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Forums - Microsoft - Xbox 720 is going to be killer.

Mr Puggsly on 03 May 2013
Veknoid_Outcast said:

Finally, I don't think competition or audience had anything to do with Rare's success in the 1990s. Rare had a group of supremely talented designers, programmers, artists, and composers. It used that talent and the IPs it borrowed from Nintendo to create some of the best software this medium has ever seen.

The competition absolutely played a role in Rare's success. It was easy for them to raise the bar at a time when it was so low. Its not like Rare was competing with the likes of Halo or Half-Life.

Even with all the amazing games created by Rare the N64 didn't exactly sell great. It seems to me Rare's games didn't move a lot of consoles, they just appealed to the Nintendo audience.

Maybe you would know this better than me. Have former employees of Rare gone to make anything particularly great? I know of Timesplitters but that was a modest success at best.

If that Rare team was as talented as you say, I'm surprised we don't hear about those former employees doing amazing games.



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Darth Tigris on 03 May 2013
Mr Puggsly said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

Finally, I don't think competition or audience had anything to do with Rare's success in the 1990s. Rare had a group of supremely talented designers, programmers, artists, and composers. It used that talent and the IPs it borrowed from Nintendo to create some of the best software this medium has ever seen.

The competition absolutely played a role in Rare's success. It was easy for them to raise the bar at a time when it was so low. Its not like Rare was competing with the likes of Halo or Half-Life.

Even with all the amazing games created by Rare the N64 didn't exactly sell great. It seems to me Rare's games didn't move a lot of consoles, they just appealed to the Nintendo audience.

Maybe you would know this better than me. Have former employees of Rare gone to make anything particularly great? I know of Timesplitters but that was a modest success at best.

If that Rare team was as talented as you say, I'm surprised we don't hear about those former employees doing amazing games.

Hey, I've been reading this back and forth and I just gotta say ....... you are friggin' nailing it, man.  The Myth of Rare gets told so much that people believe it.  It panders to console wars and nostalgia-poisoned revisionist history.  Thank you for your refreshingly realistic commentary here.



NinjaHanzo on 03 May 2013

Halo 5
Gears of war 4
Forza 5

Wow, i didnt see that coming.



Jega on 03 May 2013
NinjaHanzo said:
Halo 5
Gears of war 4
Forza 5

Wow, i didnt see that coming.

Of course you didn't see those coming.

But you saw the obvious ones like:

Ryse

Respawn game (Call of Duty Devs)

2 New Ips that could be big.

But I guess you don't see things the way I do.

 



 



NinjaHanzo on 03 May 2013
Jega said:

Of course you didn't see those coming.

But you saw the obvious ones like:

Ryse

Respawn game (Call of Duty Devs)

2 New Ips that could be big.

But I guess you don't see things the way I do.


Ryse isn't just obvious, it is also a game we was waiting for 360.

And yeah, i have already seen enough with Microsoft and 360. (Very few new Ip's, and so much explotation of the comercial ones)

At this point i prefeer Sony by far.

So in my opinion, as long as Microsoft dosn't try to get a good bunch of First Parties Studios the only thing which may be "kill" is their own consoles.

Anyways... i will watch the presentation of the Xbox 720, just in case they have a really big surprise.



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Mr Puggsly on 03 May 2013
Darth Tigris said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

Finally, I don't think competition or audience had anything to do with Rare's success in the 1990s. Rare had a group of supremely talented designers, programmers, artists, and composers. It used that talent and the IPs it borrowed from Nintendo to create some of the best software this medium has ever seen.

The competition absolutely played a role in Rare's success. It was easy for them to raise the bar at a time when it was so low. Its not like Rare was competing with the likes of Halo or Half-Life.

Even with all the amazing games created by Rare the N64 didn't exactly sell great. It seems to me Rare's games didn't move a lot of consoles, they just appealed to the Nintendo audience.

Maybe you would know this better than me. Have former employees of Rare gone to make anything particularly great? I know of Timesplitters but that was a modest success at best.

If that Rare team was as talented as you say, I'm surprised we don't hear about those former employees doing amazing games.

Hey, I've been reading this back and forth and I just gotta say ....... you are friggin' nailing it, man.  The Myth of Rare gets told so much that people believe it.  It panders to console wars and nostalgia-poisoned revisionist history.  Thank you for your refreshingly realistic commentary here.

I won't deny MS could have better utilized classic Rare IPs. But the notion that the old team could have made games the Xbox audience would buy in droves is unfounded.

The only thing we know for certain is the old Rare team knew how to make games Nintendo fans enjoyed. But even with that said, Nintendo has a ton of money but we don't see them working with the old Rare team.

