By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Put a fork in the Wii U, it is done. [Sensible discussion only, no flaming]

Final-Fan said:
Akvod said:
Final-Fan said:

HAHAHA wow
If you ignore profits from first party software it's a lot easier to argue that Nintendo is not doing well...

I don't think you understood my post.

Point 1) I said "You mainly make money off of CONSOLES". You need to seperate out the revenue streams from the console and the software. Why?

Point 2) Pachter's point is that since Nintendo isn't gaining profit from the console business (due to low margins and lack of 3'rd party support), the software business is propping up a dead business. Pachter's arguing that Nintendo could make more money, by not selling Nintendo software on only one platform, but on three (and more with the next gens).

Is Pachter's argument completely full proof? No. You could take a very, very long horizon and say that Nintendo should stay in because they could do a better job with their next console. I would personally play the devil's advocate by saying that Nintendo's family friendly image and segment is valuable, and gives something Sony and Microsoft lack (although that could change with Microsoft ramping up Kinect).

But anyways, you didn't really understand the post and you didn't address Pachter's points.

1) Do you agree or disagree that the profits from the CONSOLES are high or low?

2) Do you believe that Nintendo's software business benefits more from only being exclusive to Nintendo's hardware (or by the hardware platform existing), or do you believe that Nintendo could make more money with its software business by selling on more platforms?

3) How long is your horizon, and how much future benefit do you think Nintendo will have by continuing it's current strategy now?

Fair enough, I didn't watch the video and thought the argument that Nintendo is doing bad, not that "Nintendo is doing fine but could do better by abandoning the console hardware market". 

1.  I don't know the data on how profitable Nintendo is on their consoles.  However, I do have a couple things to say on that subject.  Firstly, I had to stop the video when Pachter said that the WiiU is barely making a profit now per console, as opposed to "$100+" for the Wii at launch.  I think that is a hilarious criticism, not only because I find it hard to believe the Wii was that profitable at launch (though again I have no data) but because the fact that it is profitable at all is a much better situation than the two competitors' consoles were last gen, and I'd be very surprised if they did better than Nintendo is now with their upcoming consoles, and not at all surprised if they did worse (with respect to profit/loss per unit).  Secondly, I would point out that Nintendo also makes money on controllers and other peripherals which they would not, or to greatly lesser extent, were they to cease manufacturing consoles. 

Well, Pachter is the stock analyst that has 4 degrees (went to business school), and analyzes stocks and businesses for a living. So given that you have no data to say otherwise, I'm going to give Pachter the benefit of the doubt.

As for the other competitors selling at a loss, that's because their business model is more weighted towards royalty payments from 3'rd party developers, in contrast to Nintendo, who has been alienating 3'rd party developers.

Very, very good point with the peripherals. Although, I don't really see as much potential for peripherals with the WiiU, in contrast to the Wii.

2.  I think Nintendo benefits strategically from being in the position of dictating their own hardware abilities, like motion sensing on the Wii, or dual screens or a touchscreen on the DS, which would be basically impossible for a software developer to do.  The most they could possibly hope to achieve in that case would be via peripherals like the Wii Balance Board that Wii Fit uses, which was successful but nothing like the same scale.  They probably wouldn't be able to require players to get one for all their games and there would also probably be hardware limitations on the console end of what functionality would even be possible in a peripheral. 

I think you're putting too much weight on the hardware abilities. If you're arguing from a creative freedom perspective, that's a bit more compelling, but I don't see that really translating much in terms of business/sales. I'm not really sure if Mario or Zelda games are known for, or that people buy games from these two series due to "innovative" controls. And again, let's just assume sales will go down and/or the quality of the games will go down due to less freedom over hardware.

Will those be so large as to offset the expansion in customer base by selling on another platform?

Antoher aspect is that Nintendo obviously doesn't have to pay royalties to other companies while putting software on its own console, which they would have to do if they "pulled a Sega".  So I think that Nintendo may derive tangible advantage, and definitely derives intangible advantage, by maintaining itself as a console maker. 

