Does Xbox Live deserve the criticism it gets in the forums? | |||
| Yes Xbox Live is a rip off | 221 | 45.19% | |
| No Xbox Live is the best ... | 208 | 42.54% | |
| No opinion / don't care | 60 | 12.27% | |
| Total: | 489 | ||
| J_Allard said: Not seeing your issue. |
I noticed. It's like talking to a brick wall.
I could say the same about you.
Sorry if you don't understand that what MS does is not cheap. I mean, there's a reason it was an investment in billions. There's a reason so many companies shut their servers down after a few years :)
| J_Allard said: I could say the same about you. Sorry if you don't understand that what MS does is not cheap. I mean, there's a reason it was an investment in billions. There's a reason so many companies shut their servers down after a few years :) |
Right, but the difference is you're arguing something I never disputed. Namely, that it costs a ton of money to setup the servers for matchmaking and live itself.
I'm saying the multiplayer component is there regardless of MS interference.
Why aren't you quoting me?
It's not interference.. it's part of the service. Developers know this going in and plan accordingly. I think this is honestly why some games on PS3 do not have things like cross game invites and simple things like the ability to mute people. On PS3 these must be designed and put into the game by the developers themselves. On 360, Live takes care of it.
You asked why MS charges you to use what "already exists". I am just letting you know why. It's expensive. And they don't view the MP and Live separately as you are doing. Nor do the developers or people who use the service. I guess if you're used to PSN (or the PC to a lesser extent) where it's more of an "every game for itself" type environment where quality and features vary wildly game to game, Live is just one package. Now you can blow that explanation off but it won't change it from being right. And you can disagree but just understand you're looking at it the wrong way. Feel free to continue insulting and trying to belittle, just lets me know I am right. No point responding to this thread anymore, toodles.
| J_Allard said: It's not interference.. it's part of the service. Developers know this going in and plan accordingly. I think this is honestly why some games on PS3 do not have things like cross game invites and simple things like the ability to mute people. On PS3 these must be designed and put into the game by the developers themselves. On 360, Live takes care of it. You asked why MS charges you to use what "already exists". I am just letting you know why. It's expensive. And they don't view the MP and Live separately as you are doing. Nor do the developers or people who use the service. I guess if you're used to PSN (or the PC to a lesser extent) where it's more of an "every game for itself" type environment where quality and features vary wildly game to game, Live is just one package. Now you can blow that explanation off but it won't change it from being right. And you can disagree but just understand you're looking at it the wrong way. Feel free to continue insulting and trying to belittle, just lets me know I am right. No point responding to this thread anymore, toodles. |
The service is bereft of the networking setup by the developers - core multiplayer component.
You're talking about features in addition to that - which is what Live is.
I haven't insulted you at all.
So I guess you don't have a point in regard to the setting up of the multiplayer component? (Servers, p2p, lobby) These all are not done by MS.
| binary solo said: Who exactly hates XBL Gold? People who pay for it surely don't hate it otherwise they wouldn't pay. People who have Xbox 360's but don't pay pay for XBL Gold, some probably hate it but whatever, that was their choice to go with a console that charges for some things that others don't. No point in crying about it now. People who don't have Xbox 360s are more bemused/confused/amused by it. |
I hate it and have been paying since 2004!
I have to pay for it in order to play online, so rather than limit myself to half (or less than half in some occasions) of the games I've paid for, I have to keep subscribing.
Edit: I'll say it's not like I haven't enjoyed or had fun using Live at times, I just realize that I'm now stuck paying for it until the generation is over.
| J_Allard said: It's not interference.. it's part of the service. Developers know this going in and plan accordingly. I think this is honestly why some games on PS3 do not have things like cross game invites and simple things like the ability to mute people. On PS3 these must be designed and put into the game by the developers themselves. On 360, Live takes care of it. You asked why MS charges you to use what "already exists". I am just letting you know why. It's expensive. And they don't view the MP and Live separately as you are doing. Nor do the developers or people who use the service. I guess if you're used to PSN (or the PC to a lesser extent) where it's more of an "every game for itself" type environment where quality and features vary wildly game to game, Live is just one package. Now you can blow that explanation off but it won't change it from being right. And you can disagree but just understand you're looking at it the wrong way. Feel free to continue insulting and trying to belittle, just lets me know I am right. No point responding to this thread anymore, toodles. |
uh as someone who plays multiplayer primarily, every game i've played multiplayer for via psn has had cross game invites and mute...
what games are you talking about?
