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Forums - Gaming Discussion - How will the Wii U fit games on the PS4, if the PS4 will have 7GB RAM available?

richardhutnik on 13 April 2013
curl-6 said:
richardhutnik said:
curl-6 said:
richardhutnik said:
curl-6 said:
oniyide said:

im just going to refer you to Barozi's post, look at that list and then try to tell me the Wii version was like the others

The core gameplay was essentially the  same. Like the graphics, it had less detail, but the fundamental mechanics and functionality were present and playable. You had the same guns, perks, for the most part missions and maps, the same large enemy counts, large environments, and story.

Levels in the single player capaign were shortened.  The game also didn't get map pack support, and other things were different.  There was a difference involved for a number of reasons.

Black Ops and World at War had level trims, but Modern Warfare 1 & 3 were intact.

So how exactly do you level trim a game that is an open world game, and everything in the world loads once and runs together at once, like the way Crackdown did?  Do you seriously not think that a bunch of open world games won't be done next generation?

Open world games don't have to be loaded at all once; the 7th gen and even the 6th gen had plenty of open world games, achieved by loading sections of the world in and out as the player moves through it. (GTA:SA did open world on the PS2's 32MB of RAM, for instance)

In worlds where the entire environment is siimulated and running in memory (like Crackdown) you do.  It depends on the target really.  You see what happened with how Minecraft is set up, and it is done differently.  The reality is that it is different code, not just quickly porting between different systems around an X86 base.  This is an issue the Wii U is going to run into.  



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curl-6 on 13 April 2013
richardhutnik said:
curl-6 said:
richardhutnik said:
curl-6 said:
richardhutnik said:

Levels in the single player capaign were shortened.  The game also didn't get map pack support, and other things were different.  There was a difference involved for a number of reasons.

Black Ops and World at War had level trims, but Modern Warfare 1 & 3 were intact.

So how exactly do you level trim a game that is an open world game, and everything in the world loads once and runs together at once, like the way Crackdown did?  Do you seriously not think that a bunch of open world games won't be done next generation?

Open world games don't have to be loaded at all once; the 7th gen and even the 6th gen had plenty of open world games, achieved by loading sections of the world in and out as the player moves through it. (GTA:SA did open world on the PS2's 32MB of RAM, for instance)

In worlds where the entire environment is simulated and running in memory (like Crackdown) you do.  It depends on the target really.  You see what happened with how Minecraft is set up, and it is done differently.  The reality is that it is different code, not just quickly porting between different systems around an X86 base.  This is an issue the Wii U is going to run into.  

Crackdown ran on less than 500MB of RAM, Wii U currently has 1GB available for games. It does depend on the target, but I'd say the bigger problem is that a lot of devs simply won't bother trying.



COKTOE on 13 April 2013

Lots of differences between the Wii COD's vs the PS3/360. Not "intact" at all. http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Differences_of_Call_of_Duty_games_on_the_Wii



curl-6 on 13 April 2013
COKTOE said:
Lots of differences between the Wii COD's vs the PS3/360. Not "intact" at all. http://callofduty.wikia.com/wiki/Differences_of_Call_of_Duty_games_on_the_Wii

The fundamental gameplay, structure, guns, perks, story, and for the most part missions are intact.



EricFabian on 13 April 2013

what I don't understand is that some people insist that the WiiU has 1GB- of memory for games, when the right is 1GB+



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VGKing on 13 April 2013

Well they won't make it over. Plain and simple.
Of course games like Watch Dogs are coming to Wii U but that game was developed with current-gen console limitations in mind.

In a few years we'll be seeing massive open world games that will just be impossible to port to the Wii U due to technical limitations from all angles.

Call of Duty isn't a good example as that is essentially a sports game. It's not very technically demanding and they haven't exactly pushed console limits. I don't expect many games to limit themselves just to be able to release on Wii U. Of course, iwth a lot of sacrifices I'm sure many games will be able to be ported down. It's actually kind of amazing that MW3 got ported to the Wii.



DietSoap on 13 April 2013
curl-6 said:
DietSoap said:
curl-6 said:
richardhutnik said:
curl-6 said:
Call of Duty Modern Warfare 1 & 3, Black Ops, and World at War ran on the Wii despite the Wii having 88MB of RAM to the PS3/360's 512MB.

So the PS3 and 360 wil also have no problem play next gen titles at all either, right?  So, then what is the extra RAM on the PS4 needed for if the Wii U is more than capable of doing everything you had mentioned?

However, assuming this review is valid, apparently MW3 didn't exactly hit the same levels that the 360 version did:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2011/11/15/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-wii-review

PS3 and 360 have less than half as much RAM as Wii U.

PS4 has more RAM because they wanted higher resolution textures, bigger, more detailed worlds, etc. However, a lot of PS4 games won't use it all, and for many the core gameplay will be able to be scaled down to fit into 1GB with graphical detail concessions, just as PS3/360 COD's core gameplay can fit into the Wii's smaller RAM with detail concessions.

I've played MW3 on Wii, its actually a remarkably close replication. IGN gave World at War on Wii a good review for being further from the PS3/360 versions, so they're not very consistent.

It's half for games, the other gig is locked to OS.

Besides though, if you want to claim PS360 games were reasonably transitioned down to a system with 1/6th the amount of ram, I think they can manage 1/2 just fine... Not to mention faster CPUs (yes, I realize the idea is the Wii U CPU could possibly have better architecture, but we haven't proven that yet like we've proven the clock rates) and years of dev experience give the PS360 their own edge over the Wii U as well.