If MS wanted to resurrect some classic Rare IPs, they don't need the old Rare team to do it. Just like NIntendo didn't need Rare to make Donkey Kong Country Returns a success. And just like MS didn't need Bungie to keep Halo successful.



Recently Completed: 
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Michael-5 on 04 May 2013
Wright said:
Michael-5 said:

Keep on eye on Perfect Dark?


No. I've said Dark.

 

Why?



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Michael-5 on 04 May 2013
Jega said:
NinjaHanzo said:
Halo 5
Gears of war 4
Forza 5

Wow, i didnt see that coming.

Of course you didn't see those coming.

But you saw the obvious ones like:

Ryse

Respawn game (Call of Duty Devs)

2 New Ips that could be big.

But I guess you don't see things the way I do.

LOL 2 new IP's that "could be big" When was the last time a new exclusive IP, or even a reintroduced franchise (Like Banjo Kazooie, or Conker) was big?

the last big new IP's I saw were Alan Wake, Lost Odyssey, and Gears of War, and that's for the most part, all the new IP's on the 360



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Veknoid_Outcast on 04 May 2013
Mr Puggsly said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

Finally, I don't think competition or audience had anything to do with Rare's success in the 1990s. Rare had a group of supremely talented designers, programmers, artists, and composers. It used that talent and the IPs it borrowed from Nintendo to create some of the best software this medium has ever seen.

The competition absolutely played a role in Rare's success. It was easy for them to raise the bar at a time when it was so low. Its not like Rare was competing with the likes of Halo or Half-Life.

Even with all the amazing games created by Rare the N64 didn't exactly sell great. It seems to me Rare's games didn't move a lot of consoles, they just appealed to the Nintendo audience.

Maybe you would know this better than me. Have former employees of Rare gone to make anything particularly great? I know of Timesplitters but that was a modest success at best.

If that Rare team was as talented as you say, I'm surprised we don't hear about those former employees doing amazing games.

Well, I guess we have to agree to disagree about that. I don't think the bar was low at all. Rare created its great games during a golden age of game design. I really can't see how the fourth and fifth generations could be called anything else. Final Fantasy III, Super Metroid, Super Street Fighter II, Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64, Final Fantasy VII, Metal Gear Solid, Tomb Raider, Gran Turismo, Panzer Dragoon, etc. --- these are the games that set the bar, and Rare games consistently matched them.

I guess we just have to agree to disagree, because we'll never come to any soft of reconciliation here. I think Rare's games on the SNES, N64, and in the arcades were some of the best ever. You think they're overrated. I don't imagine either of us will be convinced otherwise.



Mr Puggsly on 04 May 2013
Veknoid_Outcast said:
Mr Puggsly said:
Veknoid_Outcast said:

Finally, I don't think competition or audience had anything to do with Rare's success in the 1990s. Rare had a group of supremely talented designers, programmers, artists, and composers. It used that talent and the IPs it borrowed from Nintendo to create some of the best software this medium has ever seen.

The competition absolutely played a role in Rare's success. It was easy for them to raise the bar at a time when it was so low. Its not like Rare was competing with the likes of Halo or Half-Life.

Even with all the amazing games created by Rare the N64 didn't exactly sell great. It seems to me Rare's games didn't move a lot of consoles, they just appealed to the Nintendo audience.

Maybe you would know this better than me. Have former employees of Rare gone to make anything particularly great? I know of Timesplitters but that was a modest success at best.

If that Rare team was as talented as you say, I'm surprised we don't hear about those former employees doing amazing games.

Well, I guess we have to agree to disagree about that. I don't think the bar was low at all. Rare created its great games during a golden age of game design. I really can't see how the fourth and fifth generations could be called anything else. Final Fantasy III, Super Metroid, Super Street Fighter II, Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64, Final Fantasy VII, Metal Gear Solid, Tomb Raider, Gran Turismo, Panzer Dragoon, etc. --- these are the games that set the bar, and Rare games consistently matched them.

I guess we just have to agree to disagree, because we'll never come to any soft of reconciliation here. I think Rare's games on the SNES, N64, and in the arcades were some of the best ever. You think they're overrated. I don't imagine either of us will be convinced otherwise.

What do you mean Rare matched those games? Rare made similar games to what Nintendo was doing, but they didn't make anything comparable to most of those IPs you mentioned. Rare didn't make anything that matches Street Fighter, Gran Turismo, Tomb Raider, Metal Gear Solid, and Final Fantasy.

Once again, just because Rare was capable of making some cutting edge games in the 90s doesn't mean they knew how to cater to modern audiences.

We didn't see former employees of Rare making big hits after leaving Rare. Their last game with Nintendo wasn't considered great either. It was just another platformer that sold well because of Nintendo's audience.



Recently Completed: 
River City: Rival Showdown for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)