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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Official Legend of Zelda Thread: Echoes of Wisdom Out Now

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Are you planning to buy Echoes of Wisdom?

I already pre-ordered 5 38.46%
 
Picking it up soon 4 30.77%
 
Waiting for a sale 2 15.38%
 
No, it's not for me 2 15.38%
 
Total:13
zeldaring on 10 August 2023
Kakadu18 said:
SvennoJ said:

These are my ideas about the UI. Dunno what you guys think. The Reddit sub has long turned into an echo chamber which every claiming the UI is pretty much perfect and build for the Switch lol.


Jump is opposite of sprint instead of mapped to A.

A is both for unnecessary looting and to activate sages, Yonobo walking in front can either end in a laugh or blowing yourself up. An auto pickup option would reduce the issues. Map pick up to X for actually picking up items.

Link automatically starting to climb walls and trees has killed me plenty times. Let climb be a button just like climb down to initiate climbing yourself. Map it to A which is already used for climb down, but should also be for jump and to initiate climbing.

The paraglider/falling has 4 states, It would be more consistent to have A jump, X para glider, A to sky dive, hold A to speed up sky dive, B to cancel and fall (as is now)

The power menu should be mapped to RB to fix the associative mapping and LB for throwing. The power menu should be configurable and also have the sages mapped to it. An easy solution is to have two wheels pop up, one for each control stick. Sages wheel on the right, an RB tap will still activate the last used power.

Skip cut scenes should be the same button, not a mix of B, +, X+.

The font needs to be scale-able. I can't read half the UI from the couch, also due to the poor contrast in the game.

Ultra-hand rotation needs a third axis and option to always be aligned with the object. So the rotation always works the same on each object, yaw, pitch and roll. Since you're holding down RB to rotate, use Y and A for roll (left/right is yaw, up/down is pitch)

Let me turn off snap to grid so I can attach things the way I want. It's odd to have the Hudson sign mechanic constantly getting messed up by snap to grid while building, making just using a hover stone to best solution or make an ugly mess. Hold down ZR as well while rotating for sub 45 degree rotation, fine movement.

Let me select the next Zonai build item to put directly into my ultra-hand instead of selecting up to 5 to randomly throw on the ground.

Let me directly fuse things to my sword/shield from the menu instead of first having to drop it on the ground.

Let me sort the armor menu on most used with favorited sets to switch quickly.

Add an option to auto fuse the last used item to arrows to increase the flow of combat.

Turn the quick select menu into a cross bar selector. 8 columns sorted on type (general attack, ice/water/fire/shock, utility, cooked food, zonai) which each column their own individual sort. So you can sort utility items (bombs, puffs, muddles etc) on most used while having attack items sorted on attack power and food either sorted by type or hearts.

Each column also remembers last used item and column, so pressing up you can quickly re-eat the last consumed dish (if more availble), or quickly select the last used Zonai item which then appears in your hand with ultra-hand activated ready to add to your build. Selecting an item also pops up the prompt to either fuse it to your weapon or shield, which should ask the question if you want to replace the already fused item if there is one.

Down arrow should always select shields, left arrow bows, right arrow swords. Whistle can be mapped to the secondary power wheel with the sage abilities.

Cooking should have the ability to cook in bulk, select a recipe and how many you want to make.

Not all of it is bad, but there is so much room for improvement. And my biggest gripes are still using the 'wrong' button for throw and power select. After 150 hours I still start throwing my weapon when wanting to use a power and still open the power wheel when wanting to throw a puff shroom. I always end up with the bow selector when I want to follow up shooting with melee. Got to first pull your sword out to switch the selector. Then first draw the bow again before being able to change the bow. Rotating while building is always a pita while snap often gets it wrong if the build is not lying flat enough.

It's odd that most earlier Zelda games let you map functions to buttons yet BotW abandoned that customization.

That is 100% on you. After 150 hours there should be enough mustle memory to be able to not constantly press the wrong buttons. I had a similar issue, often mixing up the L and R buttons, for the first 15-20 at max.

Many people have the same issues the control scheme just sucks and overly complicated. 



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Veknoid_Outcast on 10 August 2023

Just over an hour left to collect the icon elements in Wave 1 of TotK! This wave expires at 6pm PT.



SvennoJ on 10 August 2023
Kakadu18 said:

That is 100% on you. After 150 hours there should be enough mustle memory to be able to not constantly press the wrong buttons. I had a similar issue, often mixing up the L and R buttons, for the first 15-20 hours at max.

Actually no, it's on Nintendo, see the in depth explanation here at 36 minutes
https://youtu.be/a4ldmt3eU2I?t=2197
But I'm glad you got used to it, my brain simply isn't wired that way. The problem is made worse by rotate being on RB, further associating using ultra-hand with the RB button.



CaptainExplosion on 10 August 2023
Veknoid_Outcast said:

Apparently Nintendo has revealed a list of new patents, with a whopping 31 related to Tears of the Kingdom. I'm confused about the legitimacy of patenting game mechanics in general, and skeptical about the unique qualities of some of these Zelda mechanics, many of which seem to be common features in video games.

