)."

http://www.the-magicbox.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9151

 

 Dates for price cuts if anyone's interested:

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Price_cuts



VGKing on 09 May 2013
TimCliveroller said:
I was hoping for something state of the art. I wanted 'em to take risks. I can't take pride if they indirectly admit defeat. I want something that is "exclusive" technology wise for at least a few months after launch. I don't give af if they profit or not.

You do realize that if Sony repeats the PS3s mistakes that would be not only the end of Playstation, but the end of Sony, right?
PS4 will be state of the art. Compare it to the Wii U or to the next Xbox. The technology IS THERE. Just because it isn't state of the art, it doesn't mean it won't impress you or that it won't blow away the other consoles.