| KylieDog said: This notion that if people did not like LIVE they would stop paying for it is nonsense. There are loads of gamers who have spent a lot of money on their 360 console, games, DLC, downloadable games etc etc. The notion it is simple to just throw all that spent money away and move to PS3 is a joke, most people cannot afford to do that, and with the crappy prices you get for old trade-ins, who is going to trade in a 360 with for example 20 games and as an end result end up with a PS3 and may 1-2 new games? Not forgetting they will never get to play any of the downloaded stuff they paid for either. For a lot of people they are trapped paying for LIVE, they need keep investing in the subscription just to use their existing investments, unless they want to take massive losses on their investment in switching to another console. Most will not want to do that, or cannot afford to even if they do. I paid for LIVE for two years, but I saw the trap and cancelled my sub. Now I have a lot of downloaded content I paid for that I cannot play at all, and most of my games are now half a game or less to me because I cannot use the MP features. Taking that loss is easier for me, we are able to afford multiple consoles and we got a PS3 to play with an even bigger owned library of games. But at least we are now liberated and not forced to keep paying to use stuff we already paid for. What I lost by cancelling Gold: - MP in many games - DLC I paid XBL for already, now blocked because MP related - NOTHING else, its all free countless other methods including PS3, Wii, PC, Tablets, Smartphones etc etc |
I did the same thing, but I started selling old X-Box 360 games on PC, and you'd be surprised how much you can make. I recently sold Most Wanted for a $10 profit (I paid $15 on Black Friday, kept it for 5 months, and sold it for $30 - eBay charges).
XBLG is a rip off, but if you really wanted to, you can still play online via trials, and short term subscriptions. How often do you play online anyway? I used to only play for 3 months a year or so, and now I want to catch up on RPG's.
kain_kusanagi said:
I buy 12 Month XBL Gold cards on Amazon. Since I only need to buy them once a year I watch for sales. If there's a sale I buy one or two even if I have months left on my last card. That way I never get to the end of a XBL Gold subcription and get forced to pay full price. If I where you I wouldn't waste $10 on a 1 month card when you can get 12 month on sale. But if you can't find a sale before you need it I guess you'll be stuck. |
Eh, well it's too late now. With poor reliability, overpriced online, stupid achievements in 1st party games, Forza going downhill after FM3, Halo going to shit (I think Halo 4 is average, a bit drop from Bungie games), exclusives being ported to PC's, no new IP's, No deliverance of promised games (Ryse was suppose to be a 360 game, and what happened to MechWarrior?), overpriced consoles and overall a feeling of being milked, I've given up on Microsoft.
I don't regret my voyage to Microsoft, but I shouldn't have strayed so far from Nintendo and Sony as I did.
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J_Allard said:
So then buy them somewhere else. I rarely ever see deals for XBL on the XBL service itself. I always use Amazon or other websites. You might have played on a Wednesday before. They might have had Silver free promotions that lasted all week. Who knows. But there was never a time when Silver users were allowed 24/7 to play Halo 3 online. It was always on a promotional basis from Bungie. And they stopped because the Gold users would exploit it. So if you're gonna complain, gamers deserve your blame, not some underhanded attempt at devaluing Silver from MS. Idk what to say in regards to the cross platform games... I mean, you being unaware that they were offered for free on a limited time basis does not change the fact that they were. As far as Games for Windows vs XBL, they are not the same service.
I have no doubts that publishers ask developers or at least encourage them to include MP focused achievements/trophies in their games. And that would include MS. But they do so to entice people to hold on to the games longer and lower the number of used copies on the shelves. It's not a ploy to get people to pay for Live. The fact that they exist on a free to play platform like PSN is evidence of this. Also, trophies that require prolonged play also exists on PSN. You can blow this off "because PSN is free" if you'd like, but it shows that making people want to pay Live subscriptions is not the motive. Per usual, your complaint applies more to gaming in general and not XBL.
So you think the DLC is overpriced and the game is overpriced. Not seeing how that relates to XBLG.
1 month cards are being phased out in the US as well. You can only get them on the console itself. But LOL @ $30 for one month. If you live in Canada, why don't you just buy US cards? You get can a 3 month card for less than $30. Hell on many occasions you can get a full year for $35-40. MS doesn't control the prices of DLC unless its for their own games. Also, PC is always going to be cheaper than consoles. That's just a fact of life. DLC on either platform is still way high even years after release. Has nothing to do with XBLG. |
I know kain has said that he's bought XBLG cards on Amazon.ca for $40, but he also said he bought multiple at a time at that price. Realistically, $50 is how much they cost in Canada, you can't get them cheaper on Amazon/eBay unless you're real lucky, and again, that ignores the fact that I only play 3 months online a year. A 3 month card is still $20 at best, and $7 a month is too much.
As for Silver being removed, people did not boosts on Lost Planet online. Maybe they did on Halo, but Halo 3 was not the only game to take advantage of Silver online access. Regardless of achievement boosting, that's still not a significant enough reason to remove Silver online play. If someone is bored enough to make a second account and play mindless boring games against no one to increase exp, then let them waste their time. Why make everyone suffer just because Microsoft (the publisher) wants achievements to be hard to get?
----
It's not a ploy to get people to pay for Live
Oh bs, how come only MS brand games have achievements which require you to not only hold onto the game for a year or so, but to play it consistantly?
What PS3 exclusive game has an achievement which requires you to play online for a period of longer then 1 month? None exist. Yes there are games, PS3 exclusive and MP, which give achievements/trophies for playing x many hours online, but that's a different story, I can choose to play that game in excess over the period of a few nights and get the achievement/trophy. There are also games which require you to host x many games, but those are generally designed to keep the number of online games high.
