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Forums - Gaming - Microsoft pushed back next Xbox reveal because it's not afraid of PS4?

Imaginedvl on 09 April 2013
theprof00 said:
Imaginedvl said:

No need to explain me the archicture of Sony's MB... The thing is that you have "no clue" about Microsoft's MB and this is exactly what I'm trying to say. It is definitely my personnal oppinion but rumors are rumors... And early dev kits != final console. And this is EXACTLY what I'm saying; that Microsoft may come out with gDDR5 as a surprise (with the right MB architecture) and nothing is set in stone.

You have the right to believe in rumors... I just don't believe in them; this is why I stay at high level and I'm not trying to already explain what Microsoft can or cannot do with their console as we have no idea what will be the final specs. 

By the way; thank you for explaining in details these things; they are relevant in general for people who believe in all rumors arround Microsoft's next console. Just do not be arrogant (bold quote) with me because I do not buy them.

A lot of people who argue with me throw out empty statements, so I'll forgive you for the bolded. The truth is, MS already laid down their architecture by saying 8GB ddr3.

MS doesn't require gddr5 because they've tackled the issue in a different way, by using a special EDRAM. Maybe you haven't read about it?

And no, sorry, but it is too late in the game to change motherboards. System design is a very lengthy, expensive process. Shit, I even believe that manufacturing of their processors has already started as of LAST YEAR. Do you see how much time is required? No? Then that's why you believe they could make this upgrade. It's not happening Imagine, and I will bet you a month long ban that it won't.

Well, then I'm sorry if I missed that official statement from Microsoft... I do not believe in rumor or "leaked" early dev. kits as final spec; but if Microsoft officialy stated that; then I cannot arg with you about it :)

Do you have a link?



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theprof00 on 09 April 2013
walsufnir said:
theprof00 said:
Imaginedvl said:
HokageTenshi said:

since its too late for them to change their RAM to GDDR5, they might preparing to make a shock news to announce the NextXbox will comes with 16GB RAM will this become more better than PS4 8GB GDDR5...??

Why it is too late for Microsoft? Sony did it at the last minute...

And even if you are one of those who believe Sony kept it secret; then Microsoft could do the same.

Just to clue you in on the facts of life, the largest size gddr5 chip is 512Mb.

Sony is using 16 Ram chips to get to 8Gb.

If Microsoft is using a motherboard that accustoms regular ram 2x4GB or 4x2GB, then they have insufficient slots available to upgrade to gddr5. They would only be able to fit 2GB.

Like I said, they would have to completely redesign the motherboard to accomodate more slots.

Sony simply had 16 slots of 256MB GDDR5, and upgraded to 512MB GDDR5.

That's the difference.

*sigh* No. There is nothing like "slots" on the board... The chips are soldered at the "motherboard". It is far away from a standard motherboard like you perhaps know in PCs. The talking of slots is just wrong.

According to Sony, there will be upgradeable slots, but yes, maybe they're talking about something else.

Anyway, the point is, there is no room on the motherboard. They take up the same space, just there's 16 of them instead of 4.



theprof00 on 09 April 2013
Imaginedvl said:
theprof00 said:
Imaginedvl said:

No need to explain me the archicture of Sony's MB... The thing is that you have "no clue" about Microsoft's MB and this is exactly what I'm trying to say. It is definitely my personnal oppinion but rumors are rumors... And early dev kits != final console. And this is EXACTLY what I'm saying; that Microsoft may come out with gDDR5 as a surprise (with the right MB architecture) and nothing is set in stone.

You have the right to believe in rumors... I just don't believe in them; this is why I stay at high level and I'm not trying to already explain what Microsoft can or cannot do with their console as we have no idea what will be the final specs. 

By the way; thank you for explaining in details these things; they are relevant in general for people who believe in all rumors arround Microsoft's next console. Just do not be arrogant (bold quote) with me because I do not buy them.

A lot of people who argue with me throw out empty statements, so I'll forgive you for the bolded. The truth is, MS already laid down their architecture by saying 8GB ddr3.

MS doesn't require gddr5 because they've tackled the issue in a different way, by using a special EDRAM. Maybe you haven't read about it?

