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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo can never win with some people..

GuyDuke on 12 January 2013
S.T.A.G.E. said:

The problem is partially Nintendos fault and it can have many factors:

- Kiddy image: Microsofts statement that gamers grow up with Nintendo but will graduate to other consoles.
- Not being worried about western means of what makes a game next gen like powerful processors. Being behind hinders third parties in the west from wanting to make games for them on par with the competition.
- The advent of Xbox Live and the Playstation network for the competitive gamer.
- The third party drought that has been going onfor twenty years since the Playstation first arrived. Half the reason the N64 & Gamecube didnt sell that well.
- Nintendo has given up on going head to head with the competition, so they go around them. Even this gen, thats what they are doing.
- Nintendo wont drop the family image they hold onto. Nintendo is a traditionally family company and those who buy their product need to be realistic and realize that. They let the third parties and former second parties do the dirty games for them.
- They refuse to share the playing field with their gamers whom have grown up. No relatable first party for older players. If they want to get that, they have to go to third party. Where as with Sony you get both kiddy, teen and mature characters all in one breath. They refuse to grow up with the older gamers who grew with them. 


Nintendo holds a place in all of our hearts, but the problem with Nintendo is an internal one. They chose not to pander to the casuals and for that they will sell half of what the Wii Sold. They need to learn how to satisfy both markets from the start.

Well I don't have a problem playing "kiddy" games. It's just a shame that people overlook certain gems because they are too cool for school.



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DieAppleDie on 12 January 2013
kitler53 said:
Metallicube said:

Look at the foolish Bayonetta 2 fans, many of them are probably the same people that knocked Nintendo for not releasing games for them, and catering to the "casuals." So Nintendo publishes a game that caters directly to them, and what do they do? Whine and curse out Nintendo for some stupid reason, (despite the fact that the game would not exist without Nintendo). I will never understand the hardcore..


bolded the keyword.  they publish a game, as in one, uno, less than two. 

hardcore gamers buy a lot of games, like 15 or more a year.  not one a generation, not even just one a year.  so nintendo,.. not really catering to the core.  not when they miss out on GTA, bioshock, crysis 3, dark souls 2, dead space 3, watch dogs, metal gear, south park, and all those other games with a red X just this year...  oh, and let's not forget nintendo leaving out damn obvious OS features like cross game chat and a unified trophy system.

you're being foolish nintendo fan if you think nintedo has put any substance into courting the core.  so yeah, i agree with you... nintendo should go back to courting the casual exclusively.  i think it will still put them on the road to obsurity as that audience is even harder to please and just as likey to dimiss nintendo ...but at least nintendo has a chance.  but you are absolutly right about nintendo lacking the talent to make games or a system the core wants.

but don't try pull any this whiny "oh its everyone else's fault" BS.    the core are very demanding customers and nintendo's "let's the to bare minimum to get by" approach will not work.



i think your definition of core is not very accurate...



oniyide on 12 January 2013

Its been a awhile since ive seen this much whining from some fans on this site. oh boy.

Yes Ninty had a successful console in the Wii...so what. Its not like that translated into games for the system, unlike the prior gen leaders did. Who cares if you are "winning" when you are missing, the GTAs, SFs, half the CODs and the CODs you are getting run like crap, Elder Scrolls, pretty much any good 3rd party game. Not like i received anything for Ninty's success. IMHO I think the Ninty games are worst. Ill take a Perfect Dark or Conker over WiiWE any day of the week, but thats just me.

They catering to the core now? THey are trying ill give them that, but just because people arent kissing their ass with Wii U doesnt mean we hate it, (at least I dont) Im just not gonna buy a console to play games that I can already play for cheaper and in some cases the Wii U version even runs worst (AC3). So someone explain how that would make me a hater, if makes me have common sense is all. Ill wait till new 3D Mario, Zelda, Smash, to see whats up. And for a console 8 years after the first HD console, its not the graphical leap I was expecting or hoping for. So i will wait until their is a game on Wii U that I can say, "there is no way that can run on my PS3, period."

Ninty is going to a place i like, I like their console focus of games on 3DS, (screw Cooking mama adn the like) I like that they are trying harder with 3rd parties, and I like that they are taking online more seriously, i just wish they do all those faster, because they are behind about a whole gen.



S.T.A.G.E. on 12 January 2013
burninmylight said:
DanneSandin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

The problem is partially Nintendos fault and it can have many factors:

- Kiddy image: Microsofts statement that gamers grow up with Nintendo but will graduate to other consoles.
- Not being worried about western means of what makes a game next gen like powerful processors. Being behind hinders third parties in the west from wanting to make games for them on par with the competition.
- The advent of Xbox Live and the Playstation network for the competitive gamer.
- The third party drought that has been going onfor twenty years since the Playstation first arrived. Half the reason the N64 & Gamecube didnt sell that well.
- Nintendo has given up on going head to head with the competition, so they go around them. Even this gen, thats what they are doing.
- Nintendo wont drop the family image they hold onto. Nintendo is a traditionally family company and those who buy their product need to be realistic and realize that. They let the third parties and former second parties do the dirty games for them.
- They refuse to share the playing field with their gamers whom have grown up. No relatable first party for older players. If they want to get that, they have to go to third party. Where as with Sony you get both kiddy, teen and mature characters all in one breath. They refuse to grow up with the older gamers who grew with them. 


