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Forums - General - Was 911 an inside job?

 

Was it?

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Nirvana_Nut85 said:
dsgrue3 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary

It was obviously a jumbo plane

That website is a joke. From the website itself:

Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, the 6'2" Vietnam Veteran looked up, directly into the right engine of a 757 commercial airliner cresting the hilltop Navy Annex. It reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine. "Had I not hit the deck, the plane would have taken off my head."Source

Do you realize the type of winds produced by the engines? It's equivalent to a hurricane. As the plane flew "over" him he would have been blown backward voilently and suffer extreme injuries or death.

 

"I did see airplane seats and a corpse still strapped to one of the seats."–Capt. Jim Ingledue, Virginia Beach Fire Dept.

Plane obliterated and body intact and strapped to the seat? LMFAO

 

They seriously need to create a "Like" button on this site. Well done good sir!


Yet, dsgrue doesn't provide any evidence for his claims... all he does is say "that site is a joke" and I'm suppose to be convinced by that?

So what is your take on the guys testimony? That it was a paid actor by the US government? Okay, so 104 people involved in the conspiracy so far and all are peons... this operation is getting very convoluted



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Gribble said:
'Why would people that believe 9/11 was not a conspiracy specifically come out to claim it? That's like a group of scientists coming out to claim gravity is real, makes no sense. That website you linked had maybe 50 pilots on the members list.

50 pilots out of about 250 thousand commercial pilots in the US? What a concensus! Not to mention you still haven't presented any evidence of any of your claims, just called all the evidence I've linked you faked with no proof between this thread and the Sandy Hook one.'

OK, I've seen enough. Clearly it's impossible to discuss anything of merit here.

Still waiting on your amazing evidence that I've been blind to all these years. Still haven't been presented with any.



XBL Gamertag: ckmlb, PSN ID: ckmlb

Max King of the Wild said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:
dsgrue3 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary

It was obviously a jumbo plane

That website is a joke. From the website itself:

Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, the 6'2" Vietnam Veteran looked up, directly into the right engine of a 757 commercial airliner cresting the hilltop Navy Annex. It reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine. "Had I not hit the deck, the plane would have taken off my head."Source

Do you realize the type of winds produced by the engines? It's equivalent to a hurricane. As the plane flew "over" him he would have been blown backward voilently and suffer extreme injuries or death.

 

"I did see airplane seats and a corpse still strapped to one of the seats."–Capt. Jim Ingledue, Virginia Beach Fire Dept.

Plane obliterated and body intact and strapped to the seat? LMFAO

 

They seriously need to create a "Like" button on this site. Well done good sir!


Yet, dsgrue doesn't provide any evidence for his claims... all he does is say "that site is a joke" and I'm suppose to be convinced by that?

So what is your take on the guys testimony? That it was a paid actor by the US government? Okay, so 104 people involved in the conspiracy so far and all are peons... this operation is getting very convoluted

This huge conspiracy involving hundreds of people, killing thousands of people and not one leak from the government, not one person to tell the media for either feeling guilty or to make a buck, not one legitimate news channel or newspaper or magazine making the case, it's amazing how all powerful the US government is except they can't even cover up damn waterboarding or watergate scandal, but they can pull off the perfect operation coordinated fully and with not one person even anonymously leaking information out. Priceless.



XBL Gamertag: ckmlb, PSN ID: ckmlb

Ckmlb1 said:
Gribble said:
'Why would people that believe 9/11 was not a conspiracy specifically come out to claim it? That's like a group of scientists coming out to claim gravity is real, makes no sense. That website you linked had maybe 50 pilots on the members list.

50 pilots out of about 250 thousand commercial pilots in the US? What a concensus! Not to mention you still haven't presented any evidence of any of your claims, just called all the evidence I've linked you faked with no proof between this thread and the Sandy Hook one.'

OK, I've seen enough. Clearly it's impossible to discuss anything of merit here.

Still waiting on your amazing evidence that I've been blind to all these years. Still haven't been presented with any.


His personal stance is people saying there were multiple explosions and then equating those to bombs when hardly anyone says the word bomb and the only ones who do are saying "we think there was another bomb" yet they didn't see it... they are saying it because "the lobby was completely destroyed" after the plane flew into the building and they were evacuating.



Ckmlb1 said:
dsgrue3 said:
Ckmlb1 said:

 

My mistake. I apologize. You and Figlioni make similiarly weak, unsubstatiated arguments.