Again, you need to look at it from a cost benefit perspective. Do you honestly believe that the royalties are so large that it'll offset the expansion in customer base?

The counterargument would be that being a console maker means they are effectively prevented from releasing major multiplatform games, because doing so would undermine their own console's software advantage (losing exclusives), and that this restriction loses them SO much market opportunity that it overwhelms any advantage they obtain by the ability to define their own hardware, get royalites, etc.  But I would argue that as the generation goes on, the amount of flagship Nintendo games becomes so great on the Nintendo console that a lot of the audience for their games might pick up the Nintendo console anyway.  But I may here be greatly overestimating the amount of multiplatform ownership.  Even if that reason isn't borne up by the evidence, I still think the benefits for Nintendo outweigh the drawbacks. 

The point is that there's no point in propping up the console with exclusives though. The console itself isn't making a large profit, and Nintendo's third party support doesn't seem strong. In addition to that, even if they did get developer support, will they get consumer support (again, Activision (?) executive saying that Nintendo fans are all talk).


3.  As I described in point 2, I think Nintendo draws great strategic benefit from being able to dictate the hardware on which they make games in order to be able to follow its vision on what kind of games it wants to be able to make (which depends to an extent on the hardware it is able to use to play those games on), which is an advantage it can obviously only maintain by continuing to make their own consoles. 

Nintendo's NES had the D-pad, which was univerally accepted; Nintendo's SNES included shoulder pads which were univerally accepted; Nintendo's N64 pioneered analog sticks and "rumble", both of which Sony quickly copied, etc.  You can argue that the advantage gained was fleeting because the competition was able to copy these developments, but the fact remains that if Nintendo hadn't done it first it might just not have been done, which would limit the games Nintendo could make.  At the risk of repeating myself, by remaining in a position to dictate hardware Nintendo will retain the ability to innovate in its games by innovating in player interaction. 

And again, you need to analyze things seperately.


Your claim is that: Dictating hardware->Better quality of software.

Before I go on, let me point out that this is a pretty big claim in and of itself. I'm not sure a majority of people will argue that the Wii controls were the main drivers of the quality of Mario or Zelda games (some people may say they hurt some of those games).

Now, what are the implications of your claim on the hardware and software business of Nintendo?

1) Hardware - Irrelevant. The point is that even if Nintendo's first party games are high quality, there's no point in having those games attract buyers, because of the lower profit of the consoles, and low revenue from royalties. Your best possible argument is alternative sources of revenue such as peripherals, or maybe whatever revenue Nintendo can get by having the WiiU become a living room "media center".

2) Software - Irrelvant. Unless you show that the decrease in the quality of games will result in such a decrease of sales for Nintendo that it'll result in a net decrease in sales, after Nintendo gains access to the other 2 consoles. You'll also have to show that the royalties are so onerous, that it'll lower the total profit below what Nintendo would have gotten by selling on one console, as opposed to 2 or 3.

Again, I like Pachter's argument due to it's simple logic. You have a much more uphill battle to climb, and need to do some number  crunching to prove your point IMO.



Around the Network

Since not many people noticed the Wii U is a totally new Nintendo console, if I were Nintendo I would prepare a total re-launch this fall to fight the arrival of the next-gen consoles. I would re-brand the console "Nintendo Ultra" redesign it with an internal HDD, optical audio output, 5.1 dolby/DTS support and ethernet, USB 3.0. I would make a serious effort and investment to make the Nintendo Network faster and better in every way. I would also make sure to have a new 3D Mario for the re-launch. The prices would stay the same, $300 and $350, HDD capacity matching the ones offered by the competition. I would phase out Wii U, and re-brand and re-release the existing Wii U library as Nintendo Ultra games. It seems desperate, but I think it's better than cutting the prices. Let's face it, the Wii U has a serious branding and positioning problem, cutting the price won't help it and some new games won't be enough in the long run.



I'm actually planning to get one eventually. Theres some great games from the Wii on their I want to play, and Bayonetta 2. Unfortunately I'm going to wait for the price crash.