I'm aware the Wii U loses half its RAM to the OS. It still has more than double the RAM of the PS3 and 360.

Of course some PS4 games could theoretically be scaled to PS3/360, but the game would have to be chopped down further than on Wii U; reduced draw distance, lower resolution textures, less detail, etc.

The Wii U vs PS360 CPU debate is still up in the air.While the latter may be clocked faster, Criterion have said that:

"[The Wii U CPU] is a different kind of chip and it's not fair to look at its clock-speed and other consoles' clock-speed and compare them as numbers that are relevant. It's not a relevant comparison to make when you have processors that are so divergent. It's apples and oranges."

and

"while [the Wii U CPU] is a lower clock-speed, it punches above its weight in a lot of other areas."

The Wii U also has a GPGPU to handle tasks traditionally handled by the CPU.

At any rate, with 7GB vs 1GB/less than 500MB, memory will be the main problem, devs will hit that wall long before they have to worry about CPUs.

 

 

If they're willing to do the long drop from PS4/720 to Wii U, then the graphical drop from Wii U to PS360 will be negligible at most if not nonexistent.

As far as the CPU, right, it's just like I said, I realize the idea is the architecture should be better and all, just saying the simple reality is we haven't proven that yet like we've proven the lower clock rates. We've seen framerates in various multiplats suffer on the Wii U as a result of the CPU, so it's going to be a matter of developers proving moving forward it is indeed better.



Persistantthug on 13 April 2013

Why should it matter?

Most developers aren't making any games for the Wii U anyways.

lol



ghost_of_fazz on 13 April 2013

It's impossible. The Wii U is already maxed out. Scaling? Rendering at a lower resolution? Less anisotropic filter? Less antialiasing? Lower resolution and compressed textures? Lower resolution shadows? Lower resolution lighting? Loading less assets at a time? Nah, that cannot be done. This is not a PC to PS360 we're talking about. We're talking 'bout Nintendo, and when it's Nintendo, those things cannot be done. Trust me, I post at Neogaf, that makes me a pro.

endofsarcasm


Now all jokes aside, it's not that the Wii U won't be able to do the same games. It's about many developers won't bother doing it, and not because of the hardware, but because of the perceived market of the console. They think their ports won't sell, and won't even try.



curl-6 on 13 April 2013
DietSoap said:
curl-6 said:
DietSoap said:
curl-6 said:
richardhutnik said:
curl-6 said:
Call of Duty Modern Warfare 1 & 3, Black Ops, and World at War ran on the Wii despite the Wii having 88MB of RAM to the PS3/360's 512MB.

So the PS3 and 360 wil also have no problem play next gen titles at all either, right?  So, then what is the extra RAM on the PS4 needed for if the Wii U is more than capable of doing everything you had mentioned?

However, assuming this review is valid, apparently MW3 didn't exactly hit the same levels that the 360 version did:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2011/11/15/call-of-duty-modern-warfare-3-wii-review

PS3 and 360 have less than half as much RAM as Wii U.

PS4 has more RAM because they wanted higher resolution textures, bigger, more detailed worlds, etc. However, a lot of PS4 games won't use it all, and for many the core gameplay will be able to be scaled down to fit into 1GB with graphical detail concessions, just as PS3/360 COD's core gameplay can fit into the Wii's smaller RAM with detail concessions.

I've played MW3 on Wii, its actually a remarkably close replication. IGN gave World at War on Wii a good review for being further from the PS3/360 versions, so they're not very consistent.

It's half for games, the other gig is locked to OS.

Besides though, if you want to claim PS360 games were reasonably transitioned down to a system with 1/6th the amount of ram, I think they can manage 1/2 just fine... Not to mention faster CPUs (yes, I realize the idea is the Wii U CPU could possibly have better architecture, but we haven't proven that yet like we've proven the clock rates) and years of dev experience give the PS360 their own edge over the Wii U as well.

I'm aware the Wii U loses half its RAM to the OS. It still has more than double the RAM of the PS3 and 360.

Of course some PS4 games could theoretically be scaled to PS3/360, but the game would have to be chopped down further than on Wii U; reduced draw distance, lower resolution textures, less detail, etc.

The Wii U vs PS360 CPU debate is still up in the air.While the latter may be clocked faster, Criterion have said that:

"[The Wii U CPU] is a different kind of chip and it's not fair to look at its clock-speed and other consoles' clock-speed and compare them as numbers that are relevant. It's not a relevant comparison to make when you have processors that are so divergent. It's apples and oranges."

and

"while [the Wii U CPU] is a lower clock-speed, it punches above its weight in a lot of other areas."

The Wii U also has a GPGPU to handle tasks traditionally handled by the CPU.

At any rate, with 7GB vs 1GB/less than 500MB, memory will be the main problem, devs will hit that wall long before they have to worry about CPUs.

 

 

If they're willing to do the long drop from PS4/720 to Wii U, then the graphical drop from Wii U to PS360 will be negligible at most if not nonexistent.

As far as the CPU, right, it's just like I said, I realize the idea is the architecture should be better and all, just saying the simple reality is we haven't proven that yet like we've proven the lower clock rates. We've seen framerates in various multiplats suffer on the Wii U as a result of the CPU, so it's going to be a matter of developers proving moving forward it is indeed better.

The drop from 1GB to less than 500MB is certainly not nonexistant, even if its dropped from up to 7GB.

Clockspeed isn't a reliable indicator of a CPUs ability, (the Megahertz Myth) and launch ports (made on crappy devkits no less) aren't a reliable indicator of a system's ability.