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Forums - Gaming - Wii U graphics power finally revealed - "we can now finally rule out any next-gen pretensions for the Wii U"

BlueFalcon said:

 

ethomaz said:
Seems like the Nextbox have "special sauce" units to help and free up the GPU... so less work to GPU... in the end the performance is near the PS4.

It's like that...

PS4 power: 5 task per cycle
260 power:  3 task per cycle

You have to run 5 tasks in both GPU but the Nextbox can do 2 tasks in the "special sauce" units... so at the end both give you the same performance. Of course that a dummy example lol... and these tasks are not for graphics at all (it is but not shaders specifics)...

Source? 

 

ethomaz said:
Another point is that PS4 will reserve only 896 shaders units (1.4TFLOPS) for graphics... the others 256 shaders units (400GFLOPS) will be free to developer use for anything (graphics, GPGPU, etc).

I already explained to you why this makes no sense. All the shaders in HD7000 are the same. Sony does not need to use different shaders since they don't care about BC with PS3 on a hardware level. If you had 2 arms, would you only do push-ups with 1 arm? If you have 1152 shaders, you can use all of them. Unified shader + compute architecture of Graphics Core next allows ANY shader to do compute or graphical work. You do not need to "free up" 256 Shaders for GPGPU tasks. This is not how game code works. 

ethomaz said:
At the end what will show how good the console perform is the optimizations and full use of the hardware.

Ya and PS4 seems to be easier to code for/optimize directly to the metal of the hardware and supposedly has a lower OS overhead based on comments from developers.

http://www.edge-online.com/news/the-next-xbox-always-online-no-second-hand-games-50gb-blu-ray-discs-and-new-kinect/

+1 Sony

0 MS

the article says microsft is investing heavily in motion controls, has weaker graphics then ps4 and no used games support, if true i hope microsoft fails nextgen, sounds horrible.



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zero129 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:

we do have the specs for the most part http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-wii-u-graphics-power-finally-revealed

look under my sig those are all confirmed specs barring some kind of miracle.

The specs are incomplete, and some of them are assumptions rather than fact.


did you read the article, most of it is cold hard facts, at first some people said eurogamer rushed the article but its going on 2 days now and nobody corrected anything, even neogaf are accepting the 352 gflops numbers now here is quote i found intersting in the comment section.

 

Am I the only one being shocked by the fact that the Wii U CPU is basically the same type that I had in my 1998 PowerMac G3?! Am I correct here, it's basically a triple-core overclocked PowerPC 750?!! ROFLMAO! No wonder the poor ports and performance, the GPU on that thing is no powerhouse by any means but that ancient CPU architecture is choking it blue. A 3DFX Voodoo2 would have been a better match. They'd be better off if they'd stuck a current low-end, dual-core celeron in there instead but I guess they got a ridiculously good deal on tons of left-over GC/Wii CPU's laying around the manufacturers warehouse. Facepalm Nintendo, facepalm...

I read the article; there's plenty of unknown factors and guesstimates. And I'm not sure how a troll post helps your point?

i don't see how its a troll post it actaully makes sense, why they put such a weak cpu in the machine, anyway i believe DF, they have a amazing track record, no reason to doubt them and nobody has proved them wrong. 

"I guess they got a ridiculously good deal on tons of left-over GC/Wii CPU's laying around the manufacturers warehouse. Facepalm Nintendo, facepalm..." That's trolling. People who drop those kind of lines strike me as people who are not going to give an objective perspective on Nintendo hardware. Not to mention, it hasn't been proven that the Wii U CPU is a "triple core overclocked PowerPC 750", in fact it's most likely not. It might be based on it for backwards compatibility purposes, but newer chips are often "based" on older ones because they're a direct descendent, just with improvements that come over time like large/faster caches, more cores, etc.

Nobody has proven Digital Foundry's analysis right either. What will prove it one way or another are games that come out once developers get a handle on the system's innards.


seems to me like he's a nintendo fan thats updset about the cpu but anything negative is called trolling. as i 360 fan, DF  broke the first real news about ps4 being more powerful and i believed them, i will alway trust DF and beyond3d, some those guys on neogaf are using wishful thinking instead of hard facts, most of them thrakter, bigassian claimg 600 flops, while more reasonable members told them 300-350 gflops.