Personally I think its a good console, great even, but what can you do. The market can't support every console manufacturer at the same time, its not feasible.



Player1x3 said:
...also, if I might add, I've never seen such an enormous amount of irrational defense for Wii U anywhere on the internet. Some people here just have big problems with facts and accepting reality of a situation their beloved console is in


I cannot believe it either.  The fact is the Wii U is doing terribly and now that pricecuts are not even helping it is looking like the Wii U truly is in dire straights.  Saying it isn't so, or changing the subject to completely different consoles with their own unique circumstances just makes you look desperate.  

 

Also I will say that I got a Vita on launch and recently thought it was in big trouble too.  In fact I was worried it was just gonna die off in a year.  But then SONY dropped the price in 1 country and sales exploded.  The Wii U's has not...



Captain_Tom said:
Player1x3 said:
...also, if I might add, I've never seen such an enormous amount of irrational defense for Wii U anywhere on the internet. Some people here just have big problems with facts and accepting reality of a situation their beloved console is in


I cannot believe it either.  The fact is the Wii U is doing terribly and now that pricecuts are not even helping it is looking like the Wii U truly is in dire straights.  Saying it isn't so, or changing the subject to completely different consoles with their own unique circumstances just makes you look desperate.  

 

Also I will say that I got a Vita on launch and recently thought it was in big trouble too.  In fact I was worried it was just gonna die off in a year.  But then SONY dropped the price in 1 country and sales exploded.  The Wii U's has not...


Vita's situation is exactly the same as Wii U's. Remember the Assassin's Creed/Call of Duty/4GB Memory Card Vita bundle and it's $200 price tag? It didn't increased Vita's sales anywhere in the world. Also, after japanese price cut, Vita sold "well" for 2 weeks(thanks to SS's release), before again having a major drop in sales.



Around the Network
Akvod said:
Final-Fan said:

Fair enough, I didn't watch the video and thought the argument that Nintendo is doing bad, not that "Nintendo is doing fine but could do better by abandoning the console hardware market". 

1.  I don't know the data on how profitable Nintendo is on their consoles.  However, I do have a couple things to say on that subject.  Firstly, I had to stop the video when Pachter said that the WiiU is barely making a profit now per console, as opposed to "$100+" for the Wii at launch.  I think that is a hilarious criticism, not only because I find it hard to believe the Wii was that profitable at launch (though again I have no data) but because the fact that it is profitable at all is a much better situation than the two competitors' consoles were last gen, and I'd be very surprised if they did better than Nintendo is now with their upcoming consoles, and not at all surprised if they did worse (with respect to profit/loss per unit).  Secondly, I would point out that Nintendo also makes money on controllers and other peripherals which they would not, or to greatly lesser extent, were they to cease manufacturing consoles.

2.  (a) I think Nintendo benefits strategically from being in the position of dictating their own hardware abilities, like motion sensing on the Wii, or dual screens or a touchscreen on the DS, which would be basically impossible for a software developer to do.  The most they could possibly hope to achieve in that case would be via peripherals like the Wii Balance Board that Wii Fit uses, which was successful but nothing like the same scale.  They probably wouldn't be able to require players to get one for all their games and there would also probably be hardware limitations on the console end of what functionality would even be possible in a peripheral.

(b) Antoher aspect is that Nintendo obviously doesn't have to pay royalties to other companies while putting software on its own console, which they would have to do if they "pulled a Sega".  So I think that Nintendo may derive tangible advantage, and definitely derives intangible advantage, by maintaining itself as a console maker. 

The counterargument would be that being a console maker means they are effectively prevented from releasing major multiplatform games, because doing so would undermine their own console's software advantage (losing exclusives), and that this restriction loses them SO much market opportunity that it overwhelms any advantage they obtain by the ability to define their own hardware, get royalites, etc.  But I would argue that as the generation goes on, the amount of flagship Nintendo games becomes so great on the Nintendo console that a lot of the audience for their games might pick up the Nintendo console anyway.  But I may here be greatly overestimating the amount of multiplatform ownership.  Even if that reason isn't borne up by the evidence, I still think the benefits for Nintendo outweigh the drawbacks. 

