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Forums - Gaming - How does the 3DS compare to the PSP, power wise?

brendude13 said:
RazorDragon said:

15.3M polygons/sec is for the 2006 version at 200MHz. Here are the specs for the 2008 ver.(65nm), which clocks in about 40M Tri/sec at 400MHz: http://people.csail.mit.edu/kapu/EG_08/Mobile3D_EG08.pdf

Also, no doubt it's running lower than 400MHz. The maximum allowed core frequency is almost never used in portable devices because of heat and battery issues. About the CPU, nobody knows. I find it quite hard to be two ARM11's at 266(and with one being used to wireless functions, so pretty much only 1 core for graphics), since the graphics shown on the 3DS absolutely wouldn't be possible with such an old chip clocked that low. ARM11's can go up to 1GHz, I don't even believe it's possible to underclock one as low as 266MHz.

http://www.dmprof.com/english/e_products/e_pica_200/

Tadaa. Surprised I didn't think of that before, checking DMP's website. If 3DSbrew is right about the 3DS's GPU clock core, then it will be achieving around 20M polygons/sec, about the same as the Gamecube I believe.

Still not sure about the CPU. Early reports before the 3DS was released said it was either two ARM11's or a dual core ARM11 at 266Mhz, I've seen other "sources" that say it's higher than that though.


DMP's site may not be up to date at all since these specs are the same from 2006, when the GPU was made, and it seems that the GPU was upgraded based on the 2008 presentation.

About 3DSbrew, I find it hard to believe these specs are true since this site came out of nowhere with info that also came out of nowhere. Also, thanks to hinch's post, it seems that the lowest possible clock for an ARM11 is 350MHz. Makes no sense to me go beyond that and underclock the CPU lower than the lowest possible.



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RazorDragon said:
brendude13 said:
RazorDragon said:

15.3M polygons/sec is for the 2006 version at 200MHz. Here are the specs for the 2008 ver.(65nm), which clocks in about 40M Tri/sec at 400MHz: http://people.csail.mit.edu/kapu/EG_08/Mobile3D_EG08.pdf

Also, no doubt it's running lower than 400MHz. The maximum allowed core frequency is almost never used in portable devices because of heat and battery issues. About the CPU, nobody knows. I find it quite hard to be two ARM11's at 266(and with one being used to wireless functions, so pretty much only 1 core for graphics), since the graphics shown on the 3DS absolutely wouldn't be possible with such an old chip clocked that low. ARM11's can go up to 1GHz, I don't even believe it's possible to underclock one as low as 266MHz.

http://www.dmprof.com/english/e_products/e_pica_200/

Tadaa. Surprised I didn't think of that before, checking DMP's website. If 3DSbrew is right about the 3DS's GPU clock core, then it will be achieving around 20M polygons/sec, about the same as the Gamecube I believe.

Still not sure about the CPU. Early reports before the 3DS was released said it was either two ARM11's or a dual core ARM11 at 266Mhz, I've seen other "sources" that say it's higher than that though.


DMP's site may not be up to date at all since these specs are the same from 2006, when the GPU was made, and it seems that the GPU was upgraded based on the 2008 presentation.

About 3DSbrew, I find it hard to believe these specs are true since this site came out of nowhere with info that also came out of nowhere. Also, thanks to hinch's post, it seems that the lowest possible clock for an ARM11 is 350MHz. Makes no sense to me go beyond that and underclock the CPU lower than the lowest possible.

And yet everyone in the world keeps quoting that BS site LOL.

well this seems to be the best current info maybe. I'm starting to think that it is underclock at 400 MHz a core with its 4-core CPU (ARM11). And this CPU having more problems then previous ARMs seems to have been discover in Firmware 5.0.0-11 update and fixed within a week with Firmware 5.1.0-11

 

Heres the info:

 

ARM11

 

Differences from ARM9

In terms of instruction set, the ARM11 builds on the preceding ARM9 generation. It incorporates all ARM926EJ-S features and adds the ARMv6 instructions for media support (SIMD) and accelerating IRQ response.

