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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo and 3rd parties *Formerly; Nintendo is f*cking up big times with 3rd parties*

richardhutnik said:
Gnac said:
richardhutnik said:
Conegamer said:
Turkish said:
Just look at the reactions of 3rd parties, they're all very happy with PS4s 8GB GDDR5 ram, ram was one of the biggest bottlenecks current gen. Nintendo just let them down.

Gamecube was a beast console, in return it got many multiplats.

As I recall at E3 2011 (or even 2012?), Nintendo said that they designed the console with 3rd parties in mind, and as such there was nothing but praise for the system. Who knows what happened to cause such a change.

Assuming that Microsoft's console also ends up with 8 GB of RAM, that is what happened to it.   With both of them having that much RAM, third-party codes to that and won't bother with Nintendo's offering.  This change makes a difference.

Imagine how much story you could make with all that RAM. I'm salivating.

War and Peace I am sure doesn't need that amount of space.  Will see what happens when implementing games though and so on.  Still, with this is very much an increase in dev costs.  Will see how it goes.  What it means is Nintendo is not able to partake in what games come out for the other two.



I beg to differ. We know that the DDR3 combined with the eDRAM and SRAM on die for Latte and the DDR3 and ESRAM on die for the 720's GPU have sacrificed bandwidth for latency. The biggest bottlenecking problem last gen was high latency, Nintendo and Microsoft have addressed that issue and Sony haven't. It's pretty pointless having loads of bandwidth for 'fast' memory if it takes time for the CPU and GPU to handle memory operations once it gets it. Nintendo and Microsoft haven't just done this for a laugh, it's actually a better solution, particularly when you consider the speeds of hard drives and optical drives. The Wii U and the 720 will be more balanced systems, and developers will prefer it.

We also know that over half of the silicon of the GPU is a complete mystery. Some hardware buffs, including my good self, believe that Nintendo have implemented some form of fixed functions into the GPU. Whilst this caused problems with the Wii due to having a nonstandard rendering pipeline you can be sure that Nintendo have been working with engine developers and designers to ensure that these fixed functions can be easily implemented into 3D engines without a problem. What does this mean..? 'Free' use of HDR, depth of field, AA and whatever else they've cooked up.

We also know that Latte uses efficient texture compression, I would hazard a guess that it's based on the same compression algorithm that WiiWare uses which allowed Shin'en to squeeze a Super Mario Galaxy style game into 40MB.

We really don't need to worry about multiplatform titles this gen because all 3 consoles this gen are in a similar position in terms of power as the 6th generation. They're all in the same ballpark. The Wii U is the PS2 equivalent, the 720 is the GameCube equivalent and the PS4 is the Xbox equivalent. The GameCube and Xbox were much more powerful than the PS2 but it could still handle ports, albeit with graphical downgrades. The same will happen this gen, particularly when you consider that the Wii U will have a considerable marketshare advantage. We'll just see Wii U being in 720p, or perhaps even sub-HD like most games last gen, and upscaled by the Wii U to 1080p and the Wii U SKU having less impressive AA, more texture pop-in and less impressive particle effects.



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fordy said:
Barbarossa said:
fordy said:
Barbarossa said:
fordy said:
Barbarossa said:

Battle.net maybe? With blizzard supporting it not impossible I guess and you also said they kind of mentioned it already. Oh, does this mean WoW on PS4?

fordy said:







DanneSandin said:







fordy said:







DanneSandin said:







 

He doesn't have to have that since he's a developer... What he's told me is that 3rd parties is sick and tired of the way Nintendo is acting; I don't know if he represents the whole industry...



Developers don't make the decisions, the executives do. If he doesn't have to have much business sense, then he also shouldn't be speaking for EXECUTIVE business decisions. How is this, therefore, a "trustworthy source"?


I'm calling BS on this. It lacks common sense and defies any kind of business logic.



I couldn't agree more, and that's why I said that Nintendo is fucking up big times.




Nintendo is fucking up because your agument is illogical? No, they've been doing so long before that.


