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Forums - Politics Discussion - Universal Background Checks

theprof00 said:
Euphoria14 said:
theprof00 said:
Euphoria14 said:
theprof00 said:

But it does. It does because it helps us find out who did the crime. Without checks and security, we would never find the culprits, which would lead to conversations like "just get a gun from X, and do it, nobody will ever find out".

I think you're caught up in either semantics, or imagination land. We don't expect people to not die by guns. We expect to catch people when they do bad things, and that's what laws help to do.


When someone buys a gun from someone other than mem who has been background checked, where is that paper trail?

 

You think a person looking to commit a heinous crime, or someone in a large scale gang buys his guns from Joe Shmoe down the block?

LOL there are numerous trails. Manufacturers build in defects in designs to tell where guns came from. Serial numbers. Specific types of bullets, etc. All this info can help lead to the distributor.

 

MOST MURDERS HAPPEN BY REGULAR EVERYDAY CITIZENS. Not gang violence. Stop pointing fingers. And yes, those people DO get their guns from Joe Shmoe.

People die bro, get used to it.

Take guns away and that altercation that resulted in a gunshot will be replaced with a stab. How far will you take this fight before acknowledging that there are more important things to focus on?

Please, it's obvious to me you've never lived in a poor inner city area with that bullshit "people die bro get used to it". Sadly, I already know that. I've seen people shot, stabbed, killed, dozens of times over. I've seen people beaten to death with fists. I KNOW it's a fact of life, but it doesn't appear you do...or at least you don't really understand it.

And HuuuuuHHHHH at your conclusion. Wow, I never said that. There are obviously more important things to worry about. But don't come in here to argue if you're just gunna say "it just doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things anyway".

I've been jumped. In situations where I was shown a gun, I gave up everything I had. A knife, I ran. Kind of a big difference.


I grew up in Brentwood, Long Island, which is pretty damn crime heavy pal. I have experienced many of the same things you have. However, I wisened up and learned to understand the way things work.

 

You know how to stay out of trouble? Easy. Mind your business.



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theprof00 said:
You are all madmen!

I have a clean record, so I'm just going to buy guns and resell them to criminals where I can make double to triple what the guns are actually worth, allowing me to make lots of money without having to work for it, and hey fuck everyone else as a bonus. Not my problem.

Matter of fact, why am I not doing this already? Good idea kain.

Dude don't do it. Straw purchasing IS against the law if you file out the background check form at a FFL dealer and lie about the identity of the final possessor of the gun YOU are breaking the law. When you buy a gun at a store as a gift you have to indicate who you are gifting it to. If you buy a gun for a criminal and know that they will use it illegaly you are also breaking the law and held responsible. It's only legal if everyone involved are law abiding citizens.

But none of that stops criminals from commiting crimes or finding plenty of guns to buy on the blackmarket.

No law can prevent criminals from committing crimes.

The AK-47 is so easy to make anyone could make one with a simple machine shop and the ability to follow directions. Soon guns will come out of 3D printers as easily as my tax forms printed from my HP Inkjet. You can't stop criminals and ALL of these proposed laws would have no effect on anyone other than the 99% of gun owners who DON'T break the law.



theprof00 said:

3rd paragraph- but when have you ever encountered a person saying "if only I hadn't had to wait those three days, I could've protected my family"? How much of a nuisance to the everyday person does it really create?

I never have, admittedly, but considering how many guns are sold the possibility isn't so statistically unlikely, certainly no more so than the idea that the kind of half-assed gun control being debated is actually going to save any lives.

I think what most sticks in my craw about this is seeing a bunch of elite shitheads who have personal security details sitting around and talking about what the plebes should be allowed to do, and predictably, every awful aberration is a new excuse to allow us stupid clods less and less leeway. Bad enough when it's a police state-loving twat like that loathsome Peter King who has proposed that every member of Congress be surrounded by a mobile field that negates all constitutional rights within its 100' radius, but it's especially vomit-provoking when it comes from the Democrats, who always claim to be the party of the little guy but don't seem to understand that the little guy can't afford to hire armed manservants to watch over him 24/7.



Miguel_Zorro said:
kain_kusanagi said:
theprof00 said:
kain_kusanagi said:
JoeTheBro said:
Good. To answer your question it's really about second hand sales. If your friend wants to sell you a gun, you should just be able to sell it without being forced to pay for a background check.


This guy gets it.

should you be allowed to resell your prescription oxycodone to whoever as well?

The governement has no right to regulate my property. Guns are no more dangerous than any other tools.

No law can stop criminals from committing crimes. Oxycodone and all "controlled" substances are sold on the black market regardless of the many laws against it. Bombs are illegal and that didn't stop the Boston bombing.

I shouldn't need a FFL to sell my property toa friend or give it as a gift.

Serious question - since you're against gun control.  Do you have any suggestions about how to reduce violent crime, including gun crime, in the United States?

I'm not asking to be argumentative.  I don't have the answers.  I've wrestled with both sides of this issue but haven't come up with an answer to the "what do we do about this?" question.

We change the people, not their restrictions.



Euphoria14 said:
theprof00 said:
Euphoria14 said:

I worry more about wondering why my fiance is a LPN and I work Aerospace and we struggle to afford a fucking 2-bedroom apartment while paying for insurance, gas and other living expenses.

Much more important (As terrible as it may sound) than the vast minority that get hit with a bullet.

