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Forums - Gaming - Why Game Developers Are Flocking to Sony and Fleeing From Microsoft

foodfather said:

I'm hearing the BS but I'm not seeing the facts that supports such claims. 

Without Xbox Live, indie games genre would not be where they are now.

PS3 has 3 good indie success stories, all from the same developer, which was close to becoming bankrupt forcing their next title to be multiplatform.

On the Xbox 360, there are dozens of hugely successful indie games, exclusive or otherwise and I can't think of a single developer that has gone bankrupt as a result of choosing xbox 360.

If you are an indie developer, it would be stupid not to support the 360.

I'm not seeing any facts from you, either.

As for success stories, it's a bit silly to say PSN has only had three.  That doesn't even make any sense, considering how many indie developers have come out to say that their experience with Microsoft was the worst of this generation.  Brian Provinciano, referenced in this article, has said that the XBLA version of his last game cost more than all the others, made less money than the PSN or Steam versions, and got very little support from Microsoft.  Many other developers have said the same thing.  Many, many developers have been very happy with thier PSN releases--how are those not success stories?

Microsoft beat Sony on this front early this gen but then got complacent, which allowed Sony to catch up and pass them.  Sony, right now, has a much better reputation in the indie circle.  Like it or not, it's true.  Microsoft has lost ground, and unless they decide to pull their heads out ot the sand, they will lose more ground in the future.  It's really up to them.



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"The power dynamic has shifted over the last generation: Sony’s process was originally predicated on the idea that developers desperately wanted to appear on PlayStation, and Sony could make elaborate demands of them with the ostensible goal of raising the quality bar of the PlayStation’s content library. But today, it’s Sony that needs indies; it must create a path of least resistance for them because they have other options if PlayStation proves too daunting."

I think this is the biggest issue for Sony. This article may focus on independent developers and their relationships with MS. But money making publishers are big on MS and light on Sony.

Perhaps MS has figured out how to make money in the indie market which is why they are so strict with the developers. Being an indie developers best friend is great and all but if he can't make you any money at the end of the day he and you are going to be out on the streets. Sounds like MS started bringing some structure to the market in order to get some real results and it sounds like it worked, Sony should probably follow suit so they don't end up too far behind like they did with PSN.



pokoko said:
foodfather said:

I'm hearing the BS but I'm not seeing the facts that supports such claims. 

Without Xbox Live, indie games genre would not be where they are now.

PS3 has 3 good indie success stories, all from the same developer, which was close to becoming bankrupt forcing their next title to be multiplatform.

On the Xbox 360, there are dozens of hugely successful indie games, exclusive or otherwise and I can't think of a single developer that has gone bankrupt as a result of choosing xbox 360.

If you are an indie developer, it would be stupid not to support the 360.

I'm not seeing any facts from you, either.

As for success stories, it's a bit silly to say PSN has only had three.  That doesn't even make any sense, considering how many indie developers have come out to say that their experience with Microsoft was the worst of this generation.  Brian Provinciano, referenced in this article, has said that the XBLA version of his last game cost more than all the others, made less money than the PSN or Steam versions, and got very little support from Microsoft.  Many other developers have said the same thing.  Many, many developers have been very happy with thier PSN releases--how are those not success stories?

Microsoft beat Sony on this front early this gen but then got complacent, which allowed Sony to catch up and pass them.  Sony, right now, has a much better reputation in the indie circle.  Like it or not, it's true.  Microsoft has lost ground, and unless they decide to pull their heads out ot the sand, they will lose more ground in the future.  It's really up to them.

Reputation doesn't make you money, like it or not MS is more successful in the indie market that Sony is, a lot more successful. Sony needs ot turn some of this reputation building into profit building.





scat398 said:

Reputation doesn't make you money, like it or not MS is more successful in the indie market that Sony is, a lot more successful. Sony needs ot turn some of this reputation building into profit building.

Sources?

If you don't name some recent examples then this won't go anywhere.  On Sony's side, they're getting The Witness as a limited exclusive for no other reason than the developer had a horrible time working with Microsoft.  Microsoft has alienated guys like Ron Carmel, Jakub Dvorský, and Team Meat.  How is can it be "more successful" when some of the most well-known indie developers are looking to other platforms first?  Retro City Rampage did far, far better on PSN than XBLA--how does that translate to more successful?

You're gonna have to explain what you're talking about.



pokoko said:
foodfather said:

I'm hearing the BS but I'm not seeing the facts that supports such claims. 

Without Xbox Live, indie games genre would not be where they are now.

PS3 has 3 good indie success stories, all from the same developer, which was close to becoming bankrupt forcing their next title to be multiplatform.

On the Xbox 360, there are dozens of hugely successful indie games, exclusive or otherwise and I can't think of a single developer that has gone bankrupt as a result of choosing xbox 360.

If you are an indie developer, it would be stupid not to support the 360.

I'm not seeing any facts from you, either.