See you only like to believe the stuff that agrees with what you want to believe without taking other facts into account. This is all ill say on the subject to you as clearly you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to this..


Yep, both ninjablade & Chark are PS fanboys who deny everything that shows that Nintendo is doing even 1 good thing during the present.

its like Dealing with 2D fanboys, except at least the 2D fanboys admit that they have a 2D agenda.

But it's like both PS fanboys & 2D fanboys have nothing else better to do but spend all day attacking everything in opposition.

I own Playstation & Nintendo & Sega Systems.

But I can only afford 2 consoles & 2 handhelds at a time (during any one Generation) but luckily the Vita library made it so I could just save money for a 3DS XL instead of PS Vita, but then the 3D effect in the Newer 3DS games made me save money for something else instead of 3DS XL.

So I just got extra cash laying around outside of what I got plan for Wii U & PS4. And the 3D movies in theaters won't cut it, LOL.

 

-this user was moderated for this post by amp316 



Kaizar said:
zero129 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:

we do have the specs for the most part http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-wii-u-graphics-power-finally-revealed

look under my sig those are all confirmed specs barring some kind of miracle.

The specs are incomplete, and some of them are assumptions rather than fact.


did you read the article, most of it is cold hard facts, at first some people said eurogamer rushed the article but its going on 2 days now and nobody corrected anything, even neogaf are accepting the 352 gflops numbers now here is quote i found intersting in the comment section.

 

Am I the only one being shocked by the fact that the Wii U CPU is basically the same type that I had in my 1998 PowerMac G3?! Am I correct here, it's basically a triple-core overclocked PowerPC 750?!! ROFLMAO! No wonder the poor ports and performance, the GPU on that thing is no powerhouse by any means but that ancient CPU architecture is choking it blue. A 3DFX Voodoo2 would have been a better match. They'd be better off if they'd stuck a current low-end, dual-core celeron in there instead but I guess they got a ridiculously good deal on tons of left-over GC/Wii CPU's laying around the manufacturers warehouse. Facepalm Nintendo, facepalm...

I read the article; there's plenty of unknown factors and guesstimates. And I'm not sure how a troll post helps your point?

i don't see how its a troll post it actaully makes sense, why they put such a weak cpu in the machine, anyway i believe DF, they have a amazing track record, no reason to doubt them and nobody has proved them wrong. 

"I guess they got a ridiculously good deal on tons of left-over GC/Wii CPU's laying around the manufacturers warehouse. Facepalm Nintendo, facepalm..." That's trolling. People who drop those kind of lines strike me as people who are not going to give an objective perspective on Nintendo hardware. Not to mention, it hasn't been proven that the Wii U CPU is a "triple core overclocked PowerPC 750", in fact it's most likely not. It might be based on it for backwards compatibility purposes, but newer chips are often "based" on older ones because they're a direct descendent, just with improvements that come over time like large/faster caches, more cores, etc.

Nobody has proven Digital Foundry's analysis right either. What will prove it one way or another are games that come out once developers get a handle on the system's innards.


seems to me like he's a nintendo fan thats updset about the cpu but anything negative is called trolling. as i 360 fan, DF  broke the first real news about ps4 being more powerful and i believed them, i will alway trust DF and beyond3d, some those guys on neogaf are using wishful thinking instead of hard facts, most of them thrakter, bigassian claimg 600 flops, while more reasonable members told them 300-350 gflops.

See you only like to believe the stuff that agrees with what you want to believe without taking other facts into account. This is all ill say on the subject to you as clearly you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to this..


Yep, both ninjablade & Chark are PS fanboys who deny everything that shows that Nintendo is doing even 1 good thing during the present.

its like Dealing with 2D fanboys, except at least the 2D fanboys admit that they have a 2D agenda.

But it's like both PS fanboys & 2D fanboys have nothing else better to do but spend all day attacking everything in opposition.

I own Playstation & Nintendo & Sega Systems.

But I can only afford 2 consoles & 2 handhelds at a time (during any one Generation) but luckily the Vita library made it so I could just save money for a 3DS XL instead of PS Vita, but then the 3D effect in the Newer 3DS games made me save money for something else instead of 3DS XL.