 


Let me give you an example of this. I'm an executive, and I call for a game to be developed for the Wii. Now, as an executive, how do you think I'd react if my developers came back and said "We refuse to develop for the Wii because we're not entitled to the same memory allocation as Nintendo"? Keep in mind that the executive doesn't give two shits about technicalities, they're in charge of financial and overall business decisions.


A working example of this was Square moving from Nintendo exlcusitivity. It wasn't done on a TECHNICAL sense. It was done on a FINANCIAL sense. In fact, look up some youtube videos on the history of Squaresoft, and the workers at the time explained how executives came in one day and just told the team "We're going with PlayStation now". It wasn't the devs making this decision, they just did what they were told. A lot of devs were excited, and a lot of devs were disappointed by the decision, but they still had to follow executive orders.


I think Square abandoned Nintendo because of the lack of a cd-rom. They just thought it was the future, turns out they were right. A mistake Nintendo still haven't recovered from.

 


If cartridges costed the same per MB as CDs, do you think that Square would have moved? 

Once again, the technical details didn't bother them. After all, originally they weren't phased by it since they made a demo of FF7 for the N64. It was when they made a massive game that was going to be incredibly expensive to fit on cartridge that they decided to take the cheaper option of CDs. This has been mentioned many times by Square staff in interviews. Once again, purely financial decision. They didn't do it just because "CDs are the future".

Yes, I think they would have moved anyway because the game they wanted to make would not have fit on a cartridge.

FF7= 3 CD-roms, total game size roughly 1.8 GB according to Sony. N64 cartridge=64MB

http://xenon.stanford.edu/~geksiong/papers/sts145/Squaresoft%20and%20FF7.htm

This article features some interesting tidbits of what happened. Presumably Enix's Dragon Quest left Nintendo for the same reason.

Of course, there was a financial aspect as well, plus Nintendos relationship with Square seemed somewhat infectious at the time. In this case, though, I believe the technical limitations was the main reason for the split because it inhibited their artistic vision for the game.


Once again, if the PRICE PER MB of cartridge ROM matched CDs, what would be the point of moving?

The number you quoted is ADRESSABLE cartridge space. Look up memory mappers to see how the NES bypassed it's 32KB space limit.

As Yamauchi said, they could fit ANY size game on a cart, and he was right...to an extent. The only thing holding them back WAS cost.

Actually, I'm going to admit you're theoretically right since it could've been possible to change carts. 1.8 GB on 64 MB carts means about 30 cartridges. So, yes, in that sense you are correct. However, if the N64 would have had a CD-ROM they probably would have released it on that platform, which again, makes it a technical question. N64 with CD-ROM=FF7 (possibly), N64 without CD-ROM=no FF7 (fact).

Here are some quotes to ponder in the meantime.

Yoshinori Kitase (director of FF7):

"But as our goal was to develop the next-generation RPG we came to the conclusion that only a high capacity mass storage media would facilitate what we wanted to achieve. This meant CD was the only option and so from that perspective, PlayStation was the only choice."

http://www.edge-online.com/features/making-final-fantasy-vii/

Hironobu Sakaguchi:

"As a result of using a lot of motion data + CG effects and in still images, it turned out to be a mega capacity game, and therefore we had to choose CD-ROM as our media"

http://www.lostlevels.org/200510/


For gods sake, look up  memory mapping. The game didn't need x number of cartridges, it could have worked on one cartridge if paging was incorporated. Once again, Square mentioned that they made a game too big that couldn't fit (it could, except they'd be looking in the realm of $400 manufacturing or so in manufacturing costs to put it onto ROM. Once again, if the price per MB for ROM was the same as CD, it WOULD have been on the N64, on a SINGLE cartridge, since the only thing that CDs offer over ROM is cheap $/MB, nothing more...

I did and I think you misunderstand the concept somewhat. Memory mapping refers to a technique called bank switching. This gives a console the ability to retrieve data from multiple ROM-banks. It does not magically give a ROM the capacity to store more information, you would still need to cram a 1.8GB ROM inside the cart. Now, I'm not saying this could not be done, but as it was more than 15 years ago, I'll go out on a limb and claim it was practically impossible to do on a normal sized cartridge.



