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Forums - Sony - Sony: upping FY operating income, net income and sales

neerdowell said:
Okay, so I'm too lazy and too short on time to go looking up the details, but isn't the revenue from Sony selling buildings $2 billion, which would make the actual profit from them significantly less. Which would also mean the $1.5 billion dollar loss is way off as well?


If 2 billion is the amount they got payed for the buildings then yes. Only the diference betwen what they sold them for and how much value they had in the books (profit) has any effect on the earnings.

I don't know which of those the 2 billion figure represents and i'm also to lazy to look it up.

 

Edit: ok i just realized i wrote the same thing as you....



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huiii said:


Never heard of accounting have you?

Yes they do have to pay for it. What do they pay with? Money. Money in the balancesheet is under assets. If the transaction takes place they swap money for the ownership of gaikai or whatever and where does that show up? under assets as well. 

No touching the earningreport and so haveing no influence on profit or loss since that is calculated in the earning report.

KingofTrolls indeed.


I do. 

Money in your pocket is not the same as assets. This is called financial liquidity.

If u are in financial trouble, dont buy many things and save money. Sony bought so many assets and it only proves that they are in not big trouble.

Liquidity and Companies
One last understanding of liquidity is especially important for investors: the liquidity of companies that we may wish to invest in.

Cash is a company's lifeblood. In other words, a company can sell lots of widgets and have good netearnings, but if it can't collect the actual cash from its customers on a timely basis, it will soon fold up, unable to pay its own obligations. (To read more, check out The Essentials Of Cash Flow andSpotting Cash Cows.)

Several ratios look at how easily a company can meet its current obligations. One of these is thecurrent ratio, which compares the level of current assets to current liabilities. Remember that in this context, "current" means collectible or payable within one year. Depending on the industry, companies with good liquidity will usually have a current ratio of more than two. This shows that a company has the resources on hand to meet its obligations and is less likely to borrow money or enter bankruptcy. 

A more stringent measure is the quick ratio, sometimes called the acid test ratio. This uses current assets (excluding inventory) and compares them to current liabilities. Inventory is removed because, of the various current assets such as cash, short-term investments or accounts receivable, this is the most difficult to convert into cash. A value of greater than one is usually considered good from a liquidity viewpoint, but this is industry dependent. (To read more, see The Dynamic Current Ratio andAnalyze Investments Quickly With Ratios.)

One last ratio of note is the debt/equity ratio, usually defined as total liabilities divided bystockholders' equity. While this does not measure a company's liquidity directly, it is related. Generally, companies with a higher debt/equity ratio will be less liquid, as more of their available cash must be used to service and reduce the debt. This leaves less cash for other purposes.

Bottom Line
Liquidity is important for both individuals and companies. While a person may be rich in terms of total value of assets owned, that person may also end up in trouble if he or she is unable to convert those assets into cash. The same holds true for companies. Without cash coming in the door, they can quickly get into trouble with their creditors. Banks are important for both groups, providing financial intermediation between those who need cash and those who can offer it, thus keeping the cash flowing. An understanding of the liquidity of a company's stock within the market helps investors judge when to buy or sell shares. Finally, an understanding of a company's own liquidity helps investors avoid those that might run into trouble in the near future. 

 

 

Investopedia.com indeed.



kowenicki said:
huiii said:
neerdowell said:
Okay, so I'm too lazy and too short on time to go looking up the details, but isn't the revenue from Sony selling buildings $2 billion, which would make the actual profit from them significantly less. Which would also mean the $1.5 billion dollar loss is way off as well?


If 2 billion is the amount they got payed for the buildings then yes. Only the diference betwen what they sold them for and how much value they had in the books (profit) has any effect on the earnings.

I don't know which of those the 2 billion figure represents and i'm also to lazy to look it up.

 

Edit: ok i just realized i wrote the same thing as you....


Profit was about 1bn for the building I think... plus .5bn for other assets sold.

Ouch, then this really isn't good news at all. It really makes me wonder where all of Sony's money goes. From a sales and revenue standpoint, Sony still brings in considerable amounts of revenue. I simply can't see why their profit margin is always so small.



How do you breathe again?

KingofTrolls said:
huiii said:


Never heard of accounting have you?

Yes they do have to pay for it. What do they pay with? Money. Money in the balancesheet is under assets. If the transaction takes place they swap money for the ownership of gaikai or whatever and where does that show up? under assets as well. 