So I just got extra cash laying around outside of what I got plan for Wii U & PS4. And the 3D movies in theaters won't cut it, LOL.

i don't even own a a ps3, how can i be a sony fanboy, lol



^ Interesting that your sig fails to note that the 360 also loses some of it's RAM to the OS. Yep, completely unbiased summary right there...



ninjablade said:
the article says microsft is investing heavily in motion controls, has weaker graphics then ps4 and no used games support, if true i hope microsoft fails nextgen, sounds horrible.

Most likely worse 1st party game library (Xbox 1, Xbox 360 vs. PS2-3), expensive proprietary and slow MS HDDs vs. fully swappable ones for PS4 (I'll probably get a 512GB SSD once prices get to reasonable level on that side in 3 years), more focus on Xbox Live (which likely means continued fees). Does not sound appealing.



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ninjablade said:

no they said they did there own anlaysis they got the gpu pic from neogaf but not there analysis.

OK, then, let's use the article, because even from the article, you're wrong.

"Chipworks' shot is still being analysed"

"The answer comes from a mixture of known and unknown variables."

"The obvious suspect would be the Wii U's 1.2GHz CPU, a tri-core piece of hardware re-architected from the Wii's Broadway chip" - NOT a tri-core version of Broadway, but hardware that was re-architected from Broadway.

"However, there still plenty of unknowns to factor in too"

"... and effectively we have something approaching a full spec"

Even DF don't make the claim that it's cold hard facts.

And the fact that they had to update the die photo image because they had only marked half of the shader units says to me that they didn't do the analysis themselves... at least, the author didn't. And all of the information in the article, except for that exceptional and unsubstantiated claim right at the end, is information available from that NeoGAF thread - while there was an initial mistake regarding 20 vs 40 ALUs (I think that's what they referred to them as) that Beyond3D corrected NeoGAF about, NeoGAF has made more progress than Beyond3D on actually analysing it.



Aielyn said:
ninjablade said:

no they said they did there own anlaysis they got the gpu pic from neogaf but not there analysis.

OK, then, let's use the article, because even from the article, you're wrong.

"Chipworks' shot is still being analysed"

"The answer comes from a mixture of known and unknown variables."

"The obvious suspect would be the Wii U's 1.2GHz CPU, a tri-core piece of hardware re-architected from the Wii's Broadway chip" - NOT a tri-core version of Broadway, but hardware that was re-architected from Broadway.

"However, there still plenty of unknowns to factor in too"

"... and effectively we have something approaching a full spec"

Even DF don't make the claim that it's cold hard facts.

And the fact that they had to update the die photo image because they had only marked half of the shader units says to me that they didn't do the analysis themselves... at least, the author didn't. And all of the information in the article, except for that exceptional and unsubstantiated claim right at the end, is information available from that NeoGAF thread - while there was an initial mistake regarding 20 vs 40 ALUs (I think that's what they referred to them as) that Beyond3D corrected NeoGAF about, NeoGAF has made more progress than Beyond3D on actually analysing it.


no t true at all thrakter was coming out with a wild hypothesis of 470 gflops, and beyond3d memeber came and corrected him there is not one single fact neogaf came up with just assumptions so far and not even good ones.



ninjablade said:
[...ungodly amount of untrimmed text...]

i don't even own a a ps3, how can i be a sony fanboy, lol

Tell me, ninjablade... do you own one of these?



ninjablade said:
Kaizar said:
zero129 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:
curl-6 said:
ninjablade said:

we do have the specs for the most part http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-wii-u-graphics-power-finally-revealed

look under my sig those are all confirmed specs barring some kind of miracle.

The specs are incomplete, and some of them are assumptions rather than fact.


did you read the article, most of it is cold hard facts, at first some people said eurogamer rushed the article but its going on 2 days now and nobody corrected anything, even neogaf are accepting the 352 gflops numbers now here is quote i found intersting in the comment section.

 

Am I the only one being shocked by the fact that the Wii U CPU is basically the same type that I had in my 1998 PowerMac G3?! Am I correct here, it's basically a triple-core overclocked PowerPC 750?!! ROFLMAO! No wonder the poor ports and performance, the GPU on that thing is no powerhouse by any means but that ancient CPU architecture is choking it blue. A 3DFX Voodoo2 would have been a better match. They'd be better off if they'd stuck a current low-end, dual-core celeron in there instead but I guess they got a ridiculously good deal on tons of left-over GC/Wii CPU's laying around the manufacturers warehouse. Facepalm Nintendo, facepalm...