Barbarossa said:
fordy said:
Barbarossa said:
fordy said:
Barbarossa said:
fordy said:
Barbarossa said:

Battle.net maybe? With blizzard supporting it not impossible I guess and you also said they kind of mentioned it already. Oh, does this mean WoW on PS4?

fordy said:







DanneSandin said:







fordy said:







DanneSandin said:







 

He doesn't have to have that since he's a developer... What he's told me is that 3rd parties is sick and tired of the way Nintendo is acting; I don't know if he represents the whole industry...



Developers don't make the decisions, the executives do. If he doesn't have to have much business sense, then he also shouldn't be speaking for EXECUTIVE business decisions. How is this, therefore, a "trustworthy source"?


I'm calling BS on this. It lacks common sense and defies any kind of business logic.



I couldn't agree more, and that's why I said that Nintendo is fucking up big times.




Nintendo is fucking up because your agument is illogical? No, they've been doing so long before that.


 


Let me give you an example of this. I'm an executive, and I call for a game to be developed for the Wii. Now, as an executive, how do you think I'd react if my developers came back and said "We refuse to develop for the Wii because we're not entitled to the same memory allocation as Nintendo"? Keep in mind that the executive doesn't give two shits about technicalities, they're in charge of financial and overall business decisions.


A working example of this was Square moving from Nintendo exlcusitivity. It wasn't done on a TECHNICAL sense. It was done on a FINANCIAL sense. In fact, look up some youtube videos on the history of Squaresoft, and the workers at the time explained how executives came in one day and just told the team "We're going with PlayStation now". It wasn't the devs making this decision, they just did what they were told. A lot of devs were excited, and a lot of devs were disappointed by the decision, but they still had to follow executive orders.


I think Square abandoned Nintendo because of the lack of a cd-rom. They just thought it was the future, turns out they were right. A mistake Nintendo still haven't recovered from.

 


If cartridges costed the same per MB as CDs, do you think that Square would have moved? 

Once again, the technical details didn't bother them. After all, originally they weren't phased by it since they made a demo of FF7 for the N64. It was when they made a massive game that was going to be incredibly expensive to fit on cartridge that they decided to take the cheaper option of CDs. This has been mentioned many times by Square staff in interviews. Once again, purely financial decision. They didn't do it just because "CDs are the future".

Yes, I think they would have moved anyway because the game they wanted to make would not have fit on a cartridge.

FF7= 3 CD-roms, total game size roughly 1.8 GB according to Sony. N64 cartridge=64MB

http://xenon.stanford.edu/~geksiong/papers/sts145/Squaresoft%20and%20FF7.htm

This article features some interesting tidbits of what happened. Presumably Enix's Dragon Quest left Nintendo for the same reason.

Of course, there was a financial aspect as well, plus Nintendos relationship with Square seemed somewhat infectious at the time. In this case, though, I believe the technical limitations was the main reason for the split because it inhibited their artistic vision for the game.


Once again, if the PRICE PER MB of cartridge ROM matched CDs, what would be the point of moving?

The number you quoted is ADRESSABLE cartridge space. Look up memory mappers to see how the NES bypassed it's 32KB space limit.

As Yamauchi said, they could fit ANY size game on a cart, and he was right...to an extent. The only thing holding them back WAS cost.

Actually, I'm going to admit you're theoretically right since it could've been possible to change carts. 1.8 GB on 64 MB carts means about 30 cartridges. So, yes, in that sense you are correct. However, if the N64 would have had a CD-ROM they probably would have released it on that platform, which again, makes it a technical question. N64 with CD-ROM=FF7 (possibly), N64 without CD-ROM=no FF7 (fact).

Here are some quotes to ponder in the meantime.

Yoshinori Kitase (director of FF7):

"But as our goal was to develop the next-generation RPG we came to the conclusion that only a high capacity mass storage media would facilitate what we wanted to achieve. This meant CD was the only option and so from that perspective, PlayStation was the only choice."

http://www.edge-online.com/features/making-final-fantasy-vii/

Hironobu Sakaguchi:

"As a result of using a lot of motion data + CG effects and in still images, it turned out to be a mega capacity game, and therefore we had to choose CD-ROM as our media"

http://www.lostlevels.org/200510/


For gods sake, look up  memory mapping. The game didn't need x number of cartridges, it could have worked on one cartridge if paging was incorporated. Once again, Square mentioned that they made a game too big that couldn't fit (it could, except they'd be looking in the realm of $400 manufacturing or so in manufacturing costs to put it onto ROM. Once again, if the price per MB for ROM was the same as CD, it WOULD have been on the N64, on a SINGLE cartridge, since the only thing that CDs offer over ROM is cheap $/MB, nothing more...

