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Forums - Sony - Realtime Ray Tracing in Killzone Shadow Fall

walsufnir on 23 April 2013
JoeTheBro said:
Kynes said:
Chark said:
No one is claiming it as a buzzword. Anyone who knows what ray tracing is will know the quality of it, those who don't will just know that it is a light rendering that resembles real lighting reflection, which is what is being utilized now. It's a big advancement from gen to gen. Lighting techniques are important


There are tons of different quality levels at raytracing, and you can do at the entire rendering pipeline or only sub-parts of it. That's what some of us are saying, that this is a low quality, low performance requirements version of raytracing already used on several games. It's like saying that one game that uses a subsurface scattering algorithm is doing raytracing, it's true for the subsurface scattered material, but it's false for everything else. Graphics are always doing the most with the less resources, this is a nice approximation, but it's not raytracing on the entire rendering pipeline.

Some PS fans will use it as a system wars weapon, but it's a half truth (the best way to spread lies is to use half truths) and a PR buzzword.

We already have 8GB GDDR5. Only actual nerds who know what RT is would bother to use it in console wars. 


No the actual nerds would know what RT is and wouldn't dare to use it as in console wars because they know what lies behind it.



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Pemalite on 23 April 2013
JoeTheBro said:

We already have 8GB GDDR5. Only actual nerds who know what RT is would bother to use it in console wars. 


The 8Gb of ram would do squat for Ray Tracing or Radiosity, they're more compute than memory bound. :)




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

HoloDust on 23 April 2013
Pemalite said:


The 8Gb of ram would do squat for Ray Tracing or Radiosity, they're more compute than memory bound. :)


I was under the impression that techniques such as SVO cone casting require lot of memory...but I might be completely wrong...



Chark on 23 April 2013
Kynes said:
Chark said:
No one is claiming it as a buzzword. Anyone who knows what ray tracing is will know the quality of it, those who don't will just know that it is a light rendering that resembles real lighting reflection, which is what is being utilized now. It's a big advancement from gen to gen. Lighting techniques are important


There are tons of different quality levels at raytracing, and you can do at the entire rendering pipeline or only sub-parts of it. That's what some of us are saying, that this is a low quality, low performance requirements version of raytracing already used on several games. It's like saying that one game that uses a subsurface scattering algorithm is doing raytracing, it's true for the subsurface scattered material, but it's false for everything else. Graphics are always doing the most with the less resources, this is a nice approximation, but it's not raytracing on the entire rendering pipeline.

Some PS fans will use it as a system wars weapon, but it's a half truth (the best way to spread lies is to use half truths) and a PR buzzword.

I know the quality differentials. I'm just upset this thread is getting bombarded with a bunch of premeptive BS



Before the PS3 everyone was nice to me :(

Kynes on 23 April 2013
Chark said:
Kynes said:
Chark said:
No one is claiming it as a buzzword. Anyone who knows what ray tracing is will know the quality of it, those who don't will just know that it is a light rendering that resembles real lighting reflection, which is what is being utilized now. It's a big advancement from gen to gen. Lighting techniques are important


There are tons of different quality levels at raytracing, and you can do at the entire rendering pipeline or only sub-parts of it. That's what some of us are saying, that this is a low quality, low performance requirements version of raytracing already used on several games. It's like saying that one game that uses a subsurface scattering algorithm is doing raytracing, it's true for the subsurface scattered material, but it's false for everything else. Graphics are always doing the most with the less resources, this is a nice approximation, but it's not raytracing on the entire rendering pipeline.

Some PS fans will use it as a system wars weapon, but it's a half truth (the best way to spread lies is to use half truths) and a PR buzzword.

I know the quality differentials. I'm just upset this thread is getting bombarded with a bunch of premeptive BS


So you are telling us that we should stay quiet while Ethomaz copy-pastes half-truths, denied two posts later on the same thread he links? That's a good way to spread misinformation, but it seems that some people don't want anyone to stop the circle jerking.

Let me guess, we should have left the thread to people saying "amazing" "Sony powa" and "PS4 rulez" and don't discuss the technical aspects, right?



