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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo's biggest obstacle heading into next generation

HappySqurriel on 27 December 2012
Scisca said:

PS3 has the best longevity this gen. Do you really think it's because of Move?

 

Wii U will be a Gamecube 2. Nobody will want to play inferior ports of multiplatform games, people will just plug it in and turn on once or twice a year to play a new Nintendo 1st party game. It will be too weak to compete for the core gamers and the casuals have already moved on to tablets.

The biggest problem though is that both X360 and PS3 gamers have their achievements/trophies and friend lists already there, they will be tranferable to the next console and this is a HUGE incentive for them to stay with the same manufacturer next gen. Nintendo has no online ecosystem and this will hurt them big time.

I'm not convinced ...

I think a large portion of Nintendo's strategy is to stand back and watch Sony and Microsoft self-destruct.

The kind of hardware people suggest Sony and Microsoft will select for their next generation systems would likely result in a system that costs over $500 to manufacture, if they bundle 3d cameras or tablet controllers to attract (so-called) "Casual" gamers this would probably push the system's manufacturing cost over $600, and both companies have significant problems with taking the same kind of losses on hardware this generation that they took in the previous generation.

If Sony or Microsoft release a $500+ console I expect those systems to struggle while the Wii U gets a bump; and if they hit $600 I think the PS-Vita will look remarkably popular compared to the sales these systems get. With the increased development cost of next generation games, and publishers need for greater sales, they will probably have to support the Wii U far more heavily than they did the Wii if the PS4 or XBox 720 struggle.

This may not happen, but I think it is as likely as the Wii U only getting inferior ports of PS4/XBox 720 games.



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trestres on 27 December 2012
Scisca said:
trestres said:
1) Tapping into the "core" market, like Iwata himself wanted with the release of the Wii U.

This will be next to impossible without proper 3rd party support, which seems will be absent judging by the upcoming lineup. I think Nintendo rushed the Wii U, they should have waited until they had at least some big support from publishers, right now their library is void of any interesting games for the typical 360/PS3 buyer, so they won't make a dent into that segment of the market.

2) 1st party games.

They need to rethink their strategy. Releasing 1 or 2 big games per year is a waste of resources and talent and kills off the console in the long run, just like what happened with the Wii. Since 3rd party support is almost non-existant, why wait for the sales to start dying off to release big games? There needs to be a constant flow of games, and games that showcase the possibilities of things that can be done with the console as well as expanding the market. Trying out new IP's for the core and not relying always on third parties. Localizing games that will obviously sell better in the west and stop being stubborn about it, so if necessary employ more people and expand the localization team.

@1 - Wii U is rushed?? I feel like it came out at least one year too late.

@2 - Nintendo can't release a huge 1st party game every month or two for the next 4-5 years you know. A 3D Mario, Zelda or Metroid in HD will need a lot of time to make, especially since these guys have never dealt with HD games in the past!

1) Support wise, the console has been rushed. It doesn't feel like Nintendo put a lot of effort in that area. There's barely anything coming out. By now, a new console should be having at least 5 games that gamers are eagerly awaiting for and that craetes hype in the VG community. There's nothing big or exciting coming up other than a few small Nintendo games. Other consoles have big things coming up and that is what gaming sites/magazines in general are talking about. 
Nintendo didn't secure anything worth to be called big or that will make a difference, neither has something big announced for the core 1st party wise speaking, so hence going against their strategy to catter to the core. Surprise announcements of games to be released in the near future proved to be counterproductive in the Wii's case and will be hurting games again, that and the almost total lack of info on the games that are yet to be released. People normally won't buy things they know nothing about.

2) Nintendo NEEDS to release big to semi big games in a constant manner. They can't afford to lose userbase, because people will move on to the most attractive platform (Not the case of casuals, like Wii showed, but we agree that Iwata said that Nintendo was aiming for the core this time)
Doesn't matter how they do it, be it acquiring more teams, expanding older ones, making their teams more efficient. They have to. They don't have the luxury to sit and wait for 3rd parties to help them. They will probably be on their own again.



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tag - "I wouldn't trust gamespot, even if it was a live comparison."

Bets with Conegamer:

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melbye on 27 December 2012

Lack of 3rd party support
People's pre-concieved notions
Conservative business-practices



shiackz on 27 December 2012

Knowing how to implement gamepad in non gimmicky ways. And getting a good online infraestructure



ryuzaki57 on 27 December 2012

- lack of 3rd party support
- slow OS
- weak CPU
- rising development costs compared to Wii
- region-locking
- competition with 3DS/Wii
and of course... PS4 & X720!