Microarchitecture improvements in ARM11 cores[2] include:

  • SIMD instructions which can double MPEG-4 and audio digital signal processing algorithm speed
  • Cache is physically addressed, solving many cache aliasing problems and reducing context switch overhead
  • Unaligned and mixed-endian data access is supported
  • Reduced heat production and lower overheating risk
  • Redesigned pipeline, supporting faster clock speeds (target up to 1 GHz)
    • Longer: 8 (vs 5) stages
    • Out-of-order completion for some operations (e.g. stores)
    • Dynamic branch prediction/folding (like XScale)
    • Cache misses don't block execution of non-dependent instructions
    • Load/store parallelism
    • ALU parallelism
  • 64-bit data paths

JTAG debug support (for halting, stepping, breakpoints, and watchpoints) was simplified. The EmbeddedICE module was replaced with an interface which became part of the ARMv7 architecture. The hardware tracing modules (ETM and ETB) are compatible, but updated, versions of those used in the ARM9. In particular, trace semantics were updated to address parallel instruction execution and data transfers.

ARM makes an effort to promote good Verilog coding styles and techniques. This ensures semantically rigorous designs, preserving identical semantics throughout the chip design flow, which included extensive use of formal verification techniques. Without such attention, integrating an ARM11 with third party designs could risk exposing hard-to-find latent bugs. Due to ARM cores being integrated into many different designs, using a variety of logic synthesis tools and chip manufacturing processes, the impact of its register-transfer level (RTL) quality is magnified many times.[3] The ARM11 generation focused more on synthesis than previous generations, making such concerns be more of an issue.

[edit]Cores

There are four ARM11 cores:

  • ARM1136[4]
  • ARM1156, introduced Thumb2 instructions
  • ARM1176, introduced security extensions[5]
  • ARM11MPcore, introduced multicore support

 

 

PICA200
 

Specification

  • 65 nm Single Core [7](max. clock frequency 400 MHz)
    • pixel performance: 800 Mpixel/s[7]
      • 400 Mpixel/s @100 MHz[2]
      • 1600 Mpixel/s @400 MHz
    • vertex performance: 15.3 Mpolygon/s[7]
      • 40Mtriangle/s @100 MHz[2]
      • 160Mtriangle/s @400 MHz
  • Power consumption: 0.5-1.0 mW/MHz[2]
  • Frame Buffer max. 4095×4095 pixels
  • Supported pixel formats: RGBA 4-4-4-4, RGB 5-6-5, RGBA 5-5-5-1, RGBA 8-8-8-8
  • Vertex program (ARB_vertex_program)
  • Render-to-Texture
  • MipMap
  • Bilinear texture filtering
  • Alpha blending
  • Full-scene anti-aliasing (2×2)
  • Polygon offset
  • 8-bit stencil buffer
  • 24-bit depth buffer
  • Single/Double/Triple buffer
  • DMP's MAESTRO-2G technology
    • per pixel lighting
    • procedural texture
    • refraction mapping
    • subdivision primitive
    • shadow
    • gaseous object rendering



curl-6 said:
oniyide said:
DieAppleDie said:
curl-6 said:

Retro Studios have stated that the Wii's extra power and memory allowed Prime 3 to have higher resolution textures, more polygons, bigger environments, and the addition of bloom lighting compared to what was possible on GCN. High Voltage also said that the Conduit games could do more effects at once due to the Wii's increased power over GCN.

And the Wii COD games and Xenoblade are massive memory hogs due to their large, detailed, streaming environments. The Wii had 88MB of RAM. The Gamecube had 40MB. GCN simply wouldn't have had enough memory.

And no, we are not talking about "clear gaps at launch." We were talking about graphical improvements within a system's lifespan. You then tried to derail that discussion.

Im watching side by side videos and while MP3 does look a bit better, its no where near that much different than MP2 is. Killzone 1 to Killzone2? thats a huge difference. HVS? Those hacks, the same guys that said they made an engine that would make their game look as good as PS360 FPSs those guys are liars. 

COD is memory hog? Since when? its a linear FPS, and even then they had to cut some stuff back. THere were COD games on GC. xenoblade I could see, but even then all they would have to do is reduce draw distance, its not like the game has alot of textures. There were PS2 games that looked like that.

You said there "isnt anything released on WIi that could not have been done on GC" . That is technically incorrect. Whether Prime 3 looks "that much different" to you or not, fact is it technically could not be done on the GCN. A game only has to use half of the Wii's RAM to be outside the GCN's memory budget.