Maybe someone with more knowledge of video game patents can weigh in on how common and how valid this practice is.

Source #1

Source #2

Seriously, what the fuck, Nintendo? What are they trying to do, fuck up the gaming industry as much as Atari did in the early 80s?



HoloDust on 11 August 2023
Kakadu18 said:
HoloDust said:

Just Nintendo being Nintendo, and broken patent laws being what they are, broken and nonsensical - how on Earth can you patent a thing like character moving at the same speed as a platform beneath him, when it's been used in games forever?

The patent is about how the object's speed is calculated relative to the character's speed.

You mean, how basic elementary school physics work?



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CaptainExplosion on 11 August 2023
HoloDust said:
Kakadu18 said:

The patent is about how the object's speed is calculated relative to the character's speed.

You mean, how basic elementary school physics work?

This is worse than whoever demands royalties for showing the Hollywood sign in movies or shows. -_-



Veknoid_Outcast on 17 August 2023

Less than 30 minutes to get the current wave of TotK icon elements!



zeldaring on 18 August 2023

Finally finished it. My feelings it was a great game with so Many flaws. Cooking and fusing gets so tiresome. Not having a descent controlling horse in this game is sad. It definitely needs a dark souls combat system with flask, get rid of the breakable weapons or make then them brake every 3-5 hours of combat.

Really mixing some of the old style zelda with this and cutting the world size in half would be amazing. Exploring of foot doesn't feel fun and really needs a fast moving horse cause all you wanna do glide. Looking forward to what they do next, and if it's gonna be like this hopefully they refine the shit out of it cause like DF said its a sloppy ass hamburger that tastes good.

Last edited by zeldaring - on 18 August 2023

SvennoJ on 18 August 2023

I'm still going, but I switched my play style to using Zelda's horse to get around. Yes the horse doesn't control well, but it's fast and auto follows roads. Traveling on land simply feels so much more immersive, while flying makes everything feel small and trivial. Now I use the roads to get close to where I need to go, get off, do whatever I came there to do and get back to the horse to continue. I'm doing all the stable quests currently and Misko's treasure hunts, which is a lot of back tracking but combining stuff works and going from stable to stable by horse is great. I have Zelda's horse permanently equipped with the towing harness which comes in handy for all those "I need to reach my friend" Koroks. Glue them to the towing harness for an quick delivery.

It's not all great, horses are banned from Gerudo and you can't repair the bridge by Dueling peaks stable nor will the horse get onto any makeshift bridge or raft to get across the river. So you basically have to abandon the horse and pick it back up at the next stable. You also can't pick up anything from the horse, can't zoom in, can't use the camera, so it's really not a convenient way to play the game when you're still new to the map and/or gathering resources. Also you can't just shoot from the horse, have to jump of first. Horses really are only good as an alternative to fast travel (and experiencing the scale of the word)

I have no idea where Nintendo can go next from here. The ability to simply fly anywhere has a huge impact on how you can play the game and experience the world. Recall and Ascend also trivialize a lot of the game play and building death bots just doesn't feel like it belongs at all. The developers realized this by adding proving ground shrines and have the new enemies (Gleocks, Flux Constructs) go way up in the air to provide some challenge. Or rather a way to shoehorn recall into combat. As for the sages. that's a big fail, they're permanently dismissed.

The fuse system is still great however. Cannon on a sword is perfect for breaking all those crumble walls, fan on a shield much easier than waving a korok leave. Flame emitter on a shield much easier than using flint or fire arrows to start fires. And thanks to puff shrooms, muddle buds, bomb flowers, bullet time and homing arrows there's always an easy way out of combat.

Since starting to travel by horse I've restored Lurelin Village, helped out Hateno school and can now grow my own crops, build a house and abandoned it due to 15 items limit, did 11 of the 12 Find the princess quests, half the stable picture quests, town quests in Gerudo and Goron city, lots of Hudson signs and "help me reach my friend" along the way, some cool caves explored (inside Satori mountain is a bit more interesting cave layout) and been collecting more of Misko's treasures. Nothing outstanding, but nothing bad either.

Despite the age of the Switch, it can still produce some amazing lighting

Lurelin village feels so nice after restoring it.

Anyone have a clue btw what this could be for (down in Satori Mountain)

It looks like something but I forgot to do the obvious, take a peak with Ascend to see if anything is hiding above. The downfall of avoiding Ascend for travel.

One NPC ticked me off. Spilled all her goods (toys from a wagon) and wanted me to put them all back within 90 seconds for a deposit of 20 rupees. Wth lady. I offer to help, take time out of my busy schedule to save Hyrule and you make me pay first and set a stupid time limit after I pay... That only highlighted how much slower using ultra-hand is compared to just running, picking up and running back, however then throwing is too imprecise to get the cart loaded. Meanwhile turning the camera and walking with ultra-hand is too slow to make the silly time limit. No clue what this was for, it's not a quest and only gives you one shot at it (at least you get the deposit back) So I set up a stake with flame emitter next to her, go fry in hell lady. (Turns out those straw hats contain a force field that repels fire)


Quests often show the limitations of Ultra-hand. Another has you shining a beam of sunlight at an angle at a target yet you can only turn the mirror 45 degrees. So while you quickly figure out what the game wants you to do, the 'execution delay' is ridiculous. Trying to find the right ledge, height and distance plus flat enough ground to stand on to use ultra-hand, so the 45 degree angle hits while holding the mirror at the maximum range of ultra-hand. I hope Nintendo refines the system a whole lot if they decide to continue with it. Hudson signs the same, just use a hover stone instead of fighting the angle and snap system.

