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Forums - Gaming Discussion - 720 will Decide if WiiU RAM is enough.

S.T.A.G.E. said:


 The PS4 is impressive....for a console. No one asked for anymore than for a well made console that could push tech in the next generation. I am not talking about a customizable PC, but rather a console that is powerful enoguh to enjoy great games that have high expectations.


No. The PS4 isn't impressive, to say otherwise is just being silly or bordering on fanaticism.
It's got a low-end processor to the point you can't get much slower in the x86 world and a mid-range graphics chip.

At-least when the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 launched they had high-end hardware relative to high-end PC's, this time around? Not so much, more or less mid-range or lower in components.
Mind you, we are yet to see what the Xbox 720 has to offer, might end up being a bit quicker than the PS4. (Although the reverse could be true.)



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


 The PS4 is impressive....for a console. No one asked for anymore than for a well made console that could push tech in the next generation. I am not talking about a customizable PC, but rather a console that is powerful enoguh to enjoy great games that have high expectations.


No. The PS4 isn't impressive, to say otherwise is just being silly or bordering on fanaticism.
It's got a low-end processor to the point you can't get much slower in the x86 world and a mid-range graphics chip.




ishiki said:
Captain_Tom said:
Zero999 said:
Captain_Tom said:
TheLastStarFighter said:
Just to clarify, rumors state that 720 will have 4 gig for games and 4 gig for "other stuff", not just the OS. There is a lot of speculation that 720 will be doing lots of things beyond games. The OS could use up 2 gig, while skype, your cable feed and DVR, your always on connection and other features could be using up system memory while 4 gig is blocked off for games. This is all speculation on rumor, of course.

The point is, if games are designed to run on 4 gig of memory, it's not a crazy stretch to say they can run on 1 gig or so. Whether 3rd parties support Nintendo is a whole other matter.


YES IT IS!  4 =/= 1 !  It's like some of you don't even realize how rediculous you sound.  It would take at least 2.5 GB pf Ram to even try to run next gen games.  Not to mention you would need a GPU stronger than a cut down HD 6570 + 1.24 GHz Xbox 360 CPU to even use that much!  Nintendo massively dropped the ball in performance yet again!

bolded: say facts not random sh*t you invented. also, have you ever heard of a little something called scalability? drop resolution from 1080p to 720p and reduce some effects here and there and omg, it's totally runing on wii u. i just don't understand haters, they're alreaddy not going to buy wii u, why keep wishing it does'nt get suport?


It's not as simple as 1080p to 720p + effects when you go from 3072MB of VRAM to 384MB.  That is 8 times less room.  You can't scale that!

You can reduce the textures resolution, output resolution, and antialiasing this reduces VRAM usage significantly. for instance bioshock infinite on pc uses around 2400mb of VRAM on pc. It obviously doesn't use that much on console. This argument is more complicated than this, because the PC version is like an enhanced console version. Whereas A PS4-->Wiiu would be gimping, not enhancing the main version. it does show in certain circumstances you can cut VRAM usage significantly.

System ram on top of VRAM is more difficult to scale to.  I'm not going to comment on what is/is not possible in regards to the Wii-u


LOL no it doesn't!  I play it maxed out 100% and it only uses around 1500MB-1800MB.  They then tried to fit that into 256MB.  What happened?  The PS3 and especially the 360 version can't even hold a steady 25 FPS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLLWtgVglTE

This is all while having some butt-ugly textures.   So yeah your future for the Wii U looks great.  I can't wait to see what happens to console versions of games when 2+ GB is standard (Which it will be by next year).



walsufnir said:
Pemalite said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


 The PS4 is impressive....for a console. No one asked for anymore than for a well made console that could push tech in the next generation. I am not talking about a customizable PC, but rather a console that is powerful enoguh to enjoy great games that have high expectations.


No. The PS4 isn't impressive, to say otherwise is just being silly or bordering on fanaticism.
It's got a low-end processor to the point you can't get much slower in the x86 world and a mid-range graphics chip.

 


Low end and mid range?  AMD's released data of the 4-core Jaguar APU shows it coming close to an mobile i3.  The PS4 one will have 8 cores which should bring it close to an i3-2100/ i7-920 (Yes those are both the same gaming power).  Also the GPU is in between a 7850 and 7870.  That makes it stronger than the strongest AMD GPU 1.5 years ago, and it can still max out any game in 1080p.  It may be "Midrange," but this years midrange is way stronger than usual.  They then managed to put it on one die with the CPU!  That is impressive!