Ummm, what's to worry about? Obviously there is some financial burden you're not mentioning.

I live in Boston, in a rather expensive area, and I can afford everything I need, and I work at a bar, and my gf works as a manager of a comic book store.

Oh, and we have a one bedroom, a pool, parking, heat and elec included.

EDIT: Oh, and she spends a ridiculous amount on clothes. I probably pay double your rent.


Okay then hot shot, what do you pay?

Well, I don't know where you're from, but I pay 1100. Perhaps that was a bit overzealous on my part, but I figured if you worked in aerospace it would have to be somewhere cheaper than boston.



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Euphoria14 said:


I grew up in Brentwood, Long Island, which is pretty damn crime heavy pal. I have experienced many of the same things you have. However, I wisened up and learned to understand the way things work.

You know how to stay out of trouble? Easy. Mind your business.

Yeah, I minded my own business too, that is why I have a couple jobs and moved out of that area. However, that didn't stop me from being assaulted numerous times previously.

I've known people in gangs, and the mob. They've all been caught and done time at one time or another because of the laws we have. I don't see what the problem is. Sure they commit the crime, but there is no way to prevent crime, there is only a way to deter criminal behavior, and that is to make people think that they will be caught.



badgenome said:
theprof00 said:

3rd paragraph- but when have you ever encountered a person saying "if only I hadn't had to wait those three days, I could've protected my family"? How much of a nuisance to the everyday person does it really create?

I never have, admittedly, but considering how many guns are sold the possibility isn't so statistically unlikely, certainly no more so than the idea that the kind of half-assed gun control being debated is actually going to save any lives.

I think what most sticks in my craw about this is seeing a bunch of elite shitheads who have personal security details sitting around and talking about what the plebes should be allowed to do, and predictably, every awful aberration is a new excuse to allow us stupid clods less and less leeway. Bad enough when it's a police state-loving twat like that loathsome Peter King who has proposed that every member of Congress be surrounded by a mobile field that negates all constitutional rights within its 100' radius, but it's especially vomit-provoking when it comes from the Democrats, who always claim to be the party of the little guy but don't seem to understand that the little guy can't afford to hire armed manservants to watch over him 24/7.

Yeah, I agree, that is problematic, and hypocritical.

There is definitely room for improvement on all fronts. Electing the right people is a start, but lobbying is up there too. Lobbying is the basis for nearly all the faults of law enforcement.



theprof00 said:
Euphoria14 said:
theprof00 said:
Euphoria14 said:

I worry more about wondering why my fiance is a LPN and I work Aerospace and we struggle to afford a fucking 2-bedroom apartment while paying for insurance, gas and other living expenses.

Much more important (As terrible as it may sound) than the vast minority that get hit with a bullet.

Ummm, what's to worry about? Obviously there is some financial burden you're not mentioning.

I live in Boston, in a rather expensive area, and I can afford everything I need, and I work at a bar, and my gf works as a manager of a comic book store.

Oh, and we have a one bedroom, a pool, parking, heat and elec included.

EDIT: Oh, and she spends a ridiculous amount on clothes. I probably pay double your rent.


Okay then hot shot, what do you pay?

Well, I don't know where you're from, but I pay 1100. Perhaps that was a bit overzealous on my part, but I figured if you worked in aerospace it would have to be somewhere cheaper than boston.


Long Island is expensive. So much that my best friend growing up moved to Boston last year because it was cheaper.

 

I pay $1,600/month for a 2-bedroom. I need to pay that because I have a daughter who is about to turn 4. 

You have any idea what daycare costs? Can't survive unless BOTH of us work.

 

I'll give you an idea. I have it easy, for ~$200/week. ~10k/year in daycare. But you know what, let us worry about whether or not the guy down the block can have a gun.



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Euphoria14 said:
Flanneryaug said:
Euphoria14 said:
theprof00 said:
Euphoria14 said:
Tigerlure said:
JoeTheBro said:
Good. To answer your question it's really about second hand sales. If your friend wants to sell you a gun, you should just be able to sell it without being forced to pay for a background check.


Isn't that a small cost to pay for the safety of others? I know I'd want to make sure I'm not selling a gun to a mentally unstable person, and hopefully a background check would prevent that.


What safety? Last I checked bombs were illegal.

Do I really need to explain what went down a couple days ago?

 

Limiting what types of guns people can get, or what criteria you must fit in order to get it will change nothing.

What kind of argument is that?

Where were guns Monday when we needed them?

Who said we needed guns on Monday? That isn't my point.

My point is that even with these stupid laws we are trying to pass, it is not going to stop those who wish to harm others.

 

 

We have more important shit to worry about than how I can get a gun. Common sense tells you that laws aside, I can get a gun if I really want to.

 

 

All this current BS is just that, BS. I didn't vote this guy in to worry about guns. I voted him in to lower my fucking $70/week medical bill, amongst other much more important things.

So you think that people should be able to easily buy and sell bombs, since if someone wants to bomb a place they will find a way? 


Now how did you possibly get that from what I said?

You said that background checks don't help keep people safe since bombs are illegal, and a bombing just happened a couple days ago.



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Flanneryaug said:

You said that background checks don't help keep people safe since bombs are illegal, and a bombing just happened a couple days ago.


My point was that gun control wasn't going to stop criminals from using guns.



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