3.  As I described in point 2, I think Nintendo draws great strategic benefit from being able to dictate the hardware on which they make games in order to be able to follow its vision on what kind of games it wants to be able to make (which depends to an extent on the hardware it is able to use to play those games on), which is an advantage it can obviously only maintain by continuing to make their own consoles. 

Nintendo's NES had the D-pad, which was univerally accepted; Nintendo's SNES included shoulder pads which were univerally accepted; Nintendo's N64 pioneered analog sticks and "rumble", both of which Sony quickly copied, etc.  You can argue that the advantage gained was fleeting because the competition was able to copy these developments, but the fact remains that if Nintendo hadn't done it first it might just not have been done, which would limit the games Nintendo could make.  At the risk of repeating myself, by remaining in a position to dictate hardware Nintendo will retain the ability to innovate in its games by innovating in player interaction.

1.  Well, Pachter is the stock analyst that has 4 degrees (went to business school), and analyzes stocks and businesses for a living. So given that you have no data to say otherwise, I'm going to give Pachter the benefit of the doubt.

As for the other competitors selling at a loss, that's because their business model is more weighted towards royalty payments from 3'rd party developers, in contrast to Nintendo, who has been alienating 3'rd party developers.

Very, very good point with the peripherals. Although, I don't really see as much potential for peripherals with the WiiU, in contrast to the Wii.

2.  (a) I think you're putting too much weight on the hardware abilities. If you're arguing from a creative freedom perspective, that's a bit more compelling, but I don't see that really translating much in terms of business/sales. I'm not really sure if Mario or Zelda games are known for, or that people buy games from these two series due to "innovative" controls. And again, let's just assume sales will go down and/or the quality of the games will go down due to less freedom over hardware.

Will those be so large as to offset the expansion in customer base by selling on another platform?

(b) Again, you need to look at it from a cost benefit perspective. Do you honestly believe that the royalties are so large that it'll offset the expansion in customer base?

The point is that there's no point in propping up the console with exclusives though. The console itself isn't making a large profit, and Nintendo's third party support doesn't seem strong. In addition to that, even if they did get developer support, will they get consumer support (again, Activision (?) executive saying that Nintendo fans are all talk).

3. And again, you need to analyze things seperately.  Your claim is that: Dictating hardware->Better quality of software.

Before I go on, let me point out that this is a pretty big claim in and of itself. I'm not sure a majority of people will argue that the Wii controls were the main drivers of the quality of Mario or Zelda games (some people may say they hurt some of those games).

Now, what are the implications of your claim on the hardware and software business of Nintendo?

1) Hardware - Irrelevant. The point is that even if Nintendo's first party games are high quality, there's no point in having those games attract buyers, because of the lower profit of the consoles, and low revenue from royalties. Your best possible argument is alternative sources of revenue such as peripherals, or maybe whatever revenue Nintendo can get by having the WiiU become a living room "media center".

2) Software - Irrelvant. Unless you show that the decrease in the quality of games will result in such a decrease of sales for Nintendo that it'll result in a net decrease in sales, after Nintendo gains access to the other 2 consoles. You'll also have to show that the royalties are so onerous, that it'll lower the total profit below what Nintendo would have gotten by selling on one console, as opposed to 2 or 3.

4.  Again, I like Pachter's argument due to it's simple logic. You have a much more uphill battle to climb, and need to do some number  crunching to prove your point IMO.

I hate that reply format with a passion.  DO NOT EVER do it with me please. 