I did and I think you misunderstand the concept somewhat. Memory mapping refers to a technique called bank switching. This gives a console the ability to retrieve data from multiple ROM-banks. It does not magically give a ROM the capacity to store more information, you would still need to cram a 1.8GB ROM inside the cart. Now, I'm not saying this could not be done, but as it was more than 15 years ago, I'll go out on a limb and claim it was practically impossible to do on a normal sized cartridge.

Firstly, if you've played the game, you'll understand that as a whole, the game is NOT 1.8GB. There is a ton of doubling up of resources between the discs in order for the game to run seamlessly (ie. not asking to insert a previous disk if you decide to visit a town no longer relevant to the game's storyline). A few have speculated that without such need, the game would be closer to 1GB. 

If you've looked in cartridges from previous generations, you'd probably see that you do not have to place the entire game on one ROM IC. The page mapper can easily reference more than one ROM should it need to. They could have easily had 4x256MB ROM ICs (keep in mind that there ARE IC forms smaller than the traditional "spider" look, and Nintendo used them frequently in SNES cartridges. There was plenty of PCB space, even on the N64 cart, but once again, it all comes down to cost.



Barbarossa said:

I did and I think you misunderstand the concept somewhat. Memory mapping refers to a technique called bank switching. This gives a console the ability to retrieve data from multiple ROM-banks. It does not magically give a ROM the capacity to store more information, you would still need to cram a 1.8GB ROM inside the cart. Now, I'm not saying this could not be done, but as it was more than 15 years ago, I'll go out on a limb and claim it was practically impossible to do on a normal sized cartridge.


From what I understand it was possible to get them it just cost a fortune hence why most third parties didn't bother with the N64, those who did had to compress and make alterations to get games onto the default carts available. Like he said it would cost developers hundreds just for the cart, this would result in games retailing for prices you could buy several consoles for or selling at a loss even the PS3 pales in comparison to.

15 years ago doesn't exclude the tech from existing it just means it was far less viable like how HD has been around since the 90s.



fordy said:
Barbarossa said:
fordy said:
Barbarossa said:
fordy said:
Barbarossa said:
fordy said:
Barbarossa said:

Battle.net maybe? With blizzard supporting it not impossible I guess and you also said they kind of mentioned it already. Oh, does this mean WoW on PS4?

fordy said:







DanneSandin said:







fordy said:







DanneSandin said:







 

He doesn't have to have that since he's a developer... What he's told me is that 3rd parties is sick and tired of the way Nintendo is acting; I don't know if he represents the whole industry...



Developers don't make the decisions, the executives do. If he doesn't have to have much business sense, then he also shouldn't be speaking for EXECUTIVE business decisions. How is this, therefore, a "trustworthy source"?


I'm calling BS on this. It lacks common sense and defies any kind of business logic.



I couldn't agree more, and that's why I said that Nintendo is fucking up big times.




Nintendo is fucking up because your agument is illogical? No, they've been doing so long before that.


 


Let me give you an example of this. I'm an executive, and I call for a game to be developed for the Wii. Now, as an executive, how do you think I'd react if my developers came back and said "We refuse to develop for the Wii because we're not entitled to the same memory allocation as Nintendo"? Keep in mind that the executive doesn't give two shits about technicalities, they're in charge of financial and overall business decisions.


A working example of this was Square moving from Nintendo exlcusitivity. It wasn't done on a TECHNICAL sense. It was done on a FINANCIAL sense. In fact, look up some youtube videos on the history of Squaresoft, and the workers at the time explained how executives came in one day and just told the team "We're going with PlayStation now". It wasn't the devs making this decision, they just did what they were told. A lot of devs were excited, and a lot of devs were disappointed by the decision, but they still had to follow executive orders.