Yes, my  $1000 PC is 2-4 times stronger than the PS4, but it is impressive.  Nothing in the Wii U is anywhere near as impressive as that.  They took a 6570 and cut it way down so it uses small amounts of power.  Yay!



Captain_Tom said:

LOL no it doesn't!  I play it maxed out 100% and it only uses around 1500MB-1800MB.  They then tried to fit that into 256MB.  What happened?  The PS3 and especially the 360 version can't even hold a steady 25 FPS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLLWtgVglTE

This is all while having some butt-ugly textures.   So yeah your future for the Wii U looks great.  I can't wait to see what happens to console versions of games when 2+ GB is standard (Which it will be by next year).


RAM has almost nothing to do with framerate. The 360 and PS3 versions can't hold 25FPS because the GPU and CPU are outdated compared to current PC specs. If you try to run, for example, Crysis on a HD 4870 512MB GPU and then on a HD 4670 1GB GPU, which card will run the game with better framerates? It's obvious that the HD 4870 will run it much better, even with less RAM. About the butt-ugly textures, that may be because PS3 and 360 lack RAM, but in the framerate department, it doesn't matter at all how much RAM you have.



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Pemalite said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


 The PS4 is impressive....for a console. No one asked for anymore than for a well made console that could push tech in the next generation. I am not talking about a customizable PC, but rather a console that is powerful enoguh to enjoy great games that have high expectations.


No. The PS4 isn't impressive, to say otherwise is just being silly or bordering on fanaticism.

It's got a low-end processor to the point you can't get much slower in the x86 world and a mid-range graphics chip.

At-least when the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 launched they had high-end hardware relative to high-end PC's, this time around? Not so much, more or less mid-range or lower in components.
Mind you, we are yet to see what the Xbox 720 has to offer, might end up being a bit quicker than the PS4. (Although the reverse could be true.)

Derp. For you maybe and the other 0.1% or gamers out there with overspecced PC's that share your opinion.

For the rest of us.. we'll enjoy the next gen consoles and games. Back then, noone asked for $599 PS3, and now with the economic decline and recession in order I doubt people will want to spent that much on consoles. The PS4 is decently specced for what needs to do and will most likey offer great bang for the buck. Have you not seen the UT4 demo running on the PS4? That is impressive tbh considering the specs. You might not find it so, but it doesn't make it any less impressive for those who do not want to spend $1000-$2000 to acheive a similar thing on the PC.

In every topic I see you bashing the PS4 because you don't seem impressed with it (for whatever reason). It's boring. Its not specced like a high end PC. We get that. Now get off your high horse and stop posting about it.



hinch said:

Derp. For you maybe and the other 0.1% or gamers out there with overspecced PC's that share your opinion.

For the rest of us.. we'll enjoy the next gen consoles and games. Back then, noone asked for $599 PS3, and now with the economic decline and recession in order I doubt people will want to spent that much on consoles. The PS4 is decently specced for what needs to do and will most likey offer great bang for the buck. Have you not seen the UT4 demo running on the PS4? That is impressive tbh considering the specs. You might not find it so, but it doesn't make it any less impressive for those who do not want to spend $1000-$2000 to acheive a similar thing on the PC.

In every topic I see you bashing the PS4 because you don't seem impressed with it (for whatever reason). It's boring. Its not specced like a high end PC. We get that. Now get off your high horse and stop posting about it.

All things are relative. If S.T.A.G.E. can freely say that the U is not impressive, then permalite can freely say that the PS4 is not impressive.

And in the end, majority is not what matters, but relativity. If the PS4 is nothing compared to what impressive PCs can do, then S.T.A.G.E. is the one who should get off his high horse.

At the same time you have people praising games like TLoU, at the same time you have people bashing the U for being unimpressive. Seriously where is the logic in that?



RazorDragon said:
Captain_Tom said:

LOL no it doesn't!  I play it maxed out 100% and it only uses around 1500MB-1800MB.  They then tried to fit that into 256MB.  What happened?  The PS3 and especially the 360 version can't even hold a steady 25 FPS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLLWtgVglTE

This is all while having some butt-ugly textures.   So yeah your future for the Wii U looks great.  I can't wait to see what happens to console versions of games when 2+ GB is standard (Which it will be by next year).


