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Forums - Gaming - Wii U graphics power finally revealed - "we can now finally rule out any next-gen pretensions for the Wii U"

ninjablade said:
Hynad said:
ninjablade said:
Hynad said:
ninjablade said:

360 doesn't lose ram to the os.


Of course not. The OS is floating free in some sort of gaz inside the 360's shell.


you actually want me to mention 16mb of ram, it's pointless and silly, i will put in my sig, like it make a differnce.


The 360's OS uses 32MB of the RAM and 3% of 2 CPU Cores. 

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

its 16mb, it has access to 32mb, google can be your friend, how many times do i have to correct you. 

The filesystem is 16MB, when running there's 32MB of the system's memory reserved for it. Will you ever understand the stuff you read?



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curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:

Yes it does. Like Wii U, not all of the 360's RAM is available for games. 32MB is  taken up by the OS, leaving 480MB, not 512MB. So it has less than half as much memory is available for games as on Wii U.

its 16mb by the way, its not even worth mentioning

So pretty much, if it doesn't fit your agenda, it's "not worth mentioning."


no its because, it doesn't make a differnce, 1gb is is 50% of wiiu memory , i think that's worth a mention if it was 64mb i would not mention it.

The point of specs is that they are "specific" is it not? If you mention the RAM used by the OS on one console, it makes sense to do it for the other.

Speaking of which, what about the other 7th gen HD console, the PS3? On launch its OS took  up 120MB, leaving just 392MB for games.

It's had its OS trimmed to 50MB since then, leaving 462MB for games. The 3DS also saw more RAM freed up post launch. It's entirely possible that the Wii U might see a similar trim. In fact, it's very likely in order to make porting easier since the PS4 and Nextbox will have more RAM.


the ram amount is the least of the wii problem, it's the bandwidth speed that's the problem. 



ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:

Yes it does. Like Wii U, not all of the 360's RAM is available for games. 32MB is  taken up by the OS, leaving 480MB, not 512MB. So it has less than half as much memory is available for games as on Wii U.

its 16mb by the way, its not even worth mentioning

So pretty much, if it doesn't fit your agenda, it's "not worth mentioning."


no its because, it doesn't make a differnce, 1gb is is 50% of wiiu memory , i think that's worth a mention if it was 64mb i would not mention it.

The point of specs is that they are "specific" is it not? If you mention the RAM used by the OS on one console, it makes sense to do it for the other.

Speaking of which, what about the other 7th gen HD console, the PS3? On launch its OS took  up 120MB, leaving just 392MB for games.

It's had its OS trimmed to 50MB since then, leaving 462MB for games. The 3DS also saw more RAM freed up post launch. It's entirely possible that the Wii U might see a similar trim. In fact, it's very likely in order to make porting easier since the PS4 and Nextbox will have more RAM.


the ram amount is the least of the wii problem, it's the bandwidth speed that's the problem. 

Every system has its bottleneck. For the PS3 and 360, it was RAM quantity. Having more than double their RAM gives the Wii U a distinct advantage.



curl-6 said:
Sadly, I fear you are right. A Zelda in the style shown at E3 2011 would be amazing, but knowing Nintendo they'll opt for some sickly Nickelodeon look instead, like Wind Waker and Skyward Sword.

I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't mind one bit if Nintendo decided to stick with cel-shading for Zelda.



Hynad said:
ninjablade said:
Hynad said:
ninjablade said:
Hynad said:
ninjablade said:

360 doesn't lose ram to the os.


Of course not. The OS is floating free in some sort of gaz inside the 360's shell.


you actually want me to mention 16mb of ram, it's pointless and silly, i will put in my sig, like it make a differnce.


The 360's OS uses 32MB of the RAM and 3% of 2 CPU Cores. 

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

its 16mb, it has access to 32mb, google can be your friend, how many times do i have to correct you. 

The filesystem is 16MB, when running there's 32MB of the system's memory reserved for it. Will you ever understand the stuff you read?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_system_software  it has access, doesn't mean is reserved, now unless microsoft made a rule of not touching the 16mb then fine, but we really don't know, cause when your playing a game they could let you use those 16mb if they wanted too, cause you would not be using the os.



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is there a ignore feature on this forum.



Aielyn said:
curl-6 said:
Sadly, I fear you are right. A Zelda in the style shown at E3 2011 would be amazing, but knowing Nintendo they'll opt for some sickly Nickelodeon look instead, like Wind Waker and Skyward Sword.

I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't mind one bit if Nintendo decided to stick with cel-shading for Zelda.


I'm not a fan, for me cel shading too often results in bland masses of colour. I don't want it  to look like Skyrim, that would be boring, but that Zelda tech demo looks exactly how my dream Wii U Zelda would look; such an elegant blend of realistic yet stylised. 

Looking at Nintendo's history though, (Skyward Sword, the DS Zeldas, Wind Waker on GC -a console similiar in philosophy to Wii U- and Wind Waker HD) I'm sure we'll get one that's too cartoony for me. Does Nintendo not realize how many gamers would be sold by a "Twilight Princess in modern graphics" visual look for the next entry instead of another toon one?



ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:

Yes it does. Like Wii U, not all of the 360's RAM is available for games. 32MB is  taken up by the OS, leaving 480MB, not 512MB. So it has less than half as much memory is available for games as on Wii U.

its 16mb by the way, its not even worth mentioning

So pretty much, if it doesn't fit your agenda, it's "not worth mentioning."


no its because, it doesn't make a differnce, 1gb is is 50% of wiiu memory , i think that's worth a mention if it was 64mb i would not mention it.

The point of specs is that they are "specific" is it not? If you mention the RAM used by the OS on one console, it makes sense to do it for the other.