And no, sorry, but it is too late in the game to change motherboards. System design is a very lengthy, expensive process. Shit, I even believe that manufacturing of their processors has already started as of LAST YEAR. Do you see how much time is required? No? Then that's why you believe they could make this upgrade. It's not happening Imagine, and I will bet you a month long ban that it won't.

Well, then I'm sorry if I missed that official statement from Microsoft... I do not believe in rumor or "leaked" early dev. kits as final spec; but if Microsoft officialy stated that; then I cannot arg with you about it :)

Do you have a link?

that was the link from the guy who was arrested (under subpoena by microsoft itself)



Imaginedvl on 09 April 2013
theprof00 said:
Imaginedvl said:
theprof00 said:
Imaginedvl said:

A lot of people who argue with me throw out empty statements, so I'll forgive you for the bolded. The truth is, MS already laid down their architecture by saying 8GB ddr3.

MS doesn't require gddr5 because they've tackled the issue in a different way, by using a special EDRAM. Maybe you haven't read about it?

And no, sorry, but it is too late in the game to change motherboards. System design is a very lengthy, expensive process. Shit, I even believe that manufacturing of their processors has already started as of LAST YEAR. Do you see how much time is required? No? Then that's why you believe they could make this upgrade. It's not happening Imagine, and I will bet you a month long ban that it won't.

Well, then I'm sorry if I missed that official statement from Microsoft... I do not believe in rumor or "leaked" early dev. kits as final spec; but if Microsoft officialy stated that; then I cannot arg with you about it :)

Do you have a link?

that was the link from the guy who was arrested (under subpoena by microsoft itself)

There you go... Back to square zero :)
This is not the final console or motherboard. And in no way this is an official Microsoft statement so when you said that "Microsoft laid down their architecture by saying", you are just referring to rumors or early dev. kits leak (or more recent but still not final specs). 

My point then is still valid; until Microsoft really show up their console; everything is just speculations and everything is possible.




walsufnir on 09 April 2013
theprof00 said:
walsufnir said:
theprof00 said:
Imaginedvl said:
HokageTenshi said:

since its too late for them to change their RAM to GDDR5, they might preparing to make a shock news to announce the NextXbox will comes with 16GB RAM will this become more better than PS4 8GB GDDR5...??

Why it is too late for Microsoft? Sony did it at the last minute...

And even if you are one of those who believe Sony kept it secret; then Microsoft could do the same.

Just to clue you in on the facts of life, the largest size gddr5 chip is 512Mb.

Sony is using 16 Ram chips to get to 8Gb.

If Microsoft is using a motherboard that accustoms regular ram 2x4GB or 4x2GB, then they have insufficient slots available to upgrade to gddr5. They would only be able to fit 2GB.

Like I said, they would have to completely redesign the motherboard to accomodate more slots.

Sony simply had 16 slots of 256MB GDDR5, and upgraded to 512MB GDDR5.

That's the difference.

*sigh* No. There is nothing like "slots" on the board... The chips are soldered at the "motherboard". It is far away from a standard motherboard like you perhaps know in PCs. The talking of slots is just wrong.

According to Sony, there will be upgradeable slots, but yes, maybe they're talking about something else.

Anyway, the point is, there is no room on the motherboard. They take up the same space, just there's 16 of them instead of 4.


They must be talking about something else. I will explain to you:

This is a standard module:

What they are doing is they take the black parts of it (most probably at another size) and solder it to the mainboard. The RAM itself is the black chips.



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theprof00 on 09 April 2013
Imaginedvl said:

There you go... Back to square zero :)
This is not the final console or motherboard. And in no way this is an official Microsoft statement so when you said that "Microsoft laid down their architecture by saying", you are just referring to rumors or early dev. kits leak (or more recent but still not final specs). 

My point then is still valid; until Microsoft really show up their console; everything is just speculations and everything is possible.

Your only point is that nobody knows anything. Are you a nihilist? Why even bother arguing anything when nothing matters and nothing can be analyzed? Why do people always argue with me about analysis??????

I at least use evidence to back up my statements and analysis, I don't just state what I want to happen and then say "who knows". The devs had gddr5 memory, they just didn't know it would be 8GB. That should, in one way or another, show you that only a certain amount can change, ie; chip memory size. Sony didn't change the mobo or the type of ram, they just increased the chip memory size. There are certain limitations.

