You missed my point. You said your brother is on the government dole. He is not. Welfare is being on the government dole. Working for the government is no different than working for a private company. Working means you earn your money. Being on the government dole means you get welfare for NOT contributing to society. Sure there are legit reasons for people to be temporarily on welfare, but that's not the issue. You say your brother complains about those on the dole while being on the dole. That's just not the case.

If anything they should keep the social programs and cut the military. I would be in support of a government take over of health care completely.  The government should assume control of all drug companies.  There shouldn't be profit in human health services.  I wonder why USA healthcare system sucks so bad and is so overpriced?  Seems like the "free" market doesn't do shit when it comes to health care costs.  USA has one of the highest health care costs out of any nation with a shitload of people that can't afford basic dental and health care.  I view the health industry in the same light as the cable companies in USA.  Monopoly/Oligopoly system that screws over the consumer.

Some might be like oh why you calling for complete government take over of health care?  It will just turn out to be shitty, blah blah blah....  Guess what?  I haven't been to a doctor in over a decade (besides my appendectomy which I paid for the surgeon, MRI, pathologist but not hospital stay which was 20k for one night)...  Health insurance is way too overpriced in USA.

Explain to me how after paying for surgeon, MRI, pathologist the bill still comes out to 20k for a one night stay in a hospital after an appendectomy.

@richardhutnik: Your right I was totally unclear. Let me be more specific if I can.

To your first question. How to bell the cat? Any person(s) that wants to stop paying taxes must vote for candidates with records of ending taxation in some form agreeable to them. All the while still obeying the tax code. I know this will not guarantee a bell on the cat but it is all I can do. Spread an Idea. If ppl don't take to it then they certainly deserve the government they have.


To your concern over absolute freedom I say; “Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add ‘within the limits of the law’ because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.”

So what I advocate is that police and sheriffs volunteer. With paid expenses paid for with the smallest tax possible. That goes for all govt employees. Im willing to serve in the state senate without pay ( and I have a BS degree). I believe a government of volunteers would attract public servants with an interest in public good. Not bureaucrats. But again. I fail to find a solution to accomplish this outside of simply voting for candidates that refuse pay/pensions/benefits. There are others like me and we are growing. The Idea is out there and it's spreading :D

i would prefer it if we went back to the usa model of the 1950s and before. When health insurance barely existed. Hospitals competed with each other. The other day I paid $3000 for a peice of tape on my toe and it took 3 hours (still cheaper than buying insurance). Before insurance took over the market, the cost for the tape would have been maybe $50-$200 which goes to the doc for his expertise.

Good luck translating work for a government  defense contractor into any other sector out there.  He is going to have a very hard time of it, if his specialization is into designing weapons systems and that work isn't available, due to budget cuts.  His livelihood is dependent upon tax dollars.

In regards to the use of the word "dole" in the original post, I was using the term as receiving of tax dollars in some form.  The current definition is usually seen as different than that.  Pardon my using a non-standard definition.  If you were to go Libertarian, excess spending on weapons systems that is not needed, and pork brought back to districts would be seen as a form of dole.  

So, I want to focus on the main issue here.  Is everyone in favor of the government employing people to do marginally important tasks, if doing such means an increase in number of government employees, so that such payments aren't see as unearned handouts?  Is the issue that people don't actually work that is the problem, or is it one of redistribution of income by means of government bureaucrats to where they feel is necessary?  And if the government is creating makeshift work for people, to get their money, does that then mean that the people receiving the money aren't dependent on it?  Does dependency suddenly go away when people actually do something in exchange for the payout?

I really don't understand how anyone can view working for the government the same as receiving Welfare. Working for the government is no different than working for a private company. You clock in, do a job, get a check. Same as any job. If you think the government should employ less people, join the club. But the truth is that people working for the government are taxpaying contributors to society. Welfare slugs don't do anything but hold their hand out.

I'm a small government type of person. I work for county government, but I think the federal government is too big and takes too much control from local government. There is a HUGE difference between the monster that is federal government and accountable/transparent local government. There's waste in all government, but the feds make city and county government look flat out frugal. I don't want the government making up jobs just to get people work. I want the government to shrink. It's better that the government outsource to your brother's company. I'd rather the government build up defense to maintain security than take over health care.

Should the government pay for your brother's company's defense contract? I don't know. That's not really something I can assess. Maybe it's important and your brother's company can do it better, faster and cheaper than the government can. I do believe that defense and security are two of the primary purposes of the US Government.

If your brother lost his job I'm sure he could find another. It might not have anything to do with weapon systems, but there are a lot of jobs out there and technical skills are useful in most of them. But that doesn't really matter in this discussion. What matters is that the government, for whatever reason, decided to outsource and your brother's company is doing the work. It's cheaper for the government and it is better for the economy.

From an economic viewpoint, and that of people, welfare and government employers have a similar impact.  Both involve a centralized entity acting as a force to change the outcome of markets.  In both cases, there is a taking of money out of the economy and reallocated in way that wasn't governed by individual wallets.  One can debate whether or not this is good or needed, but in both cases, it is there.  The only apparent debate is whether or not the recipients of the tax dollars (or borrowed money) are "worthy" of getting the money.  The big bruhaha in this thread is that individuals getting welfare are seen as "unworthy" because they didn't earn it and the government employees, and contractors supposedly did.  In both cases though, the individuals who originally had the money had no say in both individuals getting the money.  The only differents is a degree of resentment at welfare recipients not earning it.  To this, go ahead and propose makeshift work for the recipients of welfare to do, to get the money and go ahead and see how many people actually would support that who are complaining about the welfare recipients not getting it.  The issue really isn't whether or not they deserve it, but rather that reality that tax dollars took people's money and reallocated it to places people object.  And this reallocation is what my brother objects about.   He is upset his social security tax cut stimulus is over, and also upset that government money isn't going his way, but to other programs, like the department of energy.