Still waiting for you to cite even 1 pilot that backs up your claim.

I've seen all of that evidence. I'm citing holes in the evidence.

Nope, haven't been claiming the parts were there prior. (Different thread, you couldn't debunk it there either slick)

You keep ignoring my points and bringing up things I never brought up. I don't believe this was a government conspiracy, I'm simply presenting the situations that cast doubt upon the official account.

Address these:

 

  • Your own claim that pilots confirm the official account
  • Amateur pilot who failed flight school performing precise maneuvers on a Boeing 757-200 (which he had never flown prior)
  • DNA of all but 1 victim from Flight 77 recovered despite the plane itself being incinerated by fire and force.
  • Cont'd - Body parts cited, but not photographed/revealed to public?
  • Black box not recording an altitude below 270 feet.

I'm not going to read through an entire website of information. If you're going to cite it, excellent but quote the information you wish to convey along with the site so I'm not on a wild goose chase.

 

 

Why would pilots that believe the official account come out to say so? You presented a site with about 50 pilots out of  about a quarter million that operate in the US thinking it's an inside job. That's about 0.02% of pilots or something. But apparently some have, probably cause they were tired of hearing about crazy theories:

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Giulio_Bernacchia, experienced pilot: 

In my opinion the official version of the fact is absolutely plausible, does not require exceptional circumstances, bending of any law of physics or superhuman capabilities. Like other (real pilots) have said, the manoeuvres required of the hijackers were within their (very limited) capabilities, they were performed without any degree of finesse and resulted in damage to the targets only after desperate overmanoeuvring of the planes. The hijackers took advantage of anything that might make their job easier, and decided not to rely on their low piloting skills. It is misleading to make people believe that the hijackers HAD to possess superior pilot skills to do what they did.

About Hani Hanjour, the one you claim could not possibly have been the pilot of the flight 77 into the Pentagon (with more pilot testimony): 

"Impossible"? "No pilot will claim...?" Well, we did not have any difficulty finding pilots who disagreed. Ronald D. Bull, a retired United Airlines pilot, in Jupiter, Florida, told The New American, "It's not that difficult, and certainly not impossible," noting that it's much easier to crash intentionally into a target than to make a controlled landing. "If you're doing a suicide run, like these guys were doing, you'd just keep the nose down and push like the devil," says Capt. Bull, who flew 727s, 747s, 757s, and 767s for many years, internationally and domestically, including into the Washington, D.C., airports.

George Williams of Waxhaw, North Carolina, piloted 707s, 727s, DC-10s, and 747s for Northwest Airlines for 38 years. "I don't see any merit to those arguments whatsoever," Capt. Williams told us. "The Pentagon is a pretty big target and I'd say hitting it was a fairly easy thing to do."

According to 9/11 "investigator" Dick Eastman, whose wild theories are posted on the American Patriot Friends Network and many other Internet sites, Flight 77 was part of an elaborate deception in which a remote-controlled F-16 "killer jet" actually hit the Pentagon, while the 757 swooped over the Pentagon and landed at Reagan National Airport! "With its engines off," says Eastman, Flight 77 silently "coasted" in to the airport and blended in with other air traffic. "There would be few people to see Flight 77 come through, and those who did would doubtless assume that it was yet another routine flight over Reagan National," he claims.

"That's so far-fetched it's beyond ludicrous," says Capt. Williams. "I've flown into Reagan [National Airport] hundreds of times and you can't just sneak in and 'blend in' without air traffic controllers knowing about it and without other pilots and witnesses noticing."

Besides, as Capt. Ron Bull points out, the Eastman scenario would require piloting skills far beyond what it would take to hit the Pentagon. "I've flown into Reagan National many times and my first trip in a 757 was no picnic," he says. "I had to really work at it, and that was after 25 years of experience flying big jets. Any scenario that has the 757 [Flight 77] taking a flight path over the Pentagon and landing at National unobserved is proposing something that is far more difficult � and far more difficult to believe � than flying the plane into the Pentagon. It's just not credible."

All from here: http://web.archive.org/web/20050422030553/http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/article_1253.shtml

And more:

As I've explained in at least one prior column, Hani Hanjour's flying was hardly the show-quality demonstration often described. It was exceptional only in its recklessness. If anything, his loops and turns and spirals above the nation's capital revealed him to be exactly the shitty pilot he by all accounts was. To hit the Pentagon squarely he needed only a bit of luck, and he got it, possibly with help from the 757's autopilot. Striking a stationary object -- even a large one like the Pentagon -- at high speed and from a steep angle is very difficult. To make the job easier, he came in obliquely, tearing down light poles as he roared across the Pentagon's lawn.

