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Forums - Nintendo - Put a fork in the Wii U, it is done. [Sensible discussion only, no flaming]

VGKing on 23 March 2013

It's the Vita situation all over again. Wait for this game, wait for that game, wait for Christmas...Wii U has already had a Christmas and it has 2D Mario and a decent amount of 3rd party games.

People are seeing clearly now. A console doesn't just magically recover from these kind of sales. It's going to take a whole re-launch for the Wii U to take off.(Combine that with a big 1st party IP and price cut)



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Player1x3 on 23 March 2013
Resident_Hazard said:
Captain_Tom said:

I personally dropped the expensive XB Live account for the Wii U and PS3. I do very little online gaming, thus far do not miss Achievements (and don't care about Trophies on my PS3).  Sony already doesn't allow you to carry over games you purchased on the PS3 to the PS4, so maintaining an account there seems a little hollow.

You are not the majority of gamers. Online gaming is the reason why COD became so popular and why the industry grew so much in this gen. It's also contributing to the lenght of this gen, for as we can see, PS3 is still sellin about 130k a week in its 6th years and wii struggles to sell above 25k.

So what?  The DS was roughly the same power as an optimized, efficient N64.  The Wii was roughly the same power as an efficient original Xbox.  The PSP was just a portable PS2.  What's your point?  RAM does not magically equal quality games.

It doesnt, but it attracts more developers. DS, being a Nintendo handheld, would still get insane amount of 3rd party support, simply because of its popularity. If it had the power of PSP, PSP would be dead in its 1st year. Wii's weak hardware is actually one of the reasons why it recieved horrible 3rd party support this gen, and PSP piracy and hacking killed its software support.

 

Using the Vita like the GamePad is highly unintuitive and very simply, not consumer-friendly.  It is not a feature that will be widely used.  Microsoft SmartGlass is essentially a failure and was a flawed concept from the start.  Microsoft potentially having a tablet controller will not hurt the Wii U. Rather, it has the potential for creating that format as a new industry norm, and any game built on Wii U or Durango would make sense on the other--pretty much all modern game engines are scalable, so anything made for the Durango can be scaled back to the Wii U--and the leap to the Durango and PS4 is noted for not being as drastic as the leap from Xbox to X360 or PS2 to PS3, technologically.  

Thats not the point really. The point is, MS and Sony offer pretty much the same feature together with supperior hardware, more media options and better 3rd party support on their next gen systems.  And actually, if you use raw numbers, jump from PS3 to PS4 is the biggest so far (16x)

 

The EXACT SAME THING will be true of the PS4 and Durango, and to be perfectly frank, is becoming increasingly true of the X360 as Microsoft gradually loses more and more 1st party games.  People like you complained before that the Wii was a failure because it DIDN'T have the exact same third party games as everyone else, now because the Wii U will, you think it's a failure again?  A good 99% of "compelling 3rd party games" these days will always be multiplatform in some way or another.

Uh, what? Both PS3 and 360 had bilion times better 3rd party support than Wii this gen, and i really dont see how is that going to change in the next gen. As for the 1st party support, PS3 in its soon 7th year has Ni No Kuni, GOW Ascension, TLoU, Beyond and possibly Gran Turismo 6 or Last Guardian. What does Wii have this year? Better yet, what does even Wii U have this year?

 

Long load times are here to stay, even on the PS3 which REQUIRES installation of almost every game. This hardly matters as 3rd party devs are used to it by now. Games will have ample DLC, and several already do.  Any harddrive can be attached and most harddrive space of the PS3 is taken up by forced installation of games, not DLC.  This is an illogical reason for third party devs to develop on the system.

Yeah, the only problem is, Nintendo was smart enough to include 4, FUCKING 4 GB's of HDD on WiiU!!! PS4 RAM has double the memory, for Christ's sake!!! This is a whole new level of primitive technology by Nintendo. I mean, you can barely install 2-3 games on the system. Its pitful

You're making an assumption based on one game.