Speaking of which, what about the other 7th gen HD console, the PS3? On launch its OS took  up 120MB, leaving just 392MB for games.

It's had its OS trimmed to 50MB since then, leaving 462MB for games. The 3DS also saw more RAM freed up post launch. It's entirely possible that the Wii U might see a similar trim. In fact, it's very likely in order to make porting easier since the PS4 and Nextbox will have more RAM.


the ram amount is the least of the wii problem, it's the bandwidth speed that's the problem. 

You don't know that. The 22.4GB/s on the 360 is theoretical, and it is not able to get to this peak. In addition, it uses half for reads and half for writes, so theoretical max of 11.2GB/s for reads, the WiiU can use the full 12.8 for reads (if this is the actual number, developers have suggested real-world performance appears to be much higher). Since most of the writing to the RAM can be done when a scene or level is loaded, the RAM usage would be very read heavy during properly coded games (and would be greatly optimized by the customized memory controller), meaning this 'bottleneck' may not be the huge issue you're making it out to be. You also aren't taking into account latency, which is a huge factor. Nintendo has said the memory system is very low latency, and developers have confirmed this in their praise of the memory architecture. The cache memory on the GPU and CPU's is also much larger and faster than that on the 360, meaning cache misses resulting in lost real-world FLOPS are greatly reduced or eliminated (and the OOOE on the CPU further reduces cache miss performance loss for CPU tasks, a major issue holding back the performance on the 360's CPU compared to its theoretical performance), another reason why a straight-line comparison is a moot point. Also, there is a more efficient, modern memory controller onboard (meaning the theoretical max is much closer to real-world, and that R/W optomizations are used to maximize bandwidth and cache usage, eliminating or greatly reducing the theoretical bottleneck you describe), as well as hardware texture compression that also goes against your point. Future 'ground-up' games for the system will prove me right.



ninjablade said:
is there a ignore feature on this forum.

Yes... don't reply. o.O



BlueFalcon said:
zero129 said:
You looking at a PC gamer bud, just look at my games list. But your also looking at a multi console owner too.

And to what i bolded makes the rest of your post not even worth responding to imo, clearly your biased....

Left 4 Dead, LA Noire, all Need for Speed games, Sniper Elite V2, Skyrim, Just Cause 2, Far Cry 2, Alan Wake, Ghost Recon, Call of Duty, Burnout Revenge, GTA IV, etc. Why would I buy any of those games on the Xbox 360 over my PC? Skyrim on a console? A complete waste of time for a PC gamer. Not only that but every single one of those games you bought for 360 cost me way less on the PC because of Steam/GOG/Origin. So again, I'd get inferior graphics, controls, no mods, and pay more $$ for those games. Makes no sense. 

Other than Project Gotham Racing (good game but I prefer Forza), Gears of War and Halo, nearly everything else you have on there like Red Dead Redemption, Fifa, Fighting/Boxing games have either exact same games or similar games on PS3. So I'd have to buy an Xbox 360 for Halo, Forza, PGR and GOW only. 

Xbox 360 is easily the most redundant console for a PC gamer. For most high-end PC gamers what makes consoles exciting/worth it are their exclusives. Otherwise they are pretty much worthless unless you are a big time COD or sports fan and have a ton of console friends who play those games online. But then you'd have to pay Xbox Live fees.  Why do that when it's free on PS3 for those same titles? Again makes no sense financially. Xbox 360 has the weakest library of exclusives out of last 3 consoles and it costs money to play COD/sports games with your console friends. Also, some of these titles like Halo, Fable and Gears you can even buy on the PC.

I browsed various PC forums since Xbox 360 launched. The general consensus is that the least popular console among hardcore PC gamers is the Xbox 360 for all the reasons I outlied above. You just happen to be in the minority of PC gamers who sees value in the 360 and got butthurt that I outlined all the reasons why Xbox 360 is redundant for most PC gamers.

 

TL;DR:

Why pay more $ for Xbox games that look worse, have no mods, run like a dog at 20-30 fps at 1280x720 resolutions or lower when my PC crushes all those games for less $? And then to play multi-plats online with my console friends I have to pay online Xbox Live fees when PS3 offers online for free for same multiplayer cross-platform titles??!! What kind of logic is that? I didn't become a PC gamer because I like wasting my $ on worse gaming experiences.

Absolutely not. I spent most of this gen with Wii + PC and still bought a 360. 360 is less popular among PC games, sure, but that is because they don't know that the console has way more than Halo, Gears and Forza, which is just what you proved in this post. You can't play Ace Combat 6, Dead or Alive 4, Magna Carta 2, Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Banjo-Kazooie, Project Sylpheed, Infinite Undiscovery, PGR, Perfect Dark, Kameo, Viva Pinãta, etc, and many exclusive XB Live Arcade games on the PS3 or PC. Also, the multiplats that aren't on PC have their better versions on the 360, like Eternal Sonata, Red Dead Redemption, Star Ocean 4, AC Assault Horizon, etc, so the whole argument you made is because you don't know the game library of the Xbox.

That stuff about PS3 having more exclusives isn't real, both the 360 and Wii have more exclusives than PS3, it just happens that somebody decided to say otherwise and nobody cares about actually looking the game library of the consoles. I'm sure if you looked deeper into 360's library you would probably have found many other exclusives that you could care about.

About 360 vs PC multiplats I totally agree with you. I just have a 360 here for the exclusives and better versions of PS3 multiplats, because every other game that releases on every platform i buy for PC, which has better graphics, control options and prices. Buying multiplatform games for 360 that are also on PC makes no sense(considering you have a capable PC, of course).