I think Square abandoned Nintendo because of the lack of a cd-rom. They just thought it was the future, turns out they were right. A mistake Nintendo still haven't recovered from.

 


If cartridges costed the same per MB as CDs, do you think that Square would have moved? 

Once again, the technical details didn't bother them. After all, originally they weren't phased by it since they made a demo of FF7 for the N64. It was when they made a massive game that was going to be incredibly expensive to fit on cartridge that they decided to take the cheaper option of CDs. This has been mentioned many times by Square staff in interviews. Once again, purely financial decision. They didn't do it just because "CDs are the future".

Yes, I think they would have moved anyway because the game they wanted to make would not have fit on a cartridge.

FF7= 3 CD-roms, total game size roughly 1.8 GB according to Sony. N64 cartridge=64MB

http://xenon.stanford.edu/~geksiong/papers/sts145/Squaresoft%20and%20FF7.htm

This article features some interesting tidbits of what happened. Presumably Enix's Dragon Quest left Nintendo for the same reason.

Of course, there was a financial aspect as well, plus Nintendos relationship with Square seemed somewhat infectious at the time. In this case, though, I believe the technical limitations was the main reason for the split because it inhibited their artistic vision for the game.


Once again, if the PRICE PER MB of cartridge ROM matched CDs, what would be the point of moving?

The number you quoted is ADRESSABLE cartridge space. Look up memory mappers to see how the NES bypassed it's 32KB space limit.

As Yamauchi said, they could fit ANY size game on a cart, and he was right...to an extent. The only thing holding them back WAS cost.

Actually, I'm going to admit you're theoretically right since it could've been possible to change carts. 1.8 GB on 64 MB carts means about 30 cartridges. So, yes, in that sense you are correct. However, if the N64 would have had a CD-ROM they probably would have released it on that platform, which again, makes it a technical question. N64 with CD-ROM=FF7 (possibly), N64 without CD-ROM=no FF7 (fact).

Here are some quotes to ponder in the meantime.

Yoshinori Kitase (director of FF7):

"But as our goal was to develop the next-generation RPG we came to the conclusion that only a high capacity mass storage media would facilitate what we wanted to achieve. This meant CD was the only option and so from that perspective, PlayStation was the only choice."

http://www.edge-online.com/features/making-final-fantasy-vii/

Hironobu Sakaguchi:

"As a result of using a lot of motion data + CG effects and in still images, it turned out to be a mega capacity game, and therefore we had to choose CD-ROM as our media"

http://www.lostlevels.org/200510/


For gods sake, look up  memory mapping. The game didn't need x number of cartridges, it could have worked on one cartridge if paging was incorporated. Once again, Square mentioned that they made a game too big that couldn't fit (it could, except they'd be looking in the realm of $400 manufacturing or so in manufacturing costs to put it onto ROM. Once again, if the price per MB for ROM was the same as CD, it WOULD have been on the N64, on a SINGLE cartridge, since the only thing that CDs offer over ROM is cheap $/MB, nothing more...

I did and I think you misunderstand the concept somewhat. Memory mapping refers to a technique called bank switching. This gives a console the ability to retrieve data from multiple ROM-banks. It does not magically give a ROM the capacity to store more information, you would still need to cram a 1.8GB ROM inside the cart. Now, I'm not saying this could not be done, but as it was more than 15 years ago, I'll go out on a limb and claim it was practically impossible to do on a normal sized cartridge.

Firstly, if you've played the game, you'll understand that as a whole, the game is NOT 1.8GB. There is a ton of doubling up of resources between the discs in order for the game to run seamlessly (ie. not asking to insert a previous disk if you decide to visit a town no longer relevant to the game's storyline). A few have speculated that without such need, the game would be closer to 1GB. 

If you've looked in cartridges from previous generations, you'd probably see that you do not have to place the entire game on one ROM IC. The page mapper can easily reference more than one ROM should it need to. They could have easily had 4x256MB ROM ICs (keep in mind that there ARE IC forms smaller than the traditional "spider" look, and Nintendo used them frequently in SNES cartridges. There was plenty of PCB space, even on the N64 cart, but once again, it all comes down to cost.