These are completly different situations then making achievments which require you to play a game over the spand of 3 months (Halo 4) or a year (Gears 3). If you don't see this, then you are either oblivious to the fact, or just plain ignoring me.
Also regarding my post about if PS3 games do it, who cares? Who really cares, If Sony wanted to make an exclusive that required long term play, let them. PSN is free, Sony makes no $$$ off this, so there is no harm done. With XBL, there is no free option, so harm done.
------
"So you think the DLC is overpriced and the game is overpriced. Not seeing how that relates to XBLG."
I said that the game is overpriced because DLC is overpriced. How does this relate to XBLG? Microsoft blocks other developers/publishers from selling DLC at dirt cheap prices like they can on Steam by charging them a set fee per sale. Plus MS used to sell DLC at permanently reduced sale prices, and had those sales available to silver members. Now, not only are sales temporary, they are exclusive to gold subscribers, hence XBLG and MS is not what it used to be.
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"If you live in Canada, why don't you just buy US cards?"
Lot's of US cards don't work in Canada, and many sellers on eBay/Amazon don't sell US card to Canadians. Where would I get a US card that works in Canada?
XBLG is cheaper in USA then the rest of the world, but regardless, it's still more expensive then PSN and doesn't offer that much more. Why can't MS just offer a free service with similar quality to PSN and then charge for XBLG much like PSN charges for PSN +? I would much prefer that, then I have the option to play games for free with 95% of the features.
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| J_Allard said: It's not interference.. it's part of the service. Developers know this going in and plan accordingly. I think this is honestly why some games on PS3 do not have things like cross game invites and simple things like the ability to mute people. On PS3 these must be designed and put into the game by the developers themselves. On 360, Live takes care of it. You asked why MS charges you to use what "already exists". I am just letting you know why. It's expensive. And they don't view the MP and Live separately as you are doing. Nor do the developers or people who use the service. I guess if you're used to PSN (or the PC to a lesser extent) where it's more of an "every game for itself" type environment where quality and features vary wildly game to game, Live is just one package. Now you can blow that explanation off but it won't change it from being right. And you can disagree but just understand you're looking at it the wrong way. Feel free to continue insulting and trying to belittle, just lets me know I am right. No point responding to this thread anymore, toodles. |
Cross game Invites/Chat were not originally integrated into PSN, and are very difficult to add into PS3's infrastructure. However as someone with a 360, and formerly had 2.5 years of Gold, I can say that I almost never used Cross Game Invites/Chat, and if it means saving $60 a year, I can easily do without it. This is a very, very minor feature to many.
As for the rest of what you're saying, that's complete garbage. Microsoft doesn't improve the servers for 3rd party games, 3rd party developers have to make their own servers, and their own online interface. Profits from XBLG do not go and help out with developers costs, and they do not make the service any better. The money goes straight to MS, and MS does nothing to improve the online connection/quality of service.
dsgrue3 said:
Right, but the difference is you're arguing something I never disputed. Namely, that it costs a ton of money to setup the servers for matchmaking and live itself. I'm saying the multiplayer component is there regardless of MS interference. |
How does Allard not understand this?
e.g. Lost Planet used to be free for XBL Silver members. It's still free for PC and PS3 gamers. Since MS made an update removing free access to "Games for Windows" games, the quality of online matchmaking has not improved at all for Lost Planet. Games drop just as frequently, Japanese gamers still bring in lag, and nothing at all has changed. Where has my money gone? Why isn't the money I pay for XBLG improving the service?
dsgrue3 said:
I see this argument often. It isn't the price, it isn't even the total concept of Live. The package of features itself isn't the issue. The issue is paying to play online. MS does not have dedicated servers for retail games - although I'm told they have ones for XBLA ones. All MS does is enhance architecture already setup by devs. Devs use p2p or their own dedicated servers for the multiplayer component so why is MS charging you to use what already exists? |
Exactly!
Why do I have to pay Microsoft for playing 3rd party games on 3rd party servers? Why do I have to pay to integrate Kinect, or have more adds or useless features on my console? Why can't I play 360 games online for free, like I used to in 2008?
| J_Allard said: Because those games use MS servers for matchmaking and the Live features. You know, the very things that make Live online play so much better. Servers and infrastructure that MS invested billions into. |
Where are these servers for retail games like Lost Planet? For retail games, MS does absolutly nothing to improve game connections. 3rd party devs design their own P2P systems, and they recieve not funding from XBL to do this.
Why are 360 owners paying to play games online, when the service is just as good on PSN?
Allard I know you've been arguing that XBLG goes into funding XBL title updates and XBL Arcade games, but most 360 title updates are crap (all they are are ads, or integrations for Kinect), and not everyone who pays for XBLG play Arcade games. Why should people pay for features they don't want/use?
dsgrue3 said:
I noticed. It's like talking to a brick wall. |
Vegeta.....let's go SSJ on his ass.
---
Oh wait, I'm not Goku anymore. Well my Thundershock attack...is actually pretty disturbing.
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