If WiiU owners struggle to install this gen's games on their HDD, just image what kind of nightmares they will have with the next gen games, which will be 3-4 timess bigger than the games today (that is, if they even get the games)

Where are you getting these magic numbers and assumptions?  The only consoles I know of with installed bases of 150 million are the PS2 and original DS.  The GameCube and Wii were notable for being developer-friendly, and the Wii U follows the same design principle.

He probably meant the install base of PS360 together. And he's right, the PS4 has recieved numerous praise for its easy architecture, not to mention powerfull hardware. The problem with Wii U isnt that its not user friendly, its that its using and old and outdated hardware.

 

Price cuts pretty much always lead to increased sales, especially with accompanying advertising.  By the time the PS4 and Durango launch, sales of the PS3 and X360 will begin to decline, and will decline rapidly by late 2014 when the sophomore releases for the PS4 and Durango finally show them off.  At the time the PS4 and Durango launch, the Wii U will be seeing it's all-important sophomore releases hit the market, and this is typically when a console starts to see it's first major "defining" titles.  Note: This is the period when Gears of War and Halo 3 launched on the X360.  The year before those games was mostly crap for the Xbox 360.

Price cut didnt really help GameCube much, did it? And PS3 has yeat to reach massive market price (199$) and to have its system seller released for the 2nd time (GT6- we had 6 Halos on 360, God knows how many Marios on Wii, but only 1 Gran Turismo on PS3), so I'd say PS3 still has a lot of life left in it, Sony knows how to support their hardware (hell, even the PS2 is still selling today). After seeing the graphics of Beyond:2 souls, it even still can amaze us with its graphics. And what are these ''defining'' titles for Wii U? You dont even know, do you? Oh, let me guess, another Mario game? Seriously now...Theres a rumour that the next COD will be next-gen exclusive (no WiiU included, of course) and if thats true, it will considerably boost PS4 and Durango sales.

No it's not and raw power does not magically translate into hardware sales. Do I need to do my analysis here? The most powerful hardware has NEVER been the market leader in development or sales.

Thats not what he said, he said that that's where the hardcore goes. And they are the reliable market, not the casual fad of an audience Wii's userbase mostly consisted of. The casuals will jump on the ''next cool thing'' while the hardcores will stay loyal to the hobby/industry. Thats why Wii dropped so incredibly quickly, and why PS3 is still going strong.

The Dreamcast only sold about 10 million it's two years on the market.  The Wii U is roughly half that already.

I doubt WiiU will do as bad as DreamCast, but i dont excpect it to do higher than SNES numbers.
 

 

 

It's pretty mindless to dismiss the Wii U after only four months, regardless of it's current sales.  Anyone who knows anything about gaming history knows that the first year is always plagued with low sales, long droughts, and ports of 3rd party games you could get elsewhere.  The same was true of the X360, PS3, 3DS, Wii, Vita, Dreamcast, PS2, GameCube, etc.

Yeah, except that most if not all of those systems sold better withing the same timeframe than Wii U did, some of them even had a higher price point.

 

While the Wii U is more powerful than the Vita, they make a great pair (possibly along with Project Shield) for developers to make a different range of multiplatform games outside of the PS4/Durnago/Steambox/PC market--and possibly including all of them.

Developers are divided into the ones that develop/dedicadde themselves to consoles and the ones who dedicate themselves to handhelds. People who were never interested in consoles wont magically start making games for WiiU and vice versa for VITA.


My answers in bold underlines.



Player1x3 on 23 March 2013

...also, if I might add, I've never seen such an enormous amount of irrational defense for Wii U anywhere on the internet. Some people here just have big problems with facts and accepting reality of a situation their beloved console is in



osed125 on 23 March 2013
Player1x3 said:
...also, if I might add, I've never seen such an enormous amount of irrational defense for Wii U anywhere on the internet. Some people here just have big problems with facts and accepting reality of a situation their beloved console is in

No different than people defending the PS3, 3DS and Vita.