1.  (a)  I don't care about Pachter's degrees, no appeal to authority fallacies from you please, especially when his ACTUAL area of expertise is stock analysis.  And even there his degree of expertise is pretty debatable from what I've heard.  But let me ask it this way:  Pachter is saying that Nintendo was selling a $150-costing console for $250.  That might have been understandable while there were shortages.  They'd just be throwing away money by charging less when they can't sell more units.  But what about later on?  Surely they'd have been able to drop the price more than they exhibited to keep Wii sales high?  Even now the Wii is selling for $130 -- a mere $20 less than its production cost was SEVEN YEARS AGO according to Pachter.  Surely, what with the universal falling cost of manufacture that consoles experience, Nintendo could afford to cut the price farther to prop up flagging sales if Pachter's estimate was true, don't you think?  Or is the Wii unique among consoles in having a rock hard cost of manufacturing that has barely decreased through an entire console generation? 

Perhaps more importantly -- if they really were making $100 per Wii from launch, where the hell do you and Pachter get off saying that Nintendo hardware is unprofitable?  I mean that's an INSANE amount of profit they must have been making!  Shit, they must be refusing to lower the price just because of the scads of money they're raking in just on the boxes themselves! 

(b)  What are you basing that opinion about peripherals on?  Regardless, they will still sell many tens of millions of controllers. 

2.  (a)  It's hard to say how much Nintendo franchises benefit from the hardware control I spoke of.  But I would argue that in the long run, it is more beneficial to keep the franchise strong than to pursue the short term gains of going multiplatform, only to see your franchise suffer and see declining sales because of declining quality, rather than continuing strongly into the future.  In this scenario, in exchange for a smaller market they gain reliable customer support.  Look at Sonic. 

(b)  If I were to speculate, I would say that the difference between having to support a console, but not having to pay royalties and also receiving royalties from third parties (which believe it or not do exist on Nintendo consoles), may or may not be equal to not having to support a console, but having to pay royalties, but having access to a greater market; but that when you take into account not only the hardware factor I refer to elsewhere (and possible franchise degradation if hardware control is lost) but also brand unity/recognition, it is at least equal. 

  Au contraire, the point of "propping up" a console is discussed in great detail.  You can argue whether it is fully justified given the alternatives, but to claim there's "no point" is just false. 

3.  Aside from the effect it had on existing franchises (and I'd remind you of Super Mario 64 and the analog stick, which acknowledging that there are people like RolStoppable who would argue that that was also detrimental to the franchise), it gives Nintendo opportunities to do NEW things like Wii Sports, WSR, and the Trauma Center series which (as a non-player, I understand) relies on touchscreen or Wii Remote drawing for its gameplay.  Making new franchises as well as continuing old ones is, I'm sure you will agree, essential to the health of a software company. 

1)  You haven't even proven that the Nintendo hardware and hardware-based business is unprofitable.  Aside from that, I will concede that if you are only analyzing the hardware for the hardware's sake, then it isn't relevant to that analysis how much the hardware helps the software. 

2)  On the other hand, I think it's quite a remarkable claim to say that "Dictating hardware-->better software" has no relevance to Nintendo's software business.  I mean frankly that's a completely ridiculous statement.  What I suppose you mean is that the quality argument is trumped by the quantity argument of being able to release across two platforms (not three, unless you forsee a new entrant into the market).  But IMO that is a shortsighted outlook because over time series of inferior quality dwindle and fade away, if not disappear entirely. 

4.  In conclusion, simple logic isn't necessarily correct logic.  And I have better things to do than to do 100% of the factfinding while you don't have the same burden, especially when you (and Pachter) are the ones making the claim in the first place that Nintendo would be smarter to abandon their hardware business.  The burden of proof is on you IMO. 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

mutantclown said:

Since not many people noticed the Wii U is a totally new Nintendo console, if I were Nintendo I would prepare a total re-launch this fall to fight the arrival of the next-gen consoles. I would re-brand the console "Nintendo Ultra" redesign it with an internal HDD, optical audio output, 5.1 dolby/DTS support and ethernet, USB 3.0. I would make a serious effort and investment to make the Nintendo Network faster and better in every way. I would also make sure to have a new 3D Mario for the re-launch. The prices would stay the same, $300 and $350, HDD capacity matching the ones offered by the competition. I would phase out Wii U, and re-brand and re-release the existing Wii U library as Nintendo Ultra games. It seems desperate, but I think it's better than cutting the prices. Let's face it, the Wii U has a serious branding and positioning problem, cutting the price won't help it and some new games won't be enough in the long run.