RAM has almost nothing to do with framerate. The 360 and PS3 versions can't hold 25FPS because the GPU and CPU are outdated compared to current PC specs. If you try to run, for example, Crysis on a HD 4870 512MB GPU and then on a HD 4670 1GB GPU, which card will run the game with better framerates? It's obvious that the HD 4870 will run it much better, even with less RAM. About the butt-ugly textures, that may be because PS3 and 360 lack RAM, but in the framerate department, it doesn't matter at all how much RAM you have.


Not necessarily.

 

Ram has a lot to do with framerates. Ram bandwith is directly related to framerates. If you have a Titan/I7 PC with DDR2 you would still just get 2 fps because the Ram would be too slow to deliever the data to the GPU.

 

Ram amount also has something to do with framerates. This is a problem that plagues consoles. Games today on consoles are mostly limited through Ram size. If there is not enough ram space like 360/PS3 for example the GPU has to compress and decompress the data it reads and writes to the Ram or else it wouldn't fit into the limited space. This costs GPU time and thats often the reason for the bad framerates on consoles.



happydolphin said:
hinch said:

Derp. For you maybe and the other 0.1% or gamers out there with overspecced PC's that share your opinion.

For the rest of us.. we'll enjoy the next gen consoles and games. Back then, noone asked for $599 PS3, and now with the economic decline and recession in order I doubt people will want to spent that much on consoles. The PS4 is decently specced for what needs to do and will most likey offer great bang for the buck. Have you not seen the UT4 demo running on the PS4? That is impressive tbh considering the specs. You might not find it so, but it doesn't make it any less impressive for those who do not want to spend $1000-$2000 to acheive a similar thing on the PC.

In every topic I see you bashing the PS4 because you don't seem impressed with it (for whatever reason). It's boring. Its not specced like a high end PC. We get that. Now get off your high horse and stop posting about it.

All things are relative. If S.T.A.G.E. can freely say that the U is not impressive, then permalite can freely say that the PS4 is not impressive.

And in the end, majority is not what matters, but relativity. If the PS4 is nothing compared to what impressive PCs can do, then S.T.A.G.E. is the one who should get off his high horse.

At the same time you have people praising games like TLoU, at the same time you have people bashing the U for being unimpressive. Seriously where is the logic in that?

The thing is.. a lot of people were impressed by the demonstation Sony did in February. Gamers were talking about it online and it made so much hype that it was on featured on a lot of newpapers around the world. The Wii U on the other hand did not impress a lot of gamers which is the probably why people don't really talk about how good the graphics are or how good the controller is for it.

If you took an average gamer, who is not so informed about the latest gaming news (like my brother for example). Who owns a PS3 or 360 and showed them a Wii U game.. they would probably would not be that impressed by it because it's nothing they haven't really seen before (from a technical standpoint). in fact, if you put the consoles side by side comparison  and didn't show them the controller, I'd bet they they wouldn't be able tell the difference between them.

But, if you showed them clips of of the stuff for the PS4 presentation. They'd absolutely be able to telll the difference. My brother was absolutely blown away by the PS4 and he's not really into graphics.



hinch said:

The thing is.. a lot of people were impressed by the demonstation Sony did in February. Gamers were talking about it online and it made so much hype that it was on featured on a lot of newpapers around the world. The Wii U on the other hand did not impress a lot of gamers which is the probably why people don't really talk about how good the graphics are or how good the controller is for it.

If you took an average gamer, who is not so informed about the latest gaming news (like my brother for example). Who owns a PS3 or 360 and showed them a Wii U game.. they would probably would not be that impressed by it because it's nothing they haven't really seen before (from a technical standpoint). in fact, if you put the consoles side by side comparison  and didn't show them the controller, I'd bet they they wouldn't be able tell the difference between them.

But, if you showed them clips of of the stuff for the PS4 presentation. They'd absolutely be able to telll the difference. My brother was absolutely blown away by the PS4 and he's not really into graphics.

Do you truly believe that the amount of excitement from preople at the Sony conference is an indicator of the impressiveness of the graphics?

I am pretty sure people will be very impressed by TLoU, yet still the U is unimpressive.

I will tell you this, I watched the Sony conference, but I was mostly impressed because of Sony's emphasis on games. Yes, the Killzone video was impressive, but I would bet a lot of money that it could easily be downscaled to a WiiU, even a PS3, and still be impressive visually.

The draw-distances and colors were amazing, so was the detail, but I'm pretty sure that most of that would still be very impressive if downscaled.

In other words, diminishing returns is the key word here. (You were talking about getting off a high-horse right?)