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Forums - Sony - Why PSABR, Twisted Metal and Starhawk flopped

JWeinCom said:
JoeTheBro said:
EspadaGrim said:
JoeTheBro said:
EspadaGrim said:
You forgot LBPK.


If you played LBPK you'd know it's actually really good.


We are talking about game sales

This thread is saying these games sold poorly because they were bad. LBPK sold poorly for different reasons.

 

Also to everyone else I'm pointing out that PSASBR as a contradiction to the claim that it's a bad game and deserved these sales.

No, it's still a mediocre game and deserves those sales.  The fact that it won an award from DICE doesn't negate the fact that every other game nominated had a higher aggregate review score.  It doesn't change the fact that the game is so barebones that Sony should really be sort of embarassed about releasing it in that state.  It doesn't change the fact that the game is poorly balanced or that the game's developers were clearly confused about what type of game they were making.  It doesn't change the fact that I've played the game and it's really not that good.

Game sold what it should.


Man, it seems like internet people sure use the word "fact" the way I use the phrase "in my opinion".

It is not a FACT that PSASBR was/is a bad game nor that it deserves its less than great sales.

As a matter of FACT, the game received overall good reviews. Some bad, some good, some great, but the general consensus was that it was a good game, though with some issues. Many reviewers scored it down because of the ugly menus (fair point, but doesn't affect its gameplay) and for being a Smash "rip-off". The gameplay was considered actually very good. 

Now, in my opinion, the game is amazing. It deserves a 9 for being incredibly fun to play. If I were to review it, I'd give it an 8 though. Say whatever you want. The game was not bad. Sales do not always reflect quality, as evident by many superb games that flopped and many extremely terrible games (and by terrible I mean games that both consumers and critics hated) that sold well.

Even if you personally hate Uncharted 2 or Halo 3, it does not mean you should state as a fact that they are bad games. They may be good games, but not your cup of tea.



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AnthonyW86 said:

Anyone who's saying PSASBR didn't flop for Sony, it was supposed to be the Super Smash Brothers for Playstation(although i realize Mario etc. is a stronger franchise). Anyone wants to compare sales between those games? Yeah didn't think so. But heres the truth, i think PSASBR sold exactly like i expected it to sell for what it is: a mediocre game.

I bought PSASBR and i was royaly dissapointed, it just isn't much fun. The whole mechanic of finishing opponents with a ''finish move'' ruins it for me. The rest of the fighting is pointless, since you don't do any damage and it just serves to fill your finish move meter. Also the weapons that you can pick up are hardly interesting, and again you can't finish anyone of with them. The fun of Super Smash Brothers was trying to hang on to a life with like 300%/400% and not get knocked of the stage. And then the singleplayer challenges witch aren't interesting, some bad characters(Nathan Drake for example) etc. etc.

I consider PSASBR to be an ''okay'' game but i wouldn't give it any more than a 6/6.5 out of 10.

Just curious. Why did you buy the game? Did you not play the beta? Did you not hear about the finishing moves? It's not like it was something they decided to include at the last minute.

Also, about the weapons, yes you can. The head of the medusa turns your opponent into stone and you just have to attack them once and they die. I get that it's all a matter of taste and that's fine, but I just don't get how you were unware of the finishing moves.



Tekken TT 2 sold 660k according to vgcharts.

Dead or alive 5 was also a success according to siliconera:

Tecmo Koei reported sales numbers for Dead or Alive 5 in their latest financial briefing. The fighting game sold 580,000 units worldwide and contributed to the consumer game division’s 869 million ($10.9 million) operating profit.



KylieDog said:
osed125 said:
JoeTheBro said:
PSASBR was amazing and has sold over half a million copies. Nuff said.

You know 500k units is pretty low for a AAA game right?


It isn't a AAA game.


Ir may not be triple AAA in terms of its budget (judging by its graphics+content), but it was undeniably Sony flaship title for the fall on PS3. This means they were expecting this to push hardware and to easily pass 1m within its 1s month. They probably expected around 500k during launch week, I remember they kept begging hwo this game was for everyone and hoping that it would broaden sony's userbase. Foget about its genre, this was intended as a crowd pleasing living room game. Successfull games of its kind (mario kart/smash bro) either have explosive holdiay sales or average start yet extremely long legs. 

Theres a reason why Sony seperated with Superbot and Superbot suffered "significant" Layoffs. The game flopped, both in expectation and probably in recouping its cost+marketing.



Very simple. They wasnt good. Just mediocre games. That pretty much sums it up




       

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Yeah, no.  I'm gonna have to disagree with you heavily on that one.  You raise some good points in the OP for why those games didn't perform as well as they could have done, which are definitely factors, but ultimately it's the complete lack of marketing that killed all 3 of these games.