 

Blog -> https://ryuz4ki57inenglish.wordpress.com/

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OceanJ on 27 December 2012

3rd party support - but why?

Because Asymmetric Gameplay is a dud.

The Wii U says - 2 Screens are better than 1

The industry says - 1 Screen is better than 2.

Why is that? Because it takes too much brainpower, design, creativity, new risks, unknown territory, time, to make a groundbreaking Asymmetric game than a regular 1-screen T.V. game.

Asymmetric Play is already dead in the water for 3rd parties.

No 3rd parties are singing Asymmetric Gameplay's praises. It's already too difficult a financial environment for Dev's, they can't afford to take risks on Asym.



HappySqurriel on 27 December 2012
trestres said:
Scisca said:
trestres said:
1) Tapping into the "core" market, like Iwata himself wanted with the release of the Wii U.

This will be next to impossible without proper 3rd party support, which seems will be absent judging by the upcoming lineup. I think Nintendo rushed the Wii U, they should have waited until they had at least some big support from publishers, right now their library is void of any interesting games for the typical 360/PS3 buyer, so they won't make a dent into that segment of the market.

2) 1st party games.

They need to rethink their strategy. Releasing 1 or 2 big games per year is a waste of resources and talent and kills off the console in the long run, just like what happened with the Wii. Since 3rd party support is almost non-existant, why wait for the sales to start dying off to release big games? There needs to be a constant flow of games, and games that showcase the possibilities of things that can be done with the console as well as expanding the market. Trying out new IP's for the core and not relying always on third parties. Localizing games that will obviously sell better in the west and stop being stubborn about it, so if necessary employ more people and expand the localization team.

@1 - Wii U is rushed?? I feel like it came out at least one year too late.

@2 - Nintendo can't release a huge 1st party game every month or two for the next 4-5 years you know. A 3D Mario, Zelda or Metroid in HD will need a lot of time to make, especially since these guys have never dealt with HD games in the past!

1) Support wise, the console has been rushed. It doesn't feel like Nintendo put a lot of effort in that area. There's barely anything coming out. By now, a new console should be having at least 5 games that gamers are eagerly awaiting for and that craetes hype in the VG community. There's nothing big or exciting coming up other than a few small Nintendo games. Other consoles have big things coming up and that is what gaming sites/magazines in general are talking about. 
Nintendo didn't secure anything worth to be called big or that will make a difference, neither has something big announced for the core 1st party wise speaking, so hence going against their strategy to catter to the core. Surprise announcements of games to be released in the near future proved to be counterproductive in the Wii's case and will be hurting games again, that and the almost total lack of info on the games that are yet to be released. People normally won't buy things they know nothing about.

2) Nintendo NEEDS to release big to semi big games in a constant manner. They can't afford to lose userbase, because people will move on to the most attractive platform (Not the case of casuals, like Wii showed, but we agree that Iwata said that Nintendo was aiming for the core this time)
Doesn't matter how they do it, be it acquiring more teams, expanding older ones, making their teams more efficient. They have to. They don't have the luxury to sit and wait for 3rd parties to help them. They will probably be on their own again.


I have a feeling that you haven't been paying attention to Nintendo's strategy with the DS, Wii and 3DS ...

Nintendo has not been releasing a lot of information about games that aren't near to being released because doing so takes away attention from games that have been or soon will be released. With Nintendo's Wii and DS efforts dominating the best selling game charts, and the systems being Nintendo's best selling hardware, I don't think keeping games quiet until they're near to being released has really hurt software or hardware sales.



trestres on 27 December 2012
HappySqurriel said:
trestres said:
Scisca said:
trestres said:
1) Tapping into the "core" market, like Iwata himself wanted with the release of the Wii U.

This will be next to impossible without proper 3rd party support, which seems will be absent judging by the upcoming lineup. I think Nintendo rushed the Wii U, they should have waited until they had at least some big support from publishers, right now their library is void of any interesting games for the typical 360/PS3 buyer, so they won't make a dent into that segment of the market.

2) 1st party games.

They need to rethink their strategy. Releasing 1 or 2 big games per year is a waste of resources and talent and kills off the console in the long run, just like what happened with the Wii. Since 3rd party support is almost non-existant, why wait for the sales to start dying off to release big games? There needs to be a constant flow of games, and games that showcase the possibilities of things that can be done with the console as well as expanding the market. Trying out new IP's for the core and not relying always on third parties. Localizing games that will obviously sell better in the west and stop being stubborn about it, so if necessary employ more people and expand the localization team.