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walsufnir on 23 April 2013
Kynes said:
Chark said:
Kynes said:
Chark said:
No one is claiming it as a buzzword. Anyone who knows what ray tracing is will know the quality of it, those who don't will just know that it is a light rendering that resembles real lighting reflection, which is what is being utilized now. It's a big advancement from gen to gen. Lighting techniques are important


There are tons of different quality levels at raytracing, and you can do at the entire rendering pipeline or only sub-parts of it. That's what some of us are saying, that this is a low quality, low performance requirements version of raytracing already used on several games. It's like saying that one game that uses a subsurface scattering algorithm is doing raytracing, it's true for the subsurface scattered material, but it's false for everything else. Graphics are always doing the most with the less resources, this is a nice approximation, but it's not raytracing on the entire rendering pipeline.

Some PS fans will use it as a system wars weapon, but it's a half truth (the best way to spread lies is to use half truths) and a PR buzzword.

I know the quality differentials. I'm just upset this thread is getting bombarded with a bunch of premeptive BS


So you are telling us that we should stay quiet while Ethomaz copy-pastes half-truths, denied two posts later on the same thread he links? That's a good way to spread misinformation, but it seems that some people don't want anyone to stop the circle jerking.

Let me guess, we should have left the thread to people saying "amazing" "Sony powa" and "PS4 rulez" and don't discuss the technical aspects, right?

I remember last year when the first rumors came up that PS4 will support 4k and a lot of people were hyped for the massive power of PS4 because of games at 4k - the information wasn't false but considering gamers the info was just misleading.



KingofTrolls on 23 April 2013

Video from  my country :D I will watch it later and post what they talked about.

In a nutshell, the new method allows you to create universal 3D models that look good in any lighting condition. Drobot said that Guerrilla Games has in store for another, undisclosed project. He revealed only that it was a new thing on the PlayStation 4.

http://www.gry-online.pl/S018.asp?ID=916&STR=4

 



ethomaz on 23 April 2013

Kynes said:

So you are telling us that we should stay quiet while Ethomaz copy-pastes half-truths, denied two posts later on the same thread he links? That's a good way to spread misinformation, but it seems that some people don't want anyone to stop the circle jerking.

Let me guess, we should have left the thread to people saying "amazing" "Sony powa" and "PS4 rulez" and don't discuss the technical aspects, right?

Half-truth? Sorry but there is only truth in this thread... they are using Ray-tracing in Shadown Fall for real time reflection... Crysis 2 and Crysis 3 did the same... so what you point saying half-truth? Because that don't exists... or something is truth or not lol.



Kynes on 23 April 2013
ethomaz said:

Kynes said:

So you are telling us that we should stay quiet while Ethomaz copy-pastes half-truths, denied two posts later on the same thread he links? That's a good way to spread misinformation, but it seems that some people don't want anyone to stop the circle jerking.

Let me guess, we should have left the thread to people saying "amazing" "Sony powa" and "PS4 rulez" and don't discuss the technical aspects, right?

Half-truth? Sorry but there is only truth in this thread... they are using Ray-tracing in Shadown Fall for real time reflection... Crysis 2 and Crysis 3 did the same... so what you point saying half-truth? Because that don't exists... or something is truth or not lol.

Calling ray tracing to this approximation is misleading, but it seems that you are ok with being mislead by Sony developers. It's like saying the 2004 ATI X800 subsurface scattering demo is raytraced, because they used an approximation with depth maps to raytracing on translucent surfaces. I know you like your PR catchphrases, but anyone with a bit of knowledge can smell the bullshit from a distance.

 

 

"it is definitely misleading when the idea of a ray-based renderer, the wonderful future tech of tomorrow-land, is being talked about in use now. Without a reason to develop some new naming convention for non-intersect straight line evaluations and whatever approximations and shortcuts there are, I expect the confusion to escalate."



ethomaz on 23 April 2013

Kynes said:

Calling ray tracing to this approximation is misleading, but it seems that you are ok with being mislead by Sony developers. It's like saying the 2004 ATI X800 subsurface scattering demo is raytraced, because they used an approximation with depth maps to raytracing on translucent surfaces. I know you like your PR catchphrases, but anyone with a bit of knowledge can smell the bullshit from a distance.

"it is definitely misleading when the idea of a ray-based renderer, the wonderful future tech of tomorrow-land, is being talked about in use now. Without a reason to develop some new naming convention for non-intersect straight line evaluations and whatever approximations and shortcuts there are, I expect the confusion to escalate."

Oh God... it is not PR... it is a developer session.

There are no bullshit in this video or news... there are using ray-tracing in real time reflexion... the OP is pretty clear about that... Crysis 2/3 use that for the same purpose too... nobody thinks anything more is using ray-tracing or all the game in rendered using ray-tracing.

There are no confusion here... please stop.