Last edited by SvennoJ - on 18 August 2023

zeldaring on 18 August 2023
SvennoJ said:

I'm still going, but I switched my play style to using Zelda's horse to get around. Yes the horse doesn't control well, but it's fast and auto follows roads. Traveling on land simply feels so much more immersive, while flying makes everything feel small and trivial. Now I use the roads to get close to where I need to go, get off, do whatever I came there to do and get back to the horse to continue. I'm doing all the stable quests currently and Misko's treasure hunts, which is a lot of back tracking but combining stuff works and going from stable to stable by horse is great. I have Zelda's horse permanently equipped with the towing harness which comes in handy for all those "I need to reach my friend" Koroks. Glue them to the towing harness for an quick delivery.

It's not all great, horses are banned from Gerudo and you can't repair the bridge by Dueling peaks stable nor will the horse get onto any makeshift bridge or raft to get across the river. So you basically have to abandon the horse and pick it back up at the next stable. You also can't pick up anything from the horse, can't zoom in, can't use the camera, so it's really not a convenient way to play the game when you're still new to the map and/or gathering resources. Also you can't just shoot from the horse, have to jump of first. Horses really are only good as an alternative to fast travel (and experiencing the scale of the word)

I have no idea where Nintendo can go next from here. The ability to simply fly anywhere has a huge impact on how you can play the game and experience the world. Recall and Ascend also trivialize a lot of the game play and building death bots just doesn't feel like it belongs at all. The developers realized this by adding proving ground shrines and have the new enemies (Gleocks, Flux Constructs) go way up in the air to provide some challenge. Or rather a way to shoehorn recall into combat. As for the sages. that's a big fail, they're permanently dismissed.

The fuse system is still great however. Cannon on a sword is perfect for breaking all those crumble walls, fan on a shield much easier than waving a korok leave. Flame emitter on a shield much easier than using flint or fire arrows to start fires. And thanks to puff shrooms, muddle buds, bomb flowers, bullet time and homing arrows there's always an easy way out of combat.

Since starting to travel by horse I've restored Lurelin Village, helped out Hateno school and can now grow my own crops, build a house and abandoned it due to 15 items limit, did 11 of the 12 Find the princess quests, half the stable picture quests, town quests in Gerudo and Goron city, lots of Hudson signs and "help me reach my friend" along the way, some cool caves explored (inside Satori mountain is a bit more interesting cave layout) and been collecting more of Misko's treasures. Nothing outstanding, but nothing bad either.

Despite the age of the Switch, it can still produce some amazing lighting

Lurelin village feels so nice after restoring it.

Anyone have a clue btw what this could be for (down in Satori Mountain)

It looks like something but I forgot to do the obvious, take a peak with Ascend to see if anything is hiding above. The downfall of avoiding Ascend for travel.

One NPC ticked me off. Spilled all her goods (toys from a wagon) and wanted me to put them all back within 90 seconds for a deposit of 20 rupees. Wth lady. I offer to help, take time out of my busy schedule to save Hyrule and you make me pay first and set a stupid time limit after I pay... That only highlighted how much slower using ultra-hand is compared to just running, picking up and running back, however then throwing is too imprecise to get the cart loaded. Meanwhile turning the camera and walking with ultra-hand is too slow to make the silly time limit. No clue what this was for, it's not a quest and only gives you one shot at it (at least you get the deposit back) So I set up a stake with flame emitter next to her, go fry in hell lady. (Turns out those straw hats contain a force field that repels fire)


Quests often show the limitations of Ultra-hand. Another has you shining a beam of sunlight at an angle at a target yet you can only turn the mirror 45 degrees. So while you quickly figure out what the game wants you to do, the 'execution delay' is ridiculous. Trying to find the right ledge, height and distance plus flat enough ground to stand on to use ultra-hand, so the 45 degree angle hits while holding the mirror at the maximum range of ultra-hand. I hope Nintendo refines the system a whole lot if they decide to continue with it. Hudson signs the same, just use a hover stone instead of fighting the angle and snap system.

I enjoy the gliding, it's just it needs a much better option on foot like a great horse. I know you wanna explore every single inch of the game like  explorer but for the majority it's probably the best part of the game lol.

As for the fusion and cooking its just way to many freaking things to test it's just get tiresome and looking through 100s of items all the time. like when i fuse the bow and have to scroll through 100s of items to find what i wanna fuse it with, it's just ruined the flow of gameplay and combat for me, same with breakable weapons. The champions abilities are a pain in the ass to use as well, yea that's a big fail.