@1 - Wii U is rushed?? I feel like it came out at least one year too late.

@2 - Nintendo can't release a huge 1st party game every month or two for the next 4-5 years you know. A 3D Mario, Zelda or Metroid in HD will need a lot of time to make, especially since these guys have never dealt with HD games in the past!

1) Support wise, the console has been rushed. It doesn't feel like Nintendo put a lot of effort in that area. There's barely anything coming out. By now, a new console should be having at least 5 games that gamers are eagerly awaiting for and that craetes hype in the VG community. There's nothing big or exciting coming up other than a few small Nintendo games. Other consoles have big things coming up and that is what gaming sites/magazines in general are talking about. 
Nintendo didn't secure anything worth to be called big or that will make a difference, neither has something big announced for the core 1st party wise speaking, so hence going against their strategy to catter to the core. Surprise announcements of games to be released in the near future proved to be counterproductive in the Wii's case and will be hurting games again, that and the almost total lack of info on the games that are yet to be released. People normally won't buy things they know nothing about.

2) Nintendo NEEDS to release big to semi big games in a constant manner. They can't afford to lose userbase, because people will move on to the most attractive platform (Not the case of casuals, like Wii showed, but we agree that Iwata said that Nintendo was aiming for the core this time)
Doesn't matter how they do it, be it acquiring more teams, expanding older ones, making their teams more efficient. They have to. They don't have the luxury to sit and wait for 3rd parties to help them. They will probably be on their own again.


I have a feeling that you haven't been paying attention to Nintendo's strategy with the DS, Wii and 3DS ...

Nintendo has not been releasing a lot of information about games that aren't near to being released because doing so takes away attention from games that have been or soon will be released. With Nintendo's Wii and DS efforts dominating the best selling game charts, and the systems being Nintendo's best selling hardware, I don't think keeping games quiet until they're near to being released has really hurt software or hardware sales.

I have been paying attention. Only their long time franchises had the luxury of being released without showing much of the game previous to their release. What about their new IP's or smaller games? Most of their core offerings ended up forgotten or bombing for the Wii. They don't know how to create hype on new games or on smaller games. And then those are the games that don't get localized, due to the sales "test" failing in a single region (Japan). Of course games like Mario, Zelda, Smash will sell regardless of the time span between announcement and release, and those are the games that sold well on the Wii. Wii U will then be much of the same that Wii was if we go by your logic. The console needs new IP's for the core and they need to be hyped and huge. I cannot see how 2 different games could take hype from one another, that's not true at all. Take a look at PS3/360. GTA5, Bioshock, The Last of US, Gears, God of War, Tomb Raider, Crysis, etc. all coming up soon and all with big amounts of hype.

I'm also afraid that third parties are being silenced therefore their games not reaching the core audiences until well in advance. It's strange that there's barely any games announced from third party devs, almost none coming from the Japanese devs. Nintendo is stubborn, that's one of their biggest problems.

Let me ask you, do you think Wii's strategy was flawless? Why did Nintendo start to care about the core suddenly if according to you the Wii was selling gangbusters of games regardless? 



Proud poster of the 10000th reply at the Official Smash Bros Update Thread.

tag - "I wouldn't trust gamespot, even if it was a live comparison."

Bets with Conegamer:

Pandora's Tower will have an opening week of less than 37k in Japan. (Won!)
Pandora's Tower will sell less than 100k lifetime in Japan.
Stakes: 1 week of avatar control for each one.

Fullfilled Prophecies

HappySqurriel on 27 December 2012
trestres said:

I have been paying attention. Only their long time franchises had the luxury of being released without showing much of the game previous to their release. What about their new IP's or smaller games? Most of their core offerings ended up forgotten or bombing for the Wii. They don't know how to create hype on new games or on smaller games. And then those are the games that don't get localized, due to the sales "test" failing in a single region (Japan). Of course games like Mario, Zelda, Smash will sell regardless of the time span between announcement and release, and those are the games that sold well on the Wii. Wii U will then be much of the same that Wii was if we go by your logic. The console needs new IP's for the core and they need to be hyped and huge. I cannot see how 2 different games could take hype from one another, that's not true at all. Take a look at PS3/360. GTA5, Bioshock, The Last of US, Gears, God of War, Tomb Raider, Crysis, etc. all coming up soon and all with big amounts of hype.

I'm also afraid that third parties are being silenced therefore their games not reaching the core audiences until well in advance. It's strange that there's barely any games