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Forums - Gaming - Difference between 60hz and 120hz?

platformmaster918 said:

so you're absolutely sure that there won't be a difference between 60hz and 120hz for gaming because that's obviously the main reason I'm buying it.  Some people on here have said otherwise but if you're confident I'm inclined to believe it because looking at the fact that most games only go 30fps this gen tends to support your argument.  I also don't like the soap opera effect as I've seen some TVs that had it and it really looked weird.

Similarly to that soap opera effect games can look smoother/sharper in motion in fake 120Hz even if they are made in 30fps, yet that is bought through more of a disconnect between your button presses and their visualization on screen, which I personally can't live with. A good TV set will be able to achieve similar picture clarity in 60Hz mode anyway.

Btw, if the games aren't at a locked 30fps the dipping/increasing frame rate looks really ridiculous in that fake 120Hz.



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platformmaster918 said:
Mummelmann said:
The difference is that one is largely a gimmick, for now at least.

so any game at 60fps or below will not be effected (ie all of them for now and most likely next gen)?


120hz (and up) is mostly for use on PC monitors and for extra effects and filters that the vast majority of media doesn't support at all or doesn't do very well (such as 3D). Higher framerates will be a great help for continued increase of effects and filters in the future and especially in cinemas and on 4K TV's with medium-to close viewing distance but, for now at least, there is little point in shelling out extra for a the highest hz rate possible, better to wait for TV sets which has proper first hand integration of features and, more importantly; media that actually uses the extra rendering capacity and features properly.

For now, a very high hz count on TV sets goes towards as much use as upscaling DVD's on Blu-ray players.

Any 7th generation game is likely to be minimally effected or none at all by your TV's hz count being above 100.



Lafiel said:
platformmaster918 said:

so you're absolutely sure that there won't be a difference between 60hz and 120hz for gaming because that's obviously the main reason I'm buying it.  Some people on here have said otherwise but if you're confident I'm inclined to believe it because looking at the fact that most games only go 30fps this gen tends to support your argument.  I also don't like the soap opera effect as I've seen some TVs that had it and it really looked weird.

Similarly to that soap opera effect games can look smoother/sharper in motion in fake 120Hz even if they are made in 30fps, yet that is bought through more of a disconnect between your button presses and their visualization on screen, which I personally can't live with. A good TV set will be able to achieve similar picture clarity in 60Hz mode anyway.

Btw, if the games aren't at a locked 30fps the dipping/increasing frame rate looks really ridiculous in that fake 120Hz.

see this is the problem I'm not sure what will look better or worse.  For instance this TV seems like it is great and gets a lot of great reviews

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666465689#specifications

yet if I want I can upgrade to a 120hz or 240hz without too much increase in price.  I found a Samsung that lists straight 120hz and I think that motionflow goes 120=60hz but will it have the soapy effect that I've seen on Vizios is the problem.  (wouldn't buy from Sony but on Amazon they're under $500




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120Hz is only useful for watching sports, documentaries and PC monitors really.

Movies were intended to be watched at 24Hz, I've seen movies in 120 and 240Hz and they don't look right to me. You could watch TV shows in 120Hz, but just like with films, it doesn't look right to me. As for gaming, motion processing gives you input lag, many people on AVForums talked me out of buying a 120Hz TV because I'll mostly be using it for gaming.



platformmaster918 said:

see this is the problem I'm not sure what will look better or worse.  For instance this TV seems like it is great and gets a lot of great reviews

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666465689#specifications

yet if I want I can upgrade to a 120hz or 240hz without too much increase in price.  I found a Samsung that lists straight 120hz and I think that motionflow goes 120=60hz but will it have the soapy effect that I've seen on Vizios is the problem.  (wouldn't buy from Sony but on Amazon they're under $500

I just had a look around the internet and that pretty much confirmed to me that no TV actually has 120Hz input. HDMI1.4a probably is capable of transmitting such a signal, but it's only specified for up to 75Hz frequency at most.

So there are no straight up 120Hz+ TVs, it's all post-processing. The lower end the TV you go for is, the slower will be it's processors and the higher the latency these additional effects introduce. Still a great display will look great even without all that crap on.



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Lafiel said:
platformmaster918 said:

see this is the problem I'm not sure what will look better or worse.  For instance this TV seems like it is great and gets a lot of great reviews

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666465689#specifications

yet if I want I can upgrade to a 120hz or 240hz without too much increase in price.  I found a Samsung that lists straight 120hz and I think that motionflow goes 120=60hz but will it have the soapy effect that I've seen on Vizios is the problem.  (wouldn't buy from Sony but on Amazon they're under $500

I just had a look around the internet and that pretty much confirmed to me that no TV actually has 120Hz input. HDMI1.4a probably is capable of transmitting such a signal, but it's only specified for up to 75Hz frequency at most.

So there are no straight up 120Hz+ TVs, it's all post-processing. The lower end the TV you go for is, the slower will be it's processors and the higher the latency these additional effects introduce. Still a great display will look great even without all that crap on.

I see.  I think I'll go for that set as it's the most affordable and seems to get the best reviews for its price.  Thanks for all the analysis and insight.




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CGI-Quality said:
brendude13 said:
120Hz is only useful for watching sports, documentaries and PC monitors really.

Movies were intended to be watched at 24Hz, I've seen movies in 120 and 240Hz and they don't look right to me. You could watch TV shows in 120Hz, but just like with films, it doesn't look right to me. As for gaming, motion processing gives you input lag, many people on AVForums talked me out of buying a 120Hz TV because I'll mostly be using it for gaming.

Not sure what you heard, but the extra Hz are especially prominent in gaming, particularly FPS titles. My take: I would have gone for it, no buggy blur and far smoother gaming.

I meant console gaming only, I included PC monitors as an advantage for 120Hz because PCs can actually output 120Hz. Get a 120Hz PC monitor for gaming and you're good to go. 120Hz PC monitors have a huge premium price tag on them though, but looking at the rigs you've built, I guess that's no problem for you.



First of all, none of the TVs sold in stores are "true" 120 hz. This is because none of them are able to accept 120 hz signal. Instead they take a 60 hz signal and inject frames in to it by refreshing it 120 times.
Rule of thumb - if it's using HDMI it's not able to take 120 hz as for 120 hz you need Dual Link DVI.

As far as true 120 hz displays, they are absolutely awesome for gaming if your rig can support them (PC only for the time being). The reduce the input and visual lag by a half compared to 60 hz input displays (1/120 seconds vs 1/60 second of input lag) and this is really noticeable.

As far as I see it, "faux" 120 hz TV's are a gimmick and waste of money. Get a regular 1080p quality display over a lower brand-model 120/240 hz one. Only LCD's use this technology in order to mask their bad pixel response time. (Plasma or DLP doesn't have or need "120 hz"). However if you can scoop up a real 120 hz monitor for your PC, this is worth investing in to.

Current king is the Asus VG278HE which can accept 144 hz singals
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/asus-vg278h-is-first-144-hz-monitor-gamers-rejoice



This is what you need to know:

TVs which are 120Hz or more don't accept 120Hz input, which only computers can output anyway. They create in between frames out of thin air through a process called motion interpolation. How does that look in practice? I think it looks great though not perfect when used in non-live action settings like video games or animation, but YMMV. It especially helps with smoothing out lower framerate games.

How does that actually WORK in practice? Unfortunately it renders many games less playable, since it introduces significant input lag. Though that also depends on the television, some add more, some less.

Monitors, on the other hand, which are rated 120-144Hz actually accept 120-144Hz as input, don't use motion interpolation and don't create input lag. But only a computer can output that kind of framerate.

 

Seems like disolitude beat me to it, lol.



LemonSlice said:

This is what you need to know:

TVs which are 120Hz or more don't accept 120Hz input, which only computers can output anyway. They create in between frames out of thin air through a process called motion interpolation. How does that look in practice? I think it looks great though not perfect when used in non-live action settings like video games or animation, but YMMV. It especially helps with smoothing out lower framerate games.

How does that actually WORK in practice? Unfortunately it renders many games less playable, since it introduces significant input lag. Though that also depends on the television, some add more, some less.

Monitors, on the other hand, which are rated 120-144Hz actually accept 120-144Hz as input, don't use motion interpolation and don't create input lag. But only a computer can output that kind of framerate.

 

Seems like disolitude beat me to it, lol.

lol, yes...but great post regadless! Between these 2 posts people will surely get the point.