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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Anyone who thinks the 64/cube failed due to 1st party software is...

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RazorDragon on 02 February 2013
happydolphin said:
RazorDragon said:
Immortal said:
This is one of those times when the lack of a definition for "casual" really hurts. Not casual, but Pokemon? Not casual, but NSMB? Not casual, but Wii Sports?

If those games aren't casual, I don't know what is.

His general point is also wrong, though. SMB4 would've outsold SM64. Some of the decline is attributable to third parties, but the rest is because Nintendo lowered its own standards as well. Probably mostly third parties, though.


Pokemon is casual? Sorry man, that took all the credibility out of your post.

It's come to the point where anything that has mass-success is a casual game.

That's what I'm trying to show people, that the premice is completely off-line with reality.


Absolutely. But i think there's more to it than just mass-success. It's also about how accessible the game is to new players. That's one of the reasons i don't agree with this casual/hardcore denomination for games. In that context, it would be much easier AND correct if the game was simply referred as easy or hard.

 

Immortal said:
RazorDragon said:


And that's the point. How can a game be "casual" if you spent more than 4000 hours of your life playing it? It's because the customers are possibly children? I finished Shinobi on the Master System when i was a child. So, it's also a casual game? Now, i absolutely agree that of definition for the word casual in gaming hurts the context. There's absolutely no sense, IMO, for a game to be called casual when i believe that's actually up to the player. I mean, games shouldn't be rated as casual or hardcore, because games don't play themselves. You can be hardcore in Wii Sports, for example, if you lose a great time of your life trying to master everything about the specific game, just as you can be casual playing a FPS, if you just finish it as fast as you can and move on to the next game. 


I know that's your point. Just because I spend that much time on a game, though, doesn't mean anyone else does. (For the record, Nintendo Channel says I've spent >1000 hours on Wii Sports. Yes, the original.)

And I actually completely agree with what you're saying right now. There's no real definition for casual and core if we judge this by the games themselves. Which makes this article stupid and meaningless. Which is my point.

Sure, i understand your point too. And, like i said to happydolphin, in that context, it would be much easier and correct if the game was simply referred as easy or hard.



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TheBardsSong on 02 February 2013

I think the fact N64 and GC were successful on mostly 1st party titles is impressive. I honestly doubt any other publisher could pull that one off.



freebs2 on 02 February 2013
milkyjoe said:
The N64 was saved from being an abject failure because of some of the best games Nintendo have ever made.

The Gamecube was an abject failure because Nintendo made some of the worst games they've ever made.

Imo, on Gamecube they made 2 of their best games ever: Smash Bros Melee and Metroid Prime. But they went wrong with Mario, their most important IP.

That said, the gamecube had a lot of other problems as well, starting from probably the worst marketing ever made for a console. It has arrived too late, it was targeting hardcore gamers but it looked like a toy, a lot of N64 owners were alienated due to the lack of Rare and FPS games.etc.



Player2 on 02 February 2013

Saying that they failed primarily due to 1st party software is going too far, but before I leave home to go to the supermarket I want to ask something:

Which Nintendo home console had the weakest first party software lineup?



ps3-sales! on 02 February 2013

Everyone knows they both failed because people didn't want to labeled as owning "consoles for squares"

The gamecube had some of the best games I played last gen and I might have loved it more than my Ps2. However I was young so I think the games on Ps2 I missed due to my age affected that decision. But still, SUPER MARIO SUNSHINEEEE



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  • Ps4

 

Currently playing: Witcher 3, Walking Dead S1/2, GTA5, Dying Light, Tomb Raider Remaster, MGS Ground Zeros

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wfz on 02 February 2013
CGI-Quality said:

Come to think of it, the system was angled at a more casual crowd (which paid off).


I know you did not mean what you just said. I know it. But your post still made me get confused and turn my head.

 

i haven't really heard many people argue that the N64/GC failed due to first party support. From what I've seen, most people tend to agree that first party support was the only reason they didn't fail harder. The only ones who complain about the first party support are third parties who can't make good games.



the_dengle on 02 February 2013
happydolphin said:

Look at the game boy line, did that survive due to casual titles? No, that mostly survived thanks to Pokemon.

This is the most incorrect thing I have ever read.



oniyide on 02 February 2013
RazorDragon said:
Immortal said:
RazorDragon said:
Immortal said:
This is one of those times when the lack of a definition for "casual" really hurts. Not casual, but Pokemon? Not casual, but NSMB? Not casual, but Wii Sports?

If those games aren't casual, I don't know what is.

His general point is also wrong, though. SMB4 would've outsold SM64. Some of the decline is attributable to third parties, but the rest is because Nintendo lowered its own standards as well. Probably mostly third parties, though.


Pokemon is casual? Sorry man, that took all the credibility out of your post.


I've spent ~400 hours on BW, ~1500 hours on Gen IV games and about ~2000 hours each on each of the previous generation's main games. I've played through all the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon, Pokemon Ranger and Pokemon Pinball games dozens of times. Each. And I've at least tried out just about every Pokemon game there is. I'm sorry, but I have just about as much authority as it gets to speak about Pokemon.

And, yes, it's casual. Especially in the context of the Gameboy line, because pretty much all its customers at that point were children. Still are, really.


And that's the point. How can a game be "casual" if you spent more than 4000 hours of your life playing it? It's because the customers are possibly children? I finished Shinobi on the Master System when i was a child. So, it's also a casual game? Now, i absolutely agree that of definition for the word casual in gaming hurts the context. There's absolutely no sense, IMO, for a game to be called casual when i believe that's actually up to the player. I mean, games shouldn't be rated as casual or hardcore, because games don't play themselves. You can be hardcore in Wii Sports, for example, if you lose a great time of your life trying to master everything about the specific game, just as you can be casual playing a FPS, if you just finish it as fast as you can and move on to the next game. 


Ive been here for awhile and ive argued this point, but its pretty much been a waste of time. I will say this, there are some games made with the intention of being played "casually" IE stuff like Just Dance, doubt someone is going to log dozens of hours a week play that game as say someone playing Skyrim logs hours upon hours playing. Not saying you couldnt do that with just dance but it is far less likely, wouldnt call it a casual game.



MARCUSDJACKSON on 02 February 2013

GC failed because of it's image. N64 i can't say. N64 kept me busy, with Killer instinct gold, 007 Goldeneye, SSB, WWE No Mercy, and Conkurs bad furday.



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oniyide on 02 February 2013
Player2 said:

Saying that they failed primarily due to 1st party software is going too far, but before I leave home to go to the supermarket I want to ask something:

Which Nintendo home console had the weakest first party software lineup?


im going to get hate for saying this, but i dont care. For me it was the Wii, followed closely by GC. IMHO pratically every follow up on WIi was worst than the one before or a let down. Except the Galaxies