Kynes said: No, ethomaz, there is no hardware bottleneck per se. You see bottlenecks when you execute code. As an example, the shading/bandwidth ratio has changed a lot with the years, graphics cards adapted to the engines used now are very inefficient with old engines, and will be inefficient in the future.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc615011(v=bts.10).aspx

"The source of the bottleneck could be hardware or software related. When resources are underused, it is usually an indication of a bottleneck. Bottlenecks can be caused by hardware limitations, by inefficient software configurations, or by both."

I'm trying to say to you the hardware limitation is not already related to bottlenecks... hardware limitation can cause bottleneck? It can... but every hardware limitation cause bottleneck? No... in most cases the bottleneck is software. You are just confusing everything... reach 100% of a component is not a bottleneck... it is a limitation and that limitation can cause or not a bottleneck.

All examples you gave us is software bottleneck... the developer choose to make a software that not use all the hardware at 100%... the hardware have no issue or bottleneck. The PS4 hardware is balanced at point no component is strong enough to other to create a hardware bottleneck but software bottleneck will always exists.

That what they the Gerrilha's guy is trying to say.

A better example... you can stress the PS4 GPU without any other component create a bottleneck for it... you can stress the PS4 CPU withou any other component create a bottleneck for it... you can use all the 176GB/s bandwidth of the RAM without any other component create a bottleneck for it.

You can't stress the Wii U GPU only with the 12GB/s bandwidth of the RAM... it is a hardware bottleneck... you need to use the eDRAM to try to avoid that bottleneck.

Better now?

ethomaz said: Kynes said: No, ethomaz, there is no hardware bottleneck per se. You see bottlenecks when you execute code. As an example, the shading/bandwidth ratio has changed a lot with the years, graphics cards adapted to the engines used now are very inefficient with old engines, and will be inefficient in the future. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc615011(v=bts.10).aspx "The source of the bottleneck could be hardware or software related. When resources are underused, it is usually an indication of a bottleneck. Bottlenecks can be caused by hardware limitations, by inefficient software configurations, or by both." I'm trying to say to you the hardware limitation is not already related to bottlenecks... hardware limitation can cause bottleneck? It can... but every hardware limitation cause bottleneck? No... in most cases the bottleneck is software. You are just confusing everything... reach 100% of a component is not a bottleneck... it is a limitation and that limitation can cause or not a bottleneck. All examples you gave us is software bottleneck... the developer choose to make a software that not use all the hardware at 100%... the hardware have no issue or bottleneck. The PS4 hardware is balanced at point no component is strong enough to other to create a hardware bottleneck but software bottleneck will always exists. That what they the Gerrilha's guy is trying to say. A better example... you can stress the PS4 GPU without any other component create a bottleneck for it... you can stress the PS4 CPU withou any other component create a bottleneck for it... you can use all the 176GB/s bandwidth of the RAM without any other component create a bottleneck for it. You can't stress the Wii U GPU only with the 12GB/s bandwidth of the RAM... it is a hardware bottleneck... you need to use the eDRAM to try to avoid that bottleneck. Better now?

Of course you can, you just need to do many shader ops per pixel. That way you use all your flops without using all your bandwidth.

What you call hardware bottlenecks means that you don't have enough hardware performance for the algorithm you want to do. Software bottlenecks in this MS article refers to lock states as pipeline bubbles due to needing one op result to do the next operation or database locks, they have nothing to do with bad programming. Sometimes your only option is to wait.

First Party developer praising own platform? Huge shocker right there.

LivingMetal said: According to the press at the time, yes.  According to Sony, no.  Sony themselves never claimed this.

Actually Sony PR said you could achieve graphics comparable to movie quality 3D graphics. The press said Toy Story, but seeing how that is a 3D animation movie that was around at the time, it's no different than what Sony themselves said.

CGI-Quality said: Kynes said: You know what is scarier? People who have no self judgment and believe what reinforces their believes without analyzing if it can be true or not. It's sad that no PS fan has another PoV than believing it. I haven't seen one PS fan doubt this PR catchphrase. At least I'm no longer lumped in with PlayStation fans, anymore!

You are not only a ps fan

CGI-Quality said: At least I'm no longer lumped in with PlayStation fans, anymore!

You will be always a PS fan

CGI-Quality said: Kynes said: CGI-Quality said: Kynes said: You know what is scarier? People who have no self judgment and believe what reinforces their believes without analyzing if it can be true or not. It's sad that no PS fan has another PoV than believing it. I haven't seen one PS fan doubt this PR catchphrase. At least I'm no longer lumped in with PlayStation fans, anymore! You are not only a ps fan Indeed, I'm a fan of all brands. ;)

But like in the animal farm, some more than others

CGI-Quality said: Kynes said: CGI-Quality said: Kynes said: CGI-Quality said: Kynes said: You know what is scarier? People who have no self judgment and believe what reinforces their believes without analyzing if it can be true or not. It's sad that no PS fan has another PoV than believing it. I haven't seen one PS fan doubt this PR catchphrase. At least I'm no longer lumped in with PlayStation fans, anymore! You are not only a ps fan Indeed, I'm a fan of all brands. ;) But like in the animal farm, some more than others Of course, PC is king!

Don't lie, pig

SENTIENT6 said: Kynes said: That's the stupidest thing a developer could say, it's clearly a PR catchphrase that parrots will repeat. Every system has bottlenecks, wider or narrower, but you always find components that limit you. You can have more than one bottleneck, and they can be different bottlenecks depending of the engine and game. Sometimes it can be the memory subsystem, sometimes the cpu, sometimes the gpu. You can even have bottlenecks inside the gpu, in the shading power, TMUs, tessellation units... Here come the experts who know more then the experts lmao. Maybe For the game they are making they have not hit any bottlenecks. I love how everyone on a forum is a developer or financial expert.

Well yeah.  Aren't you one of those things?  I'm Kaz Hirai in real life.  Glad to see people excited for PS.  Sorry we don't have any bottlenecks for MS to make fun of.  I guess they just have to...how would they say this?  DEAL WITH IT!

Why is it not in 60 FPS then?