Nintendo holds a place in all of our hearts, but the problem with Nintendo is an internal one. They chose not to pander to the casuals and for that they will sell half of what the Wii Sold. They need to learn how to satisfy both markets from the start.

This is all very legit reasons and something Nintendo should look in to! Just look at Disney; THE most family oriented company of, like, all time! And still they're catering to all kinds of tastes. Nintendo should really try and learn from Disney.


I have no problem with Nintendo being protective of its and its desire to appeal to the family and amateur gamers. I just wish Nintendo would realize it can develop/publish "mature" games without taking any sort of hit to its family image whatsoever.It published Eternal Darkness, Geist and Perfect Dark without taking a single hit. Remember it also helped fund and marketConkers Bad Fur Day; that game practically leans on the M/AO rating!

I'm not crying for Nintendo to suddenly make Mario cap people in the head in first person or Link pick up Hylian hookers and use swear words, but I just wish it would pull more Bayo 2's where it swoops in and picks up a game we all want without worrying about blood and cleavage levels.


Thats the point, Nintendo hires third parties to make their second party titles to fill the mature gap in their gaming roster.



S.T.A.G.E. on 12 January 2013
DieAppleDie said:
burninmylight said:
Soundwave said:
melbye said:
Soundwave said:
BluGamer23 said:
Soundwave said:

They can't pander to casuals even if they wanted to anymore. I think they've lost touch with that crowd.

That crowd has gone to Apple, and casuals are fickle, they stay with one trend for a while and then move on.

They're the girl at the nightclub who's hot, but she's only up for a one night stand, then she's tired of you and moves on to the next exciting thing. Plus the guy she really wants isn't you but the big-wig doctor (Apple).

Nintendo is the one who's stuck at the nightclub the following Friday waiting for her to show up, but she's a no show.

So now they have to cater to us, the core players (the girl that'll always be there for them, lol).

Ever since Wii Music, they really have not be able to duplicate the initial success there of Brain Training/Nintendogs/Wii Sports/Wii Fit. They talked about that vitality sensor thing but it went no where.

Wii Fit in 2007/08 is really the last monstrous new casual hit they created, and that's more than 4 years ago now. Maybe it's coincidence but since the summer 2007 iPhone launch they have not created a big new hit casual gamer IP outside of Tomadachi Collection, which is really a Japan-only type thing. 

Dafuq? .. LOL  

so your are saying the hardcores are the boring ones that you pick up and becomes obsessed with you and already starts planning your marriage after the first date? uhm..........

I hate those types girls!.. no wonder hardcores are whiny obsessive little bitches!.. they cry when they dont get enough attention and its all about ME ME ME! .. LOL

(I think this anology is not working out well for you man.. LOL.. like i said you guys are fun!) =)


Hardcore gamers are loyal, they stick around, so yeah, they're the girl that will be there for you and wants a long term relationship. She's cute though. 

Casual gamers ... they're the party girl. She likes to have fun, she's hot, superficial, and gets hit on by a 100 guys every night at the bar. No way she'd ever settle down with you. 

Nintendo is the guy looking for a relationship though. They were banking on the party girl settling down and falling in love with them, and now are left abandoned by her, and the loyal girl is mad at him too, lol. 

It was great while it lasted for Nintendo (those profits in 2007-2009), but now I think they're coming back to reality. 


But after being rejected by the girl who wanted a relationship twice because he wasn't rich enough no wonder he goes after the party girl that actually gave him some attention even though it didn't last

To be fair though Nintendo honestly is the one that alienated core players with their own stupidity. Choosing cartridges over CDs basically was a big F-you to the entire third party community and consumers too ($70-$80 games?). And the GameCube was kinda half hearted in a lot of ways (Super Mario Sunshine? Where's Mario 64-2? Losing Rare entirely and replacing them with ... nothing?) too. 

Core players never abandoned Nintendo willingly IMO, they were forced to Sony in a lot of ways because of what Nintendo did by basically cutting Capcom, Konami, Squaresoft, Enix, and many others from the N64. 

-Really don't see where you got the GameCube being half-hearted  because of Super Mario Sunshine. Sure, it was based on a gimmick that came out of nowhere and felt awkard at times, but it's not like the game itself was neither fun nor original nor polished. Mario 64-2 sounds like it would be a lot more half-hearted.

-Look at what Rare has done post-Ninty vs. pre-Ninty. It sure seemed dumb at the time it sold Rare, but I think we'd all agree Nintendo knew what it was doing in the long run. And I think most of us would agree Retro is a worthy replacement to Rare. It just doesn't seem to have nearly as much freedom to do its own thing. Nintendo originally tried to replace Rare with Silicon Knights, but that didn't work out (I'd again say Nintendo came out on top in that decision too).