I think you are on the right track, but the name needs a little something extra. 

Maybe Ultra 64. 

(Are you proud of me, Rol?) 



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The old smileys: ; - ) : - ) : - ( : - P : - D : - # ( c ) ( k ) ( y ) If anyone knows the shortcut for , let me know!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

RazorDragon said:
Captain_Tom said:
Player1x3 said:
...also, if I might add, I've never seen such an enormous amount of irrational defense for Wii U anywhere on the internet. Some people here just have big problems with facts and accepting reality of a situation their beloved console is in


I cannot believe it either.  The fact is the Wii U is doing terribly and now that pricecuts are not even helping it is looking like the Wii U truly is in dire straights.  Saying it isn't so, or changing the subject to completely different consoles with their own unique circumstances just makes you look desperate.  

 

Also I will say that I got a Vita on launch and recently thought it was in big trouble too.  In fact I was worried it was just gonna die off in a year.  But then SONY dropped the price in 1 country and sales exploded.  The Wii U's has not...


Vita's situation is exactly the same as Wii U's. Remember the Assassin's Creed/Call of Duty/4GB Memory Card Vita bundle and it's $200 price tag? It didn't increased Vita's sales anywhere in the world. Also, after japanese price cut, Vita sold "well" for 2 weeks(thanks to SS's release), before again having a major drop in sales.


Unfortunately the Vita sales did pick up from that sh!tty COD.  The AC game helped a bit too.  Also there is no news tha the Vita's sales have dropped off a cliff...



Captain_Tom said:
RazorDragon said:
Captain_Tom said:
Player1x3 said:
...also, if I might add, I've never seen such an enormous amount of irrational defense for Wii U anywhere on the internet. Some people here just have big problems with facts and accepting reality of a situation their beloved console is in


I cannot believe it either.  The fact is the Wii U is doing terribly and now that pricecuts are not even helping it is looking like the Wii U truly is in dire straights.  Saying it isn't so, or changing the subject to completely different consoles with their own unique circumstances just makes you look desperate.  

 

Also I will say that I got a Vita on launch and recently thought it was in big trouble too.  In fact I was worried it was just gonna die off in a year.  But then SONY dropped the price in 1 country and sales exploded.  The Wii U's has not...


Vita's situation is exactly the same as Wii U's. Remember the Assassin's Creed/Call of Duty/4GB Memory Card Vita bundle and it's $200 price tag? It didn't increased Vita's sales anywhere in the world. Also, after japanese price cut, Vita sold "well" for 2 weeks(thanks to SS's release), before again having a major drop in sales.


Unfortunately the Vita sales did pick up from that sh!tty COD.  The AC game helped a bit too.  Also there is no news tha the Vita's sales have dropped off a cliff...


If I remember well it wasn't even a 15k increase after the bundles released, I wouldn't consider it a bump in sales at all. Last week, Vita's sales dropped almost 50%. Coming from a week where it outsold the 3DS, that's a lot, at least in my opinion.



Captain_Tom said:
Player1x3 said:
...also, if I might add, I've never seen such an enormous amount of irrational defense for Wii U anywhere on the internet. Some people here just have big problems with facts and accepting reality of a situation their beloved console is in


I cannot believe it either.  The fact is the Wii U is doing terribly and now that pricecuts are not even helping it is looking like the Wii U truly is in dire straights.  Saying it isn't so, or changing the subject to completely different consoles with their own unique circumstances just makes you look desperate.  

 

Also I will say that I got a Vita on launch and recently thought it was in big trouble too.  In fact I was worried it was just gonna die off in a year.  But then SONY dropped the price in 1 country and sales exploded.  The Wii U's has not...

You're the one who wanted sensible discussion.

Nintendo has NOT DROPPED PRICE. Individual retailers have dropped price. Guess what; they did with with Vita in Japan too, before an official price drop.

The only people who look desperate here are the ones rushing to make the Wii U's defeat a closed subject or something.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.