LOL, a cartridge big enough to store FF7 circa 1997 would cost more than the N64 system itself ... scratch that, it'd probably cost more than the N64 + Playstation consoles combined. 



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fordy said:
Barbarossa said:
fordy said:
Barbarossa said:
fordy said:
Barbarossa said:
fordy said:
Barbarossa said:

Battle.net maybe? With blizzard supporting it not impossible I guess and you also said they kind of mentioned it already. Oh, does this mean WoW on PS4?

fordy said:







DanneSandin said:







fordy said:







DanneSandin said:







 

He doesn't have to have that since he's a developer... What he's told me is that 3rd parties is sick and tired of the way Nintendo is acting; I don't know if he represents the whole industry...



Developers don't make the decisions, the executives do. If he doesn't have to have much business sense, then he also shouldn't be speaking for EXECUTIVE business decisions. How is this, therefore, a "trustworthy source"?


I'm calling BS on this. It lacks common sense and defies any kind of business logic.



I couldn't agree more, and that's why I said that Nintendo is fucking up big times.




Nintendo is fucking up because your agument is illogical? No, they've been doing so long before that.


 


Let me give you an example of this. I'm an executive, and I call for a game to be developed for the Wii. Now, as an executive, how do you think I'd react if my developers came back and said "We refuse to develop for the Wii because we're not entitled to the same memory allocation as Nintendo"? Keep in mind that the executive doesn't give two shits about technicalities, they're in charge of financial and overall business decisions.


A working example of this was Square moving from Nintendo exlcusitivity. It wasn't done on a TECHNICAL sense. It was done on a FINANCIAL sense. In fact, look up some youtube videos on the history of Squaresoft, and the workers at the time explained how executives came in one day and just told the team "We're going with PlayStation now". It wasn't the devs making this decision, they just did what they were told. A lot of devs were excited, and a lot of devs were disappointed by the decision, but they still had to follow executive orders.


I think Square abandoned Nintendo because of the lack of a cd-rom. They just thought it was the future, turns out they were right. A mistake Nintendo still haven't recovered from.

 


If cartridges costed the same per MB as CDs, do you think that Square would have moved? 

Once again, the technical details didn't bother them. After all, originally they weren't phased by it since they made a demo of FF7 for the N64. It was when they made a massive game that was going to be incredibly expensive to fit on cartridge that they decided to take the cheaper option of CDs. This has been mentioned many times by Square staff in interviews. Once again, purely financial decision. They didn't do it just because "CDs are the future".

Yes, I think they would have moved anyway because the game they wanted to make would not have fit on a cartridge.

FF7= 3 CD-roms, total game size roughly 1.8 GB according to Sony. N64 cartridge=64MB

http://xenon.stanford.edu/~geksiong/papers/sts145/Squaresoft%20and%20FF7.htm

This article features some interesting tidbits of what happened. Presumably Enix's Dragon Quest left Nintendo for the same reason.

Of course, there was a financial aspect as well, plus Nintendos relationship with Square seemed somewhat infectious at the time. In this case, though, I believe the technical limitations was the main reason for the split because it inhibited their artistic vision for the game.


Once again, if the PRICE PER MB of cartridge ROM matched CDs, what would be the point of moving?

The number you quoted is ADRESSABLE cartridge space. Look up memory mappers to see how the NES bypassed it's 32KB space limit.

As Yamauchi said, they could fit ANY size game on a cart, and he was right...to an extent. The only thing holding them back WAS cost.

Actually, I'm going to admit you're theoretically right since it could've been possible to change carts. 1.8 GB on 64 MB carts means about 30 cartridges. So, yes, in that sense you are correct. However, if the N64 would have had a CD-ROM they probably would have released it on that platform, which again, makes it a technical question. N64 with CD-ROM=FF7 (possibly), N64 without CD-ROM=no FF7 (fact).

Here are some quotes to ponder in the meantime.