People didnt abandon Nintendo New users didnt embrace Nintendo thnx to Sonys moneyhatting




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DieAppleDie on 12 January 2013

Didnt Sony moneyhatt the whole industry with the PSX?
3rd parties said, cheap CDs plus free money?
Bye Nintendo



S.T.A.G.E. on 12 January 2013
DieAppleDie said:
Didnt Sony moneyhatt the whole industry with the PSX?
3rd parties said, cheap CDs plus free money?
Bye Nintendo


I Guess Sony is still moneyhatting Konami and Square Enix to keep them away from Nintendo. Sony has admitted that they do not pay for games. Sony and Microsoft HAVE paid for timed exclusivity in the past. Theres a big difference. Sony made their case and vision to third parties and third parties to this day still take their vision more seriously than Nintendo. Do you really believe is its Sony who has failed them or was it Nintendo?



aikohualda on 12 January 2013

hardcore gamers have all consoles...



 

Branko2166 on 12 January 2013
Metallicube said:

Some of these so called "hardcore" gamers make me laugh. They contradict themselves so much it's absurd. Basically no matter what Nintendo does, they condemn them.

- Nintendo has a massive sucessful console like the Wii: "Nintendo is selling out to teh stupid casualz! They don't make games for US anymore!!!1"

- Nintendo goes back to catering to the hardcore at the expense of greater sales (N64/Gamecube/Wii U): "Nintendo is doomed! Why buy hardcore games on Nintendo consoles when you can buy better ones on the HD consoles??

Look at the foolish Bayonetta 2 fans, many of them are probably the same people that knocked Nintendo for not releasing games for them, and catering to the "casuals." So Nintendo publishes a game that caters directly to them, and what do they do? Whine and curse out Nintendo for some stupid reason, (despite the fact that the game would not exist without Nintendo). I will never understand the hardcore..

This is why Nintendo might as well abandon trying to cater to hardcore and go back to the "selling out" of the Wii, because most of these people are never going to be satisfied no matter what they do. When they DO release games that appeal to them, they either ignore them, or whine and rant that it isn't on THEIR console. No, they won't actually BUY a Nintendo console to get the games they want when they do come, they just want to whine and criticize Nintendo when these games DON'T come. I have come to the conculsion that a very large portion of the "hardcore" out there have no intention on buying a Nintendo console REGARDLESS of what games are released on it. They just use the "lack of hardcore games" excuse as fuel for their trolling.

When they try to cater to this audience, their sales suffer anyway. If you're going to be hated regardless by these stubborn people, you might as well be hated while raking in extra $.

First thing you need to realise is that all consoles get criticised for a number of reasons. Sometimes that criticism is not justified and sometimes it is warranted. 

As a gamer I am not 100% unbiased however I  judge all consoles fairly but harshly. At the end of the day my main requirement for a console is that it has the games that cater to my likes and preferences.

In other words while I may have an attachment to a company I will only continue to support them if they give me what I want.

With regards to the Wii I will grant you that it was a very successful console in terms of generating profits for Nintendo but as for it being great for a core gamer I would think not especially for people that want to have access to all the great 3rd party games.

Understand that many people never grew up on Nintendo's consoles and don't share the same connection you may have. I for one grew up on Sega, switched to Sony and while I have remained with them since then I have also owned an X-BOX and have been a PC gamer throughout.

Now you have described the Wii U as Nintendo's attempt to go for the hardcore. While they may be marketing it that way I don't see that at all. I see a console into which a large part of the budget was invested into the Tablet controller thereby limiting the resources available for the rest of the console.

When I look at the Wii U I see it as Nintendo catching up with Microsoft and Sony but the problem is that they will both be releasing their successor consoles soon.

So in reality I'm not saying that the Wii U is bad as it will still undoubtedly have great Nintendo games but that we should have realistic expectations. Personally I wish that the Wii U was a huge leap in performance over the PS3/360 but unfortunately that isn't the case.

The bottom line is that all of us should demand and expect the best from all these companies and we should support as well as criticise.

So the next time you see constructive criticism don't assume that it's posted by someone that hates or is trolling Nintendo. Judge every post on its own merit. Like I said before, personally if I criticise I only do so because I always expect more and so should you. We should have more solidarity as gamers and not irrational animosity.  

 

 

 

 



 

 

Tarumon on 12 January 2013
aikohualda said:
hardcore gamers have all consoles...


That's right!  People make it sound like they are "investing" so the ONE console must do it all.  Look at people's garages, not too many people will choose two cars of the same make, model, color and say "this is UBER"!

What a boring gaming world it would have been the last 8 years without Nintendo!

It's just a couple of hundred bucks, if that is too much money, stop wating time following Nintendo and complaining about it and figure out how to own ALL the consoles and enjoy!

Nintendo doesn't fail any 3rd parties, it's 3rd party's right to choose.  Nintedo wins as the First Party.  When will these same people starting looking at SONY and MSFT and demand "Give us some real IPs so we won't have time to crap all over the house that Mario built!"