I'm talking about video RAM here, which is obviously shared with the system.

So 2GB max for video use and 2GB max for game use would be plenty = 4GB total.

PC games may well use 3GB+ but at least 2GB of that is used for the OS.

Obviously having 8GB is a good thing, and it leaves headroom for developers to not spend as long optimizing and for additional features in the OS and I'm very happy about it. Don't kid yourself that this is going to make graphics any better though.

RAM quanity is about allowing a platform to be used as intended = not about speeding it up.

RAM speed can make things faster though of course and GDDR5 is top speed stuff.

I haven't got the will to provide graphs etc to prove my point. I know what I know from being into computers and graphics cards and stuff for 15 years or so.

The information is freely out there with a quick google if you want to get educated on the ins and outs of it.

I'm not arguing here at all, not trying to prove a point or any "I'm right hahahaha" thing. It's just factually correct.

The fact Sony have put 8GB in there is a good thing, see my previous post. I'm not slagging off Sony here or trying to downplay their choice - please don't assume this is what it's about - quite the opposite. Can't wait for the PS4 and having 8GB of shared RAM is the best thing I heard at the PS4 announcement a month or so ago and one of the reasons I'll be getting one.

I'm just saying that 8GB isn't going to make the graphics better in games, this is not opinion it's straight up how it is :)

More RAM does not make games run better and the PS4 has so much that even 4GB is enough for the power of the GPU.

Seriously, I could rant on all night but best you google something like "2GB Vs 1GB graphics card performance"...have a little dig around and you will see it's been documented for nigh on 10 years that manufacturers add additional RAM as a selling point - but with no actual speed benefit. In some cases it can even run SLOWER because it might not be the same type of RAM used as the 1GB model of a certain graphics card etc.

I'm really not against Sony here so please don't read what I'm saying with a suspcious eye! ;)

See the bolded, graphics not better - but easier to develop for, not as much time needed optimizing for developers.

What you're saying really doesn't apply to the PS4. Especially the underlined part.

I'm not saying the more RAM, the better the graphics. I'm saying the more RAM, the better/bigger/faster EVERYTHING. Why do some open world games have shitty graphics while linear games like Uncharted 3 can push the boundaries of console graphics. In cases like this, I think that the more RAM, the better the graphics.

Actually, you don't really have any Ram that is reserved for the OS, in PC land it's all Dynamic.
For example, you have 4Gb of ram, the core part of windows itself might chug along with about 368-512mb of Ram for itself, but it can also cache gigabytes of frequently used data into the systems ram to speed up the operation of frequent tasks that you perform on the PC.
So that 4gb of ram in your PC might all be used up by windows if you are merely sitting at the desktop.

However, when you do start to run out of Ram when you say... Launch a game, windows will throw all that cached data out the window to allow the game to use as much as it can, within reason of course.
Once you hit a limit of what windows can free up and what the game needs, then Windows will then start shoving data into the Pagefile, which is slow. But better than a crash. :)

It's also why having Windows 7 or Windows 8 on a PC with 512Mb/1Gb of ram is generally fine, there will simply be just less stuff cached in the systems Ram and would be fine for just word processing and web browsing.
Right now though, with my 32Gb of Ram, Windows is using about 20Gb for just caching, granted I haven't turned off or restarted my PC in about 3 months.

Also, one thing I have worked out on this website is that people are willing to throw logic and common sense out the window in the name of their favorite console, pretending they're more powerful than they actually are, that they are more flexible than they actually are, when it simply isn't true.
The PS4 is a mash of Mid-Range and Low-End PC hardware, you need to be realistic on it's capabilities, not pretending it's at super computing levels like what Sony has claimed all it's prior consoles were.

They will use all of it by the time the gen is over. The Witcher 2 used 3GB of ram on PC.

And more. It's a 6x CAV drive which is better for seek times but read times are 2.4x slower when reading the inside of the disc.

6x CAV ps4 = 216 mbps / 27 MBs at the outer edge to 90 mbps / 11.25 MBs at the inner edge
2x CLV ps3 = 72 mbps / 9 MBs anywhere on the disk, seek times are much worse as the rotational speed has to change.

Don't worry too much about a loud drive, it doesn't spin that much faster then the ps3 drive at full speed (~4900 rpm vs ~3900 rpm). However it will always spin at that speed.

HDD install will be even more essential next gen to feed all that ram efficiently. The blu-ray drive will be better able to help this time with the lower seek times and the much faster outer track. 1st party games will benefit by using both hdd and optical drive. Use 1 layer for a fast initial install at 27MBs, use the other layer for fast data access while playing, and use the slower parts of the disc for fmv and background loading.
The question is whether 3rd party devs are going to bother since the next xbox is rumored to always do a full hdd install. Why optimize for disk plus hdd use if it's easier to have 1 version for both disc and digital distribution?

The 6x CAV kinda puts my hopes down for a 4K disc format to run on ps4. 90 mbps is not fast enough for disc quality 4K. Maybe in a couple years a ps4 slim will feature a 12x CAV drive for 4K disc playback. (max speed is about 10,000 rpm) (And it will need to be able to read 8 layer 200 GB discs ofcourse...)

Actually, you don't really have any Ram that is reserved for the OS, in PC land it's all Dynamic.
For example, you have 4Gb of ram, the core part of windows itself might chug along with about 368-512mb of Ram for itself, but it can also cache gigabytes of frequently used data into the systems ram to speed up the operation of frequent tasks that you perform on the PC.
So that 4gb of ram in your PC might all be used up by windows if you are merely sitting at the desktop.

However, when you do start to run out of Ram when you say... Launch a game, windows will throw all that cached data out the window to allow the game to use as much as it can, within reason of course.
Once you hit a limit of what windows can free up and what the game needs, then Windows will then start shoving data into the Pagefile, which is slow. But better than a crash. :)

It's also why having Windows 7 or Windows 8 on a PC with 512Mb/1Gb of ram is generally fine, there will simply be just less stuff cached in the systems Ram and would be fine for just word processing and web browsing.
Right now though, with my 32Gb of Ram, Windows is using about 20Gb for just caching, granted I haven't turned off or restarted my PC in about 3 months.

Also, one thing I have worked out on this website is that people are willing to throw logic and common sense out the window in the name of their favorite console, pretending they're more powerful than they actually are, that they are more flexible than they actually are, when it simply isn't true.
The PS4 is a mash of Mid-Range and Low-End PC hardware, you need to be realistic on it's capabilities, not pretending it's at super computing levels like what Sony has claimed all it's prior consoles were.

All well and good but have you actually tried this in theory.

Go and compare system performance with 1GB and 2GB in Windows 7, it's clear that 1GB isn't enough even for basic web browsing with the OS stripped to the bones of any service except ones that are critical to the OS running.

Only the other day I spent £20 on 2 x 1GB SODIMMs for my parents laptop and they only use it for web browsing and - nothing - else. They noticed a massive difference, when a system is caching to disk just browsing the web, the OS doesn't have enough RAM.

1GB - no chance that will run on Windows 7 without extreme aggrevation.

I agree, and a big part of the reason for me posting about the 8GB of RAM making graphics better. No chance when that 8GB RAM is being bolted onto an AMD 7850 hybrid.

You know, that actually brings up an interesting question, I wonder what kind of drive is in the Wii U, we know it's basically 5x Blu Ray but they never said if it was CLV or CAV. Anyways, you are right about noise not being an issue since the Wii U is never loud at 5X.