I know what you are saying is that the dev kits could all be just prototypes and the system could be completely different, but that is not reason enough to argue with me saying that it'll be something else. That's just conjecture based on the idea that all rumors and prototypes are completely wrong, which is a stretch.



J_Allard on 09 April 2013

Well since all Nextbox rumors are taken as fact, I guess this is confirmed then. Apparently MS was as unimpressed with the new Killzone as I was.



theprof00 on 09 April 2013
walsufnir said:
theprof00 said:
walsufnir said:
theprof00 said:
Imaginedvl said:
HokageTenshi said:

since its too late for them to change their RAM to GDDR5, they might preparing to make a shock news to announce the NextXbox will comes with 16GB RAM will this become more better than PS4 8GB GDDR5...??

Why it is too late for Microsoft? Sony did it at the last minute...

And even if you are one of those who believe Sony kept it secret; then Microsoft could do the same.

Just to clue you in on the facts of life, the largest size gddr5 chip is 512Mb.

Sony is using 16 Ram chips to get to 8Gb.

If Microsoft is using a motherboard that accustoms regular ram 2x4GB or 4x2GB, then they have insufficient slots available to upgrade to gddr5. They would only be able to fit 2GB.

Like I said, they would have to completely redesign the motherboard to accomodate more slots.

Sony simply had 16 slots of 256MB GDDR5, and upgraded to 512MB GDDR5.

That's the difference.

*sigh* No. There is nothing like "slots" on the board... The chips are soldered at the "motherboard". It is far away from a standard motherboard like you perhaps know in PCs. The talking of slots is just wrong.

According to Sony, there will be upgradeable slots, but yes, maybe they're talking about something else.

Anyway, the point is, there is no room on the motherboard. They take up the same space, just there's 16 of them instead of 4.


They must be talking about something else. I will explain to you:

This is a standard module:

What they are doing is they take the black parts of it (most probably at another size) and solder it to the mainboard. The RAM itself is the black chips.

Yes I know, I understand that. it looked different in a prototype I saw though, they weren't soldered to the board, they were angled up. Don't know if I can find that pic though.

From the side it looked like this ___________
But not _____|_|_|_|__



walsufnir on 09 April 2013
theprof00 said:
walsufnir said:
theprof00 said:
walsufnir said:
theprof00 said:
Imaginedvl said:
HokageTenshi said:

since its too late for them to change their RAM to GDDR5, they might preparing to make a shock news to announce the NextXbox will comes with 16GB RAM will this become more better than PS4 8GB GDDR5...??

Why it is too late for Microsoft? Sony did it at the last minute...

And even if you are one of those who believe Sony kept it secret; then Microsoft could do the same.

Just to clue you in on the facts of life, the largest size gddr5 chip is 512Mb.

Sony is using 16 Ram chips to get to 8Gb.

If Microsoft is using a motherboard that accustoms regular ram 2x4GB or 4x2GB, then they have insufficient slots available to upgrade to gddr5. They would only be able to fit 2GB.

Like I said, they would have to completely redesign the motherboard to accomodate more slots.

Sony simply had 16 slots of 256MB GDDR5, and upgraded to 512MB GDDR5.

That's the difference.

*sigh* No. There is nothing like "slots" on the board... The chips are soldered at the "motherboard". It is far away from a standard motherboard like you perhaps know in PCs. The talking of slots is just wrong.

According to Sony, there will be upgradeable slots, but yes, maybe they're talking about something else.

Anyway, the point is, there is no room on the motherboard. They take up the same space, just there's 16 of them instead of 4.


They must be talking about something else. I will explain to you:

This is a standard module:

What they are doing is they take the black parts of it (most probably at another size) and solder it to the mainboard. The RAM itself is the black chips.

Yes I know, I understand that. it looked different in a prototype I saw though, they weren't soldered to the board, they were angled up. Don't know if I can find that pic though.

From the side it looked like this ___________
But not _____|_|_|_|__


Exactly.



theprof00 on 09 April 2013
walsufnir said:

Exactly.

lol, my backslashes disappeared.