So, let's take your example of Starhawk.  You said the campaign was horrible and not worth your time.  That's completely opinion, and although I'll admit too that Starhawk's campaign was underwhelming, but it definitely wasn't bad and you could finish the whole thing in about 5 hours.  But that's not why it didn't sell well.  People didn't say "Oh, it has a short campaign" so they didn't go out to buy it.  Warhawk sold 1 million without any single-player mode.  MAG sold 1.25 million without any single-player mode.  The strength of the multi-player offerings made these games sell, and just like those two, Starhawk boasting an impressive, innovative and enjoyable multi-player (just like Warhawk before it).  But absolutely no-one knew about it.  The beta came and went, and then the game released without a blip.  You can check this reddit thread I posted the day it released, noting the number of replies saying things like "I had no idea this was coming out" or "Why wasn't this advertised?"

Twisted Metal has been a series in decline ever since the second game on PS1 where it peaked, in a genre that has all but disappeared from modern development.  If you look at sales figures for the series, then apart from the blip where Black sold more than 4 (and even then, it was barely an increase despite the fact that Black was heavily praised while 4 was held to be quite average), the trend has undoubtedly been downwards.  I will admit, another big issue with Twisted Metal - that other people have mentioned in the thread - was that it was completely broken at launch.  The online was spotty and worked horribly until about 3 months after launch when they bothered to fix it, but by then it was too late.  I see what you're saying about playable characters, but honestly, I don't see how that can have affected more than a couple of sales.  Hardcore fans would buy it regardless of whether there were just 3 character stories or not; casual fans probably only know who Sweet Tooth is anyway.

PSABR was actually advertised quite heavily I'm told (not in my country, but in mainland Europe I hear that adverts were on quite a lot) so about this one - yes, I agree, it was an ill-fated project from the start.  I'm going to quote KylieDog's post about the sales of fighting games last year for exposure, though, because although PSABR did indeed flop, pretty much every fighting game flopped last year without any exceptions.  

So yeah, tl;dr version: Starhawk's complete lack of advertising killed it more than anything else - PS3 owners previously bought multi-player only games quite happily but they didn't buy a game that they didn't know about.  Twisted Metal was a decent effort in a dying genre plagued again by no advertising, but also hit by server issues which killed word-of-mouth.  PSABR flopped like every other fighting game last year.



KylieDog said:

The gameplay of PSASBR is solid.

Listing last years fighters....

570k - SFxT PS3
520k - SCV PS3
440k - SCV 360
430k - TTT2 PS3
410k - PSASBR PS3
340k - P4A PS3
300k - SFxT 360
290k - MK Vita
280k - DOA5 PS3
180k - TTT2 360
120k - PSASBR Vita
110k - DOA5 360
80k - P4A 360
70k - SFxT Vita
50k - TTT2 WiiU


...but only PSASBR is a flop? Even though most of the others have had a lot longer time to sell. Or maybe the fighting genre isn't very big and also suffers from too many titles?


Quoting for exposure.  



Lol best fighting game of the year in a generation when fighting games have little to no interest by consumers? Yeah not a hard accolade to earn in that genre. Starhwak and Twisted Metal among others flopped because their was no interest in either of those games It's not hard to figure out no interest equals low sales. Also another reason could be series fatigue Twisted Metal, Socom, Little Big Planet are all showing signs of fatigue. I wouldn't be surprised if we never hear from Twisted Metal or Socom again. We will see mor LBP though since that game still manages to sell 2 million copies with it's last release (at least the console version that is).



How can anyone use Kevin Butler as an example of great marketing. He was one of many problems that is wrong with Sony's marketing.

Lets think about something. What was Sony putting over in their Kevin Butler ads? You came away from a Kevin Butler commercial thinking about Kevin Butler and not the game because they barely showed the game and 95 percent of it was Butler saying or doing something funny that had no connection to the game.



Kresnik said:
KylieDog said:

The gameplay of PSASBR is solid.

Listing last years fighters....

570k - SFxT PS3
520k - SCV PS3
440k - SCV 360
430k - TTT2 PS3
410k - PSASBR PS3
340k - P4A PS3
300k - SFxT 360
290k - MK Vita
280k - DOA5 PS3
180k - TTT2 360
120k - PSASBR Vita
110k - DOA5 360
80k - P4A 360
70k - SFxT Vita
50k - TTT2 WiiU


...but only PSASBR is a flop? Even though most of the others have had a lot longer time to sell. Or maybe the fighting genre isn't very big and also suffers from too many titles?


Quoting for exposure.  

You're ignoring the budget of those games and how much some of them have made in the arcades.