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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony sell Tokyo office building for 1.2 Billion dollars.

deskpro2k3 said:


How is this different to what I said?

I just tried to explain why Sony CAN'T sell the assets they don't need..



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outlawauron said:
Chandler said:
Looks like Sony is betting everything on the PS4. Good luck.

Why does this news mean they're putting everything they have into the PS4 basket?


Because sell and lease back is most of the time just a short term relief. Right now, their business model is not profitable. But nonetheless they sold their buildings for liquidity and added another source of running costs on their balance sheet in form of rent. I don't think rent in Manhattan and Tokyo is cheap.

 

I think because Sony's credit rating is pretty bad they had to do this to get some liquidity because they probably only get shitty deals from banks right now. 



Ongoing bet with think-man: He wins if MH4 releases in any shape or form on PSV in 2013, I win if it doesn't.

deskpro2k3 said:
drkohler said:
deskpro2k3 said:
Selling off assets they don't need is good in the long run. Anything they don't need just leeches money away that can be put to better use.

Surely Kaz have a plan to dominate the world.

This has nothing to do with "Selling off assets they don't need". Obviously those employees need some place to work. Here is the whole problem explained for those who don't get it. Sony, like many other japanese TV makers, has too many plants and overproduces TVs that are too expensive.


How is this different to what I said?

Hardly call selling an office housing 5000 employees that they are still going to be using as being and asset they don't need.  They are still using it for min 5 years.  How is that something they don't need?  

Sony is not going to save any money worth mentioning by renting versus owning.  They will still be paying roughly same yearly as they did before on this building, the only difference is they now have 1.2 billion dollars in cash versus 1.2 billion dollar building.  

Thus they can use that 1.2 billion to pay the rent/utilities, pay for ps4, television, phone R&D, manufacturing, ect, or paying off debts and liabilities, ect.  

To those thinking Sony will be saving millions upon millions of dollars renting are delluding themselves.  If renting was soo much cheaper, no business would own their building.    There is not a single business you could ask that if given the choice would prefer to rent their building versus owning it.



I passed a Sony store today....And saw in the window Samsung Tv's o_o... Sony is doomed!!



 

Sal.Paradise said:
Kynes said:
Sal.Paradise said:
Kynes said:
...

We have some people here who defend anything that Sony does, whatever is the result. The same people who defended Sony decisions on PS3 (Cell and Blu Ray) and now are defending Sony decisions on PS4 (Off the shelf components and PC-lite architecture), and are the same people who don't want anyone to remember them that Sony misbehaves have consequences. They are the same people who want more powerful hardware at cheaper prices, the ones out of touch, and anyone who remembers them this is a hater and harsh. Living in a bubble won't change the reality.

Is there anyone here still that defends the cell, aside from possibly turkish? 

Now it's not the time to defend the cell, when even Sony has publicly accepted during the PS4 event that it was an horrible decision.

Hmm, ok I'll rephrase.

Was there anyone here, just before "Sony....publicly accepted during the PS4 event that it was an horrible decision." that defended the cell, aside from possibly turkish?


Of course there were. Ask on this forum the technical reason why some people consider PS3 more powerful than XBox360, and most people will say Cell. People won't talk about it, because its past it's time, but most still believe it and said it whenever we had a technical thread.



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Wish sony the best, desperate times call for desperate measures, but there is only so many assets that sony can sell, after so much time you are no longer burning fat but muscle. Sony has quite of bit of money, a little bit under 9 billion, with 2 billion restricted by their financial division. So sony can still deal with losses for the near future, but there is still a lot of work that needs to be done, ALOT, we are taking about a company, who disclosed in their financial notes, that doesnt expect a profit in their tv division until 2014,they said  2014! 



"We're in the business of making money" said by every company ever known

Chandler said:
outlawauron said:
Chandler said:
Looks like Sony is betting everything on the PS4. Good luck.

Why does this news mean they're putting everything they have into the PS4 basket?


Because sell and lease back is most of the time just a short term relief. Right now, their business model is not profitable. But nonetheless they sold their buildings for liquidity and added another source of running costs on their balance sheet in form of rent. I don't think rent in Manhattan and Tokyo is cheap.

 

I think because Sony's credit rating is pretty bad they had to do this to get some liquidity because they probably only get shitty deals from banks right now. 

That's not what he asked you though. He asked why you think they'll use that money purely on the PS4, or betting on the PS4. What about their other businesses?



Kynes said:
Sal.Paradise said:
Kynes said:
Sal.Paradise said:
Kynes said:
...