It's true there's only a vestigial similarity between the cockpit of a light trainer and the flight deck of a Boeing. To put it mildly, the attackers, as private pilots, were completely out of their league. However, they were not setting out to perform single-engine missed approaches or Category 3 instrument landings with a failed hydraulic system. For good measure, at least two of the terrorist pilots had rented simulator time in jet aircraft, but striking the Pentagon, or navigating along the Hudson River to Manhattan on a cloudless morning, with the sole intention of steering head-on into a building, did not require a mastery of airmanship. The perpetrators had purchased manuals and videos describing the flight management systems of the 757/767, and as any desktop simulator enthusiast will tell you, elementary operation of the planes' navigational units and autopilots is chiefly an exercise in data programming. You can learn it at home. You won't be good, but you'll be good enough.

"They'd done their homework and they had what they needed," says a United Airlines pilot (name withheld on request), who has flown every model of Boeing from the 737 up. "Rudimentary knowledge and fearlessness."

"As everyone saw, their flying was sloppy and aggressive," says Michael (last name withheld), a pilot with several thousand hours in 757s and 767s. "Their skills and experience, or lack thereof, just weren't relevant."

"The hijackers required only the shallow understanding of the aircraft," agrees Ken Hertz, an airline pilot rated on the 757/767. "In much the same way that a person needn't be an experienced physician in order to perform CPR or set a broken bone."

That sentiment is echoed by Joe d'Eon, airline pilot and host of the "Fly With Me" podcast series. "It's the difference between a doctor and a butcher," says d'Eon.

From here: 

http://web.archive.org/web/20060916205041/http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2006/05/19/askthepilot186/index_np.html/

 

I absolutely agree that the official account is plausible but there are certain aspects that lead me to believe there is folly.

You cited about 5 pilots to 50. I'll allow them as direct rebuttal witnesses, despite only one addressing the low flying altitude with precision. (Luck + Autopilot). Fine. That's merely a plausibility not a confirmation of truth. Didn't address the following from above post:

  • DNA of all but 1 victim from Flight 77 recovered despite the plane itself being incinerated by fire and force.
  • Cont'd - Body parts cited, but not photographed/revealed to public?
  • Black box not recording an altitude below 270 feet.

 

Max King of the Wild said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:
dsgrue3 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary

It was obviously a jumbo plane

That website is a joke. From the website itself:

Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, the 6'2" Vietnam Veteran looked up, directly into the right engine of a 757 commercial airliner cresting the hilltop Navy Annex. It reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine. "Had I not hit the deck, the plane would have taken off my head."Source

Do you realize the type of winds produced by the engines? It's equivalent to a hurricane. As the plane flew "over" him he would have been blown backward voilently and suffer extreme injuries or death.

 

"I did see airplane seats and a corpse still strapped to one of the seats."–Capt. Jim Ingledue, Virginia Beach Fire Dept.

Plane obliterated and body intact and strapped to the seat? LMFAO

 

They seriously need to create a "Like" button on this site. Well done good sir!


Yet, dsgrue doesn't provide any evidence for his claims... all he does is say "that site is a joke" and I'm suppose to be convinced by that?

So what is your take on the guys testimony? That it was a paid actor by the US government? Okay, so 104 people involved in the conspiracy so far and all are peons... this operation is getting very convoluted

If you need evidence for the winds produced by a jet engine, seek a basic science course or youtube. Any of those will confirm this. If you're in front of a jet engine you will be sucked in, if you're behind it, pushed back with ferocity.

If you need evidence of the plane being obliterated, find any of the thousands of photographs - and then find a single one with a body part.

Good luck.



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I really hope thats a joke post... thats no better than "halo 4 is projecting the end of the world" videos



Ckmlb1 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:
dsgrue3 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary

It was obviously a jumbo plane

That website is a joke. From the website itself:

Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, the 6'2" Vietnam Veteran looked up, directly into the right engine of a 757 commercial airliner cresting the hilltop Navy Annex. It reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine. "Had I not hit the deck, the plane would have taken off my head."Source

Do you realize the type of winds produced by the engines? It's equivalent to a hurricane. As the plane flew "over" him he would have been blown backward voilently and suffer extreme injuries or death.