COD is a memory hog because it's designed for 512MB of RAM while the Wii has 88MB. The GCN COD games ran on a simpler engine with smaller worlds and much fewer characters in play at once.



you are arguing against a wall, he doesnt want to learn, hes just messing around he must be cause its pretty obvious that Wiis best looking games such as Mario Galaxy, The last story, Metroid other M, MP3, Silent hill SM, Conduit 2, Dead space EX....etc. couldnt be done in previous generation without downgrades. I agree that WiiU still has to show up its power, but im pretty sure it will, im confident in that regard.

So even you agree that it COULD run on GC, thats what i thought. 

Is it so hard to just admit you were wrong? 

I said those games could run on the system, i never said HOW they would run. 



In the end its up to devs and their willingness to spend time and money
Specs are specs they show realtime performance on a ideal environment and well........market is not close to that...



DieAppleDie said:
In the end its up to devs and their willingness to spend time and money
Specs are specs they show realtime performance on a ideal environment and well........market is not close to that...


So the 3DS with its 40 million triangles @ 100 MHz (GPU & CPU clock @ 400 MHz a core, the ARM11 CPU is 4-core) and the PS Vita with its 35 million triangles a core (4-core GPU) is pretty much useless when developers don't put in the work.

Well with Handhelds having around 150 million triangles & 7th Gen HD Consoles having 2XX triangles, I'm not surprise to see the difference between Resident Evil: Revelations 3D vs. HD in screenshots.

And I look forward to the 3rd Resident Evil 3DS game that was in pre-production back in April 2012, but I guess its been in production for some time now, since there was a listing for Resident Evil DDD, but then it got token down. I forget what it's 3 "D's" stand for, but it's a pretty awesome name if it's the official name.



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oniyide said:

I said those games could run on the system, i never said HOW they would run. 

It's pretty clear what you were implying. You're backpedalling now because you've been called out on your misinformation.



curl-6 said:

oniyide said:

I said those games could run on the system, i never said HOW they would run. 

It's pretty clear what you were implying. You're backpedalling now because you've been called out on your misinformation.


i didnt backpedal anything or imply. What did i imply, that those games would be the same on the CUBE? No matter of fact a specifically said that draw distance would suffer in Xenoblade



oniyide said:
curl-6 said:

oniyide said:

I said those games could run on the system, i never said HOW they would run. 

It's pretty clear what you were implying. You're backpedalling now because you've been called out on your misinformation.


i didnt backpedal anything or imply. What did i imply, that those games would be the same on the CUBE? No matter of fact a specifically said that draw distance would suffer in Xenoblade

You said: "And there isnt anything released on WIi that could not have been done on GC"

The clear implication being that the Wii didn't accomplish things the GC couldn't. Well it did; Xenoblade's huge draw distances, the physics of Boom Blox, Modern Warfare 3's high enemy counts and large-scale action, Metroid Prime 3's full package of environments, textures, geometry, bloom lighting, etc.



oniyide said:
curl-6 said:

oniyide said:

I said those games could run on the system, i never said HOW they would run. 

It's pretty clear what you were implying. You're backpedalling now because you've been called out on your misinformation.


i didnt backpedal anything or imply. What did i imply, that those games would be the same on the CUBE? No matter of fact a specifically said that draw distance would suffer in Xenoblade


Draw distance is just a gimmick that takes you at least 1 to 5 seconds of your time to figure out, while the bad guys kill you in the video game.

Thats why I always play in 3D when available.

Plus live action movies don't have draw distance, so you have to watch those in 3D to just sit back and enjoy.



curl-6 said:
oniyide said:
curl-6 said:

oniyide said:

I said those games could run on the system, i never said HOW they would run. 

It's pretty clear what you were implying. You're backpedalling now because you've been called out on your misinformation.


i didnt backpedal anything or imply. What did i imply, that those games would be the same on the CUBE? No matter of fact a specifically said that draw distance would suffer in Xenoblade

You said: "And there isnt anything released on WIi that could not have been done on GC"

The clear implication being that the Wii didn't accomplish things the GC couldn't. Well it did; Xenoblade's huge draw distances, the physics of Boom Blox, Modern Warfare 3's high enemy counts and large-scale action, Metroid Prime 3's full package of environments, textures, geometry, bloom lighting, etc.

THe games could be released on GC and i stand by that, of course some things woudl have to be sacrificed like draw distance which i had stated earlier in the thread in regards to Xenoblade, but you choose to ignore that. If your saying those games could not be done at ALL on GC that makes sense, since COD games run on WIi(with alot of sacrifices) and that is coming form systems that are WAY more powerful than it. THe gap between the WIi and Gamecube is not that big