We have some people here who defend anything that Sony does, whatever is the result. The same people who defended Sony decisions on PS3 (Cell and Blu Ray) and now are defending Sony decisions on PS4 (Off the shelf components and PC-lite architecture), and are the same people who don't want anyone to remember them that Sony misbehaves have consequences. They are the same people who want more powerful hardware at cheaper prices, the ones out of touch, and anyone who remembers them this is a hater and harsh. Living in a bubble won't change the reality.

Is there anyone here still that defends the cell, aside from possibly turkish? 

Now it's not the time to defend the cell, when even Sony has publicly accepted during the PS4 event that it was an horrible decision.

Hmm, ok I'll rephrase.

Was there anyone here, just before "Sony....publicly accepted during the PS4 event that it was an horrible decision." that defended the cell, aside from possibly turkish?


Of course there were. Ask on this forum the technical reason why some people consider PS3 more powerful than XBox360, and most people will say Cell. People won't talk about it, because its past it's time, but most still believe it and said it whenever we had a technical thread.

But saying  'the cell is the reason why PS3 is more powerful than 360' and 'defending the inclusion of the cell in PS3' are very different things. And I think you know that because you didn't answer my question directly. 

I'll get to my point, which is that I think you're bringing up demons from the past to try to paint current Sony enthusiasts on the site in a bad manner, which is quite disingenuous. If you mention that some people are being hypocritical in their behaviour or just acting a certain way, I feel you should at least back it up with some evidence, or it just results in you incorrectly labelling a whole group of people  currently using the site as something they are not. Which isn't a nice thing to do. 



happydolphin said:
Chandler said:
outlawauron said:
Chandler said:
Looks like Sony is betting everything on the PS4. Good luck.

Why does this news mean they're putting everything they have into the PS4 basket?


Because sell and lease back is most of the time just a short term relief. Right now, their business model is not profitable. But nonetheless they sold their buildings for liquidity and added another source of running costs on their balance sheet in form of rent. I don't think rent in Manhattan and Tokyo is cheap.

 

I think because Sony's credit rating is pretty bad they had to do this to get some liquidity because they probably only get shitty deals from banks right now. 

That's not what he asked you though. He asked why you think they'll use that money purely on the PS4, or betting on the PS4. What about their other businesses?


I'm just not aware of anything big in the pipeline at Sony despite the PS4. Of course they can spend that money elsewhere but PS4 is where the buzz is right now so I don't think it's far fetched to think that this is their horse.



Ongoing bet with think-man: He wins if MH4 releases in any shape or form on PSV in 2013, I win if it doesn't.

drkohler said:
deskpro2k3 said:
Selling off assets they don't need is good in the long run. Anything they don't need just leeches money away that can be put to better use.

Surely Kaz have a plan to dominate the world.

This has nothing to do with "Selling off assets they don't need". Obviously those employees need some place to work. Here is the whole problem explained for those who don't get it. Sony, like many other japanese TV makers, has too many plants and overproduces TVs that are too expensive. They also have a building full of employees that are part of the TV selling business group. Now in America, the solution is always the same : Fire the employees and shut down the plants as needed, within 15 minute's notices. In Japan, it is completely impossible to fire people (technically you can, but you have to pay their salaries until retirement. This has lead to an institution called "window jobs"). Combine that with a foreigner as ceo (Stringer, whose underlings seem to have apparently worked against him as rumours are fircling around),  Sony has, in the past years, fired every person and plant they could _outside_ of Japan (the console group in my country is history in a few weeks from now, so this is still going on). At this point, Sony is pretty much stripped bare outside of Japan. Enter Kaz Hirai, the Uebermensch as some think here he is, and guess what - not even Kaz has any solutions to the fundamental problem. There is no Kaz Superplan. I'm with Kowenicki this time (rare occasion I should add), Hirai is just buying time for himself by selling the table silver, and hoping that the problem slowly goes away over the next years while burning through the money for the two buildings (5000 employees means about 150-250 employees less per year through retirement and other causes). In the end, I see for the first time a Japanese company gutting Japanese plants and firing Japanese employees wholesale, because Sony does not have enough table silver to hunger through the losses (mainly from the TV business).


So what about all of the investments that Sony have been in recently?  Buying Gaikei, investing in some sort of tech that'll be used for the medical field.....aren't those supposed to be helping?  Or will the benefit of Sony's investments take more time to see the fruits of their labor?



Generation 8 Predictions so far.....(as of 9/2013)

Console that will sell most: Nintendo Wii U

Who will sell more consoles between Microsoft/SONY: SONY