I read the article; there's plenty of unknown factors and guesstimates. And I'm not sure how a troll post helps your point?

i don't see how its a troll post it actaully makes sense, why they put such a weak cpu in the machine, anyway i believe DF, they have a amazing track record, no reason to doubt them and nobody has proved them wrong. 

"I guess they got a ridiculously good deal on tons of left-over GC/Wii CPU's laying around the manufacturers warehouse. Facepalm Nintendo, facepalm..." That's trolling. People who drop those kind of lines strike me as people who are not going to give an objective perspective on Nintendo hardware. Not to mention, it hasn't been proven that the Wii U CPU is a "triple core overclocked PowerPC 750", in fact it's most likely not. It might be based on it for backwards compatibility purposes, but newer chips are often "based" on older ones because they're a direct descendent, just with improvements that come over time like large/faster caches, more cores, etc.

Nobody has proven Digital Foundry's analysis right either. What will prove it one way or another are games that come out once developers get a handle on the system's innards.


seems to me like he's a nintendo fan thats updset about the cpu but anything negative is called trolling. as i 360 fan, DF  broke the first real news about ps4 being more powerful and i believed them, i will alway trust DF and beyond3d, some those guys on neogaf are using wishful thinking instead of hard facts, most of them thrakter, bigassian claimg 600 flops, while more reasonable members told them 300-350 gflops.

See you only like to believe the stuff that agrees with what you want to believe without taking other facts into account. This is all ill say on the subject to you as clearly you have no idea what your talking about when it comes to this..


Yep, both ninjablade & Chark are PS fanboys who deny everything that shows that Nintendo is doing even 1 good thing during the present.

its like Dealing with 2D fanboys, except at least the 2D fanboys admit that they have a 2D agenda.

But it's like both PS fanboys & 2D fanboys have nothing else better to do but spend all day attacking everything in opposition.

I own Playstation & Nintendo & Sega Systems.

But I can only afford 2 consoles & 2 handhelds at a time (during any one Generation) but luckily the Vita library made it so I could just save money for a 3DS XL instead of PS Vita, but then the 3D effect in the Newer 3DS games made me save money for something else instead of 3DS XL.

So I just got extra cash laying around outside of what I got plan for Wii U & PS4. And the 3D movies in theaters won't cut it, LOL.

i don't even own a a ps3, how can i be a sony fanboy, lol


Well, as long as you are not one of those 2D fanboys that wish that 3D would die from the industry then I'll stop talking smack, LOL.

but your Xbox only thing sounds like a American only philosophy that is use for a white supremacist mentality to brainwash into kids like shown in Nightline (with Ted whomever, that was shown earlier during the 21st century)



Aielyn said:
"The answer comes from a mixture of known and unknown variables."

OK look here is the deal. The most powerful R700 GPU ever made on 40nm node that approximates the 150mm2 die size of the Wii U's GPU is RV740 (HD4770). 

That GPU has 960Gflops of processing power, 750mhz GPU clock and 51.2GB/sec memory bandwidth and on its own used 80W of power. I believe the power block for the entire Wii U console is just 75W. Even if we assume that the Wii U has an HD4770 with all of its shaders, textures and ROPs intact (640:32:16), it still has a 27% lower GPU clock and just 12.8GB/sec memory bandwidth, or 75% less than HD4770's. That means in the best case, it would have just 50% of the power fo the HD4770 because dropping memory bandwidth from 51GB/sec to 12.8GB/sec is suicidal for GPUs. R300 Radeon 9700Pro GPU from 2002 had almost 20GB/sec memory bandwidth. 

Half of HD4770's performance is not a next generation console and this is the absolutely best case for Wii U's GPU. The rest of the specs are just minor details that do not change the conclusion that the GPU has to be less powerful than HD4770, a lot less. Also, it's pure physics. You cannot make an R700 GPU that used 40-50W of power that's as powerful as an 80W one. By extension of Wii U's maximum power consumption, no R700 GPU inside of it made on 40nm process can ever even touch HD4770.