No touching the earningreport and so haveing no influence on profit or loss since that is calculated in the earning report.

KingofTrolls indeed.


I do. 

Money in your pocket is not the same as assets. This is called financial liquidity.

If u are in financial trouble, dont buy many things and save money. Sony bought so many assets and it only proves that they are in not big trouble.

Text  

Wow no you don't.
The balance sheet has two basic parts, assets and liabilities. 

Now may i ask under which section the "money in you poket aka. financial liquidity"  apears?
Money you have in the bank as well as corporations you have a share of, both are listed under assets.

The earnings are calculated not on the balance sheet but on the earning report and the transactions of investing apear nowhere on there and so have no influence on them.

That text you probably didn't even read has absolutely nothing to do with what we were discussing.



KingofTrolls said:
huiii said:

I'm not trying to jump in on the argument betwen you and kowen (in fact i agree that restructuring is costly and the effects of it are only seen later on) but buying anything (gaikai, emi, sony- ericson, whatever) has no effect on earnings whatsoever. It's a simple excange of assets and doesn't touch the earning report, so it doesn't affect loss or profit.

I see a lot of people on here makeing that mistake so i thought i'd try to clear that up.

Oh God,
When you buy something, you have to pay for it. Money does not come from nowhere. This is not a simple exchange of assets but investing.

 Sony bought Gaikai for $ 300 million, but that does not mean that Gaikai is worth exactly $ 300 million. This does not mean that Sony is swapped with Gaikai 300 million dollars. This means that Sony has paid the owner Gaikai  - but instead gained ownership of Gaikai. Ownership of Gaikai is worth, for Sony, 300 million dollars. This is the basis of investment - in order to win, you have to put money first.

When an acquisition is made, it's cash that takes the main hit and not profit. 



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kowenicki said:
huiii said:
neerdowell said:
Okay, so I'm too lazy and too short on time to go looking up the details, but isn't the revenue from Sony selling buildings $2 billion, which would make the actual profit from them significantly less. Which would also mean the $1.5 billion dollar loss is way off as well?


If 2 billion is the amount they got payed for the buildings then yes. Only the diference betwen what they sold them for and how much value they had in the books (profit) has any effect on the earnings.

I don't know which of those the 2 billion figure represents and i'm also to lazy to look it up.

 

Edit: ok i just realized i wrote the same thing as you....


Profit was about 1bn for the building I think... plus .5bn for other assets sold.


Thanks, couldn't be bothered to look it up.

Honestly i still cant wrap my head around why they're doing the whole asset selling thing. If they wanted to pretty up their results couldn't they just have reevaluated them? Probably not to this extent but still and it would have been easier to cover up.
It's not like it's gonna give them anything if they post an artificeal profit... especially if the whole world knows it's artificial.

The only reason i can come up with is chash flow problems and if that's the case then it's really bad news... then again 2-3 billions of freed up assets would  bit extreme for that... 



huiii said:
kowenicki said:
huiii said:
neerdowell said:
Okay, so I'm too lazy and too short on time to go looking up the details, but isn't the revenue from Sony selling buildings $2 billion, which would make the actual profit from them significantly less. Which would also mean the $1.5 billion dollar loss is way off as well?


If 2 billion is the amount they got payed for the buildings then yes. Only the diference betwen what they sold them for and how much value they had in the books (profit) has any effect on the earnings.

I don't know which of those the 2 billion figure represents and i'm also to lazy to look it up.

 

Edit: ok i just realized i wrote the same thing as you....


Profit was about 1bn for the building I think... plus .5bn for other assets sold.


Thanks, couldn't be bothered to look it up.

Honestly i still cant wrap my head around why they're doing the whole asset selling thing. If they wanted to pretty up their results couldn't they just have reevaluated them? Probably not to this extent but still and it would have been easier to cover up.
It's not like it's gonna give them anything if they post an artificeal profit... especially if the whole world knows it's artificial.

The only reason i can come up with is chash flow problems and if that's the case then it's really bad news... then again 2-3 billions of freed up assets would  bit extreme for that... 

Re-evaluating assets won't affect profit.

I think honestly it was the right thing to do to sell up and rent out. They need to muster up a bit of confidence again after so many losses. Next 2 years are critical imo.



huiii said:

Wow no you don't.
The balance sheet has two basic parts, assets and liabilities. 

Now may i ask under which section the "money in you poket aka. financial liquidity"  apears?
Money you have in the bank as well as corporations you have a share of, both are listed under assets.