Nintendo and PC gamer

RazorDragon on 23 March 2013
Player1x3 said:
...also, if I might add, I've never seen such an enormous amount of irrational defense for Wii U anywhere on the internet. Some people here just have big problems with facts and accepting reality of a situation their beloved console is in


Maybe that's because of the enormous amount of irrational doom threads for Wii U everywhere on the internet. Seems like Vita's situation for me, except Vita's release was 1 year ago and Wii U was released only 4 months ago.



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Mr Khan on 23 March 2013
Player1x3 said:
...also, if I might add, I've never seen such an enormous amount of irrational defense for Wii U anywhere on the internet. Some people here just have big problems with facts and accepting reality of a situation their beloved console is in

I could say the same thing for people's irrational determination to make the "Wii U is dead" argument sound conclusive.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Player1x3 on 23 March 2013
Mr Khan said:
Player1x3 said:
...also, if I might add, I've never seen such an enormous amount of irrational defense for Wii U anywhere on the internet. Some people here just have big problems with facts and accepting reality of a situation their beloved console is in

I could say the same thing for people's irrational determination to make the "Wii U is dead" argument sound conclusive. 

 

Except that that argument has some sort of backing up behind it, not just ''wait till... *insert excuse here*



Player1x3 on 23 March 2013
osed125 said:
Player1x3 said:
...also, if I might add, I've never seen such an enormous amount of irrational defense for Wii U anywhere on the internet. Some people here just have big problems with facts and accepting reality of a situation their beloved console is in

No different than people defending the PS3, 3DS and Vita.


PS3 and 3DS dont need any defending, numbers speak for themselves. Vita...pretty much everyone accepts its near dead, altho the lastest price cut in Japan shows some hope



Nirvana_Nut85 on 23 March 2013
Osc89 said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:

Let's also not forget that the Wii U will have a worldwide price cut and a much better library when each system releases.


This isn't necessarily true. If the PS4 has Gaikai running and 720 has backwards compatibilty then they might be able to leverage that.

Your forgetting that Nintendo will have it's Virtual Console fully up and running with significant back catalog of games by that time (indie games should be quite more substantial by that time as well), Not to mention whatever AAA titles they release against the launch of PS4/720.



" Rebellion Against Tyrants Is Obedience To God"

Akvod on 23 March 2013
Final-Fan said:
Akvod said:
I thought Michael Pachter had a pretty simple and compelling argument. You mainly make money off of consoles by:
1) Royalties/Licensing fees from third party games.
2) Selling your consoles at a profit
[...]
So you basically have Nintendo not generating profit from method 1 and 2, and also limiting their ability to maximize revenue from software due to releasing on only 1 platform.
From an opportunity cost perspective, Nintendo is wasting its shareholder's money.

HAHAHA wow

If you ignore profits from first party software it's a lot easier to argue that Nintendo is not doing well...

I don't think you understood my post.

Point 1) I said "You mainly make money off of CONSOLES". You need to seperate out the revenue streams from the console and the software. Why?

Point 2) Pachter's point is that since Nintendo isn't gaining profit from the console business (due to low margins and lack of 3'rd party support), the software business is propping up a dead business. Pachter's arguing that Nintendo could make more money, by not selling Nintendo software on only one platform, but on three (and more with the next gens).

Is Pachter's argument completely full proof? No. You could take a very, very long horizon and say that Nintendo should stay in because they could do a better job with their next console. I would personally play the devil's advocate by saying that Nintendo's family friendly image and segment is valuable, and gives something Sony and Microsoft lack (although that could change with Microsoft ramping up Kinect).

But anyways, you didn't really understand the post and you didn't address Pachter's points.

 

1) Do you agree or disagree that the profits from the CONSOLES are high or low?

2) Do you believe that Nintendo's software business benefits more from only being exclusive to Nintendo's hardware (or by the hardware platform existing), or do you believe that Nintendo could make more money with its software business by selling on more platforms?

3) How long is your horizon, and how much future benefit do you think Nintendo will have by continuing it's current strategy now?

 

Watch the video again: