Me too. But now Ni no Kuni is here, so I secede from this thread for now!

Mr. Khan, do you still live up in the northeast? Curious, because I wonder where you get a lot of opinions on the South from. That bit of background data would help me understand your point of view better here.

I don't buy the argument that smaller countries can't provide better lives. Texas is the 16th largest economy in the world, larger than the likes of Switzerland and Norway, yet Switzerland and Norway have better standards of living than Texas. Scale is certainly not everything.

I increasingly believe, living in a world that is increasingly polarized between opposite groups with their own sets of truths and morals and unyielding in their points of view, that every reasonable effort for secession and self-determination should be supported.

For me it's like the next step on a sort-of utilitarian progress of human political systems: from big authoritarian empires encompassing different cultures to small democracies based on nationality but where the strongest group still imposes their views, to even smaller groups of peoples sharing a similar mindset.

It must be noticed that more often than not these states as we know them today are basically the same authoritarian superstructures of old, only softer and lighter, as politicians representing the best interests of certain groups, and have their power coming from the so-called democratic vote, took over. They are still essentially a tool of aggression who doesn't represents its people, as some would like to believe, but actively feeds off these people for the furthering of its own interests, like an immense parasite, and the reasons governments are quick to oppose secession.

Win.

@OP. I believe that anti-secessionist sentiment comes from some kind of elevated belief that the country is worth more than individual freedom.

If people don't want to be part of the country and don't want to be in another country but want to retain their land, then they should have that right. But it's a greedy world and there are emperialists to worry about. They won't let that happen easily.

Some may consider certain lands theirs though they live in other zones of the Country proper. That's because they see the country proper as their heritage. That's understandable. However, their heritage is also the communion with other people who they may not be happy in the country. They need to respect the needs of their contemporaries.

Having said that, since hostilities can birth from secession, it could be a legitimate concern of some to want to control that threat before it births.

Pennsylvania.

And i do know it's better down there than the caricatures would lead us to believe, that the South has become less distinct due to Sunbelt migration and the general process of cultural osmosis, though i would posit that the proof is in the legislation as to what kind of ideas are floating around in political circles down there, as well as the elected officials, where you vote for folks like Rick Perry and Jan Brewer.

Edit: though i'll grant that we in PA voted for Tom Corbett (who is suing the NCAA *in protest* of the Sandusky Penalties for Penn State, just to placate Nittany Lions football fans and cover his own ass as a Penn State Trustee)

Oddly, i think I got a "cleaner" view of the modern south from watching King of The Hill, which showed suburban Texas as basically the same as the rest of America, just with a helluva lot more focus given to high school football.

Where do you draw the line if at all , if a state as the right to secede does it go further down to local level, and what constitutes a mandate more than 50% ? .
Another question from an Australian so forgive me if I've got it wrong , what would have happened if the attack on Ft Sumter hadn't occurred , would the north just have waited till something similar happened or would they have in the unlikely case that no attacks occurred , manufactured one?

I have no quarrel with the separation between church and state  , it just needs to be expanded to include  the separation of people from the state .

I appreciate the pretty honest response. I would say you don't really know what's going on down here (with such a large difference of cultures just across state lines), until you come and experience it for yourself.

If Quebec left Canada, Canada would look retarded. We would have a gap separating a good chunck of our land mass.

Also I think North America would have looked cooler if it was still a part of Russia. It gets annoying having USA as our only major boardering country.