Yoshinori Kitase (director of FF7):

"But as our goal was to develop the next-generation RPG we came to the conclusion that only a high capacity mass storage media would facilitate what we wanted to achieve. This meant CD was the only option and so from that perspective, PlayStation was the only choice."

http://www.edge-online.com/features/making-final-fantasy-vii/

Hironobu Sakaguchi:

"As a result of using a lot of motion data + CG effects and in still images, it turned out to be a mega capacity game, and therefore we had to choose CD-ROM as our media"

http://www.lostlevels.org/200510/


For gods sake, look up  memory mapping. The game didn't need x number of cartridges, it could have worked on one cartridge if paging was incorporated. Once again, Square mentioned that they made a game too big that couldn't fit (it could, except they'd be looking in the realm of $400 manufacturing or so in manufacturing costs to put it onto ROM. Once again, if the price per MB for ROM was the same as CD, it WOULD have been on the N64, on a SINGLE cartridge, since the only thing that CDs offer over ROM is cheap $/MB, nothing more...

I did and I think you misunderstand the concept somewhat. Memory mapping refers to a technique called bank switching. This gives a console the ability to retrieve data from multiple ROM-banks. It does not magically give a ROM the capacity to store more information, you would still need to cram a 1.8GB ROM inside the cart. Now, I'm not saying this could not be done, but as it was more than 15 years ago, I'll go out on a limb and claim it was practically impossible to do on a normal sized cartridge.

Firstly, if you've played the game, you'll understand that as a whole, the game is NOT 1.8GB. There is a ton of doubling up of resources between the discs in order for the game to run seamlessly (ie. not asking to insert a previous disk if you decide to visit a town no longer relevant to the game's storyline). A few have speculated that without such need, the game would be closer to 1GB. 

If you've looked in cartridges from previous generations, you'd probably see that you do not have to place the entire game on one ROM IC. The page mapper can easily reference more than one ROM should it need to. They could have easily had 4x256MB ROM ICs (keep in mind that there ARE IC forms smaller than the traditional "spider" look, and Nintendo used them frequently in SNES cartridges. There was plenty of PCB space, even on the N64 cart, but once again, it all comes down to cost.

Hm, I think you're right. I stand corrected. :)



Soundwave said:


LOL, a cartridge big enough to store FF7 circa 1997 would cost more than the N64 system itself ... scratch that, it'd probably cost more than the N64 + Playstation consoles combined. 


EXACTLY MY POINT!

Thank you for confirming that cartridges were a COST limitation, not a technical one....



Gnac said:
richardhutnik said:

War and Peace I am sure doesn't need that amount of space.  Will see what happens when implementing games though and so on.  Still, with this is very much an increase in dev costs.  Will see how it goes.  What it means is Nintendo is not able to partake in what games come out for the other two.

This is a nebulous statement, and has little value when debating the future of a company that has defiantly survived, and furthermore, thrived, in spite of what people think they should or should not do.

There is enough space to do stories now that can be engaging.  What is at issue is GAMES, and the ability to have them stay up to date.  I think posting your original quote would be useful to understand what the heck this is about now.

Also, if you get too oddball with your system, and don't have huge sales, it ends up not mapping to what third-party wants, so they wll shun a console and be less inclined to develop for it.  The next Microsoft console and the PS4 should be real close specwise, so third-party will feel it ok to end up developing both.  Being real short on RAM means that they are really less inclined to do stuff for the Wii U.  That is reality, and really doesn't affect your point of "imagine the story" point.



Rogerioandrade said:

Producing a game for a Nintendo console is a different job. Like the developers at Ubisoft right now are claiming that "they don´t know what to do" with the GamePad for WatchDogs.

"The Wii U's GamePad is considered a "natural" fit for Watch Dogs, according to senior producer Dominic Guay."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/393217/wii-u-gamepad-perfect-fit-for-watch-dogs-says-senior-producer/



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theRepublic said:
Rogerioandrade said:

Producing a game for a Nintendo console is a different job. Like the developers at Ubisoft right now are claiming that "they don´t know what to do" with the GamePad for WatchDogs.

"The Wii U's GamePad is considered a "natural" fit for Watch Dogs, according to senior producer Dominic Guay."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/393217/wii-u-gamepad-perfect-fit-for-watch-dogs-says-senior-producer/

is WatchDogs a Ubi game? isnt this the same company that said some similar crap about Rayman Legends, didnt they go as far as to say that game would not be possible on another system?