 

"I did see airplane seats and a corpse still strapped to one of the seats."–Capt. Jim Ingledue, Virginia Beach Fire Dept.

Plane obliterated and body intact and strapped to the seat? LMFAO

 

They seriously need to create a "Like" button on this site. Well done good sir!


Yet, dsgrue doesn't provide any evidence for his claims... all he does is say "that site is a joke" and I'm suppose to be convinced by that?

So what is your take on the guys testimony? That it was a paid actor by the US government? Okay, so 104 people involved in the conspiracy so far and all are peons... this operation is getting very convoluted

This huge conspiracy involving hundreds of people, killing thousands of people and not one leak from the government, not one person to tell the media for either feeling guilty or to make a buck, not one legitimate news channel or newspaper or magazine making the case, it's amazing how all powerful the US government is except they can't even cover up damn waterboarding or watergate scandal, but they can pull off the perfect operation coordinated fully and with not one person even anonymously leaking information out. Priceless.

But it WAS full of holes and there were plenty of people that told the truth. Why the hell do you think the experts are calling for a full investigation? It was a mess from start to finish. Impossible scenario, towers falling against the laws of physics, disappearing plane, box cutter armed terrorists successfully overpower three planes and not one pilot hit the panic button, planes going off course and nothing was done, terrorist picked the perfect day to do it (when every plane was on training missions), Pentagon hit by passenger plane and made a small hole, no marks in the grass, witnesses saying they heard explosions but no one seemed to listen to them, firemen saying there was molten metal, but no one seemed to listen to them, tower falling from fire that was hit by nothing, evidence immediately sent to China, claiming there was no contingency plan for such an attack when there was, denying there was high temperatures when there was... It just goes on and on. 

If you tried to make a movie out of the official report people would either laugh hysterically at it or walk out and ask for their money back.

For the last time, go here and watch these videos. Some are better than others but most of them have experts and footage to substantiate their claims:

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/watch-online/



dsgrue3 said:
Ckmlb1 said:
dsgrue3 said:
 

 

 

 

Max King of the Wild said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:
dsgrue3 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary

It was obviously a jumbo plane

That website is a joke. From the website itself:

Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, the 6'2" Vietnam Veteran looked up, directly into the right engine of a 757 commercial airliner cresting the hilltop Navy Annex. It reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine. "Had I not hit the deck, the plane would have taken off my head."Source

Do you realize the type of winds produced by the engines? It's equivalent to a hurricane. As the plane flew "over" him he would have been blown backward voilently and suffer extreme injuries or death.

 

"I did see airplane seats and a corpse still strapped to one of the seats."–Capt. Jim Ingledue, Virginia Beach Fire Dept.

Plane obliterated and body intact and strapped to the seat? LMFAO

 

They seriously need to create a "Like" button on this site. Well done good sir!


Yet, dsgrue doesn't provide any evidence for his claims... all he does is say "that site is a joke" and I'm suppose to be convinced by that?

So what is your take on the guys testimony? That it was a paid actor by the US government? Okay, so 104 people involved in the conspiracy so far and all are peons... this operation is getting very convoluted

If you need evidence for the winds produced by a jet engine, seek a basic science course or youtube. Any of those will confirm this. If you're in front of a jet engine you will be sucked in, if you're behind it, pushed back with ferocity.

If you need evidence of the plane being obliterated, find any of the thousands of photographs - and then find a single one with a body part.

Good luck.



Body parts were already provided earlier in this thread. The guy with the eric cartman avatar said "okay I don't believe this was the government anymore"

As for the jet engine. I highly doubt a basic science course provides material on aerodynamics and aeronautics. Anyway, evidence that this guy was standing in front of the engine? Oh wait... he never was.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ9uWsvR1l0

3 minutes in you see people standing in front of an engine at full thrust... hmmm i thought theyd be sucked in... I mean fuck the cameraman is right in front of it shooting it



Max King of the Wild said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ9uWsvR1l0

3 minutes in you see people standing in front of an engine at full thrust... hmmm i thought theyd be sucked in... I mean fuck the cameraman is right in front of it shooting it

'If these engines run at full thrust they'd start to rip up the runway' End quote.

LOL, I think that proves you entirely wrong. Did you see what it did to that car?! Imagine that being a man.

The guy would have died. He lied for certain.