The earnings are calculated, not on the balance sheet but on the earnings report, and the transactions of investing apear nowhere on there and so have no influence on them.

That text you probably didn't even read has absolutely nothing to do with what we were discussing.

I have read the text, and it shows that if you have no money, you have no income, you only debt, then do not buy the company for $ 380 million, do not show the new console, just sell what you can and you save what you can. Apparently Sony does not have to do that. Investments are not included in the reports, missed that part of the text, it's my fault. I'm sorry, I was wrong. But humanly speaking, if Sony is in trouble should not think about the next generation of consoles or buying a new business, but saving what they can. Sony does not do that and it's only thwarted.
I dont even care about this earnings report, Im talkin about whole situation.



Esmicksee said:
huiii said:
kowenicki said:
huiii said:
neerdowell said:
Okay, so I'm too lazy and too short on time to go looking up the details, but isn't the revenue from Sony selling buildings $2 billion, which would make the actual profit from them significantly less. Which would also mean the $1.5 billion dollar loss is way off as well?


If 2 billion is the amount they got payed for the buildings then yes. Only the diference betwen what they sold them for and how much value they had in the books (profit) has any effect on the earnings.

I don't know which of those the 2 billion figure represents and i'm also to lazy to look it up.

 

Edit: ok i just realized i wrote the same thing as you....


Profit was about 1bn for the building I think... plus .5bn for other assets sold.


Thanks, couldn't be bothered to look it up.

Honestly i still cant wrap my head around why they're doing the whole asset selling thing. If they wanted to pretty up their results couldn't they just have reevaluated them? Probably not to this extent but still and it would have been easier to cover up.
It's not like it's gonna give them anything if they post an artificeal profit... especially if the whole world knows it's artificial.

The only reason i can come up with is chash flow problems and if that's the case then it's really bad news... then again 2-3 billions of freed up assets would  bit extreme for that... 

Re-evaluating assets won't affect profit.

I think honestly it was the right thing to do to sell up and rent out. They need to muster up a bit of confidence again after so many losses. Next 2 years are critical imo.

Huh? it does (or i'm haveing a knot in my brain). What's the counter account (is that the right word in english?) for the value added? I mean where does the aditional vale go? should be "extrordinary profit" or something shouldn't it?

Well maby it was. I'm all for selling assets if it helps them focus on something. and i agree the next 2 years are critical.



huiii said:
Esmicksee said:
huiii said:
kowenicki said:
huiii said:
neerdowell said:
Okay, so I'm too lazy and too short on time to go looking up the details, but isn't the revenue from Sony selling buildings $2 billion, which would make the actual profit from them significantly less. Which would also mean the $1.5 billion dollar loss is way off as well?


If 2 billion is the amount they got payed for the buildings then yes. Only the diference betwen what they sold them for and how much value they had in the books (profit) has any effect on the earnings.

I don't know which of those the 2 billion figure represents and i'm also to lazy to look it up.

 

Edit: ok i just realized i wrote the same thing as you....


Profit was about 1bn for the building I think... plus .5bn for other assets sold.


Thanks, couldn't be bothered to look it up.

Honestly i still cant wrap my head around why they're doing the whole asset selling thing. If they wanted to pretty up their results couldn't they just have reevaluated them? Probably not to this extent but still and it would have been easier to cover up.
It's not like it's gonna give them anything if they post an artificeal profit... especially if the whole world knows it's artificial.

The only reason i can come up with is chash flow problems and if that's the case then it's really bad news... then again 2-3 billions of freed up assets would  bit extreme for that... 

Re-evaluating assets won't affect profit.

I think honestly it was the right thing to do to sell up and rent out. They need to muster up a bit of confidence again after so many losses. Next 2 years are critical imo.

Huh? it does (or i'm haveing a knot in my brain). What's the counter account (is that the right word in english?) for the value added? I mean where does the aditional vale go? should be "extrordinary profit" or something shouldn't it?

Well maby it was. I'm all for selling assets if it helps them focus on something. and i agree the next 2 years are critical.

If you have a building down as £100m, and the valuer says its worth £140m:

Assets increases by £40m (Debit Propery, Plant, Equip)

Capital increases by £40m (Credit the revalutaion reserve).

Yea... if they return to profit shortly, then it'll be alright. If they don't, they'll need to downsize/take more radical measures. Think it all depends on whether they can fix their TV division.