As for success stories, it's a bit silly to say PSN has only had three.  That doesn't even make any sense, considering how many indie developers have come out to say that their experience with Microsoft was the worst of this generation.  Brian Provinciano, referenced in this article, has said that the XBLA version of his last game cost more than all the others, made less money than the PSN or Steam versions, and got very little support from Microsoft.  Many other developers have said the same thing.  Many, many developers have been very happy with thier PSN releases--how are those not success stories?

Microsoft beat Sony on this front early this gen but then got complacent, which allowed Sony to catch up and pass them.  Sony, right now, has a much better reputation in the indie circle.  Like it or not, it's true.  Microsoft has lost ground, and unless they decide to pull their heads out ot the sand, they will lose more ground in the future.  It's really up to them.


You have no clue what you are talking about,  Brian launched his game 3 months later on XBLA than PSN/Steam and sold not so much less than on PSN or Steam.    And he must be lucky he got money from it because on the Wii he not passed the Treshold and did not receive a pay out. 

This is just some indies throwing shit around. Like the Fez guy who got years to work on his game then release it with bugs and complain he has to pay for updating the game like any other indie have to do...   They feel they are pushed but at the same time indies like the behemoth studios has been working 5 years on Battle block theater and we are having another great month for indies on XBLA.   Where did you come up with all this stuff?



 

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scat398 said:

Reputation doesn't make you money, like it or not MS is more successful in the indie market that Sony is, a lot more successful. Sony needs ot turn some of this reputation building into profit building.

That's largely my understanding as well. Microsoft may be a pain in the ass to work with, but developers apparently do it for the profits. Although I'm gathering that the profit levels are dropping, hence the increased complaints.



pokoko said:
scat398 said:

Reputation doesn't make you money, like it or not MS is more successful in the indie market that Sony is, a lot more successful. Sony needs ot turn some of this reputation building into profit building.

Sources?

If you don't name some recent examples then this won't go anywhere.  On Sony's side, they're getting The Witness as a limited exclusive for no other reason than the developer had a horrible time working with Microsoft.  Microsoft has alienated guys like Ron Carmel, Jakub Dvorský, and Team Meat.  How is can it be "more successful" when some of the most well-known indie developers are looking to other platforms first?  Retro City Rampage did far, far better on PSN than XBLA--how does that translate to more successful?

You're gonna have to explain what you're talking about.

You mean a developper who gets the privilege and probably some cash to introduce his game with a lot media attention...And again the Retro city rampage example is that all you can say >_>.?



 

This seems like a dream. I mean

“Sony’s been incredibly supportive and promoted the game very well,” said Provinciano. “It’s received a generous amount of promotion at no cost to me, from [advertisements] on the PS Store to events such as E3 and even having it playable on kiosks at every Walmart, Best Buy, GameStop, Target and Future Shop across North America.”

“Never in my wildest dreams would I have expected this to happen,” he said.

How the hell can that be possible?



Lostplanet22 said:


You have no clue what you are talking about,  Brian launched his game 3 months later on XBLA than PSN/Steam and sold not so much less than on PSN or Steam.    And he must be lucky he got money from it because on the Wii he not passed the Treshold and did not receive a pay out.

"Despite the bad rap that PlayStation Vita has been getting as of late, developer Brian Provinciano (creator of Retro City Rampage) says that indie developers should give the system a second look. He also says that the Vita version of RCR has been the most successful.

In a tweet he sent today, Provinciano stated: "Indies should definitely jump onto the PS Vita. RCR's sold much more on PSN than XBLA and more on PS Vita than even PS3."

After some of his followers asked questions regarding whether that included versions of RCR released for free to PlayStation Plus subscribers, he responded: "This doesn't include PS Plus. It's _SOLD_ far more on PSN than XBLA. With PS Plus, there are a bajillion more copies out there"

He also compared PSN sales to RCR's Steam sales: "Steam's done far better than XBLA too, but PSN has still done the best."

He also appeared critical of Microsoft's Xbox Live Arcade, tweeting, "[It took] two bouts of 6+ months of pitching, paperwork, negotiation just to get onto XBLA. It's absurd. They don't make it easy." and added, "It cost more to do the XBLA version than all other SKUs combined. Made more on all other platforms. XBLA: 'a learning experience.'"

Conversely he praised both Nintendo and Sony saying, "Nintendo's great to work with. Both Sony and Nintendo are welcoming to indies."

It's interesting, and definitely echoes what we've heard from other indie devs, who seem more and more disenchanted with Xbox Live Arcade."   http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/02/26/retro-city-rampage-developer-says-vita-version-most-successful.aspx



360 games always sold good on xbox because they had everything pretty much set up from the start like having a service like summer of Arcade

Sony now has a service like that to finally put newer games in the spotlight and give the consumer good deals with the purchases.

Sony also chopped down on the share feature because supposedly everybody on psn was sharing their games instead of buying them so this was another reason for things not selling to their potential on there. I think PSN on PS4 will do a lot better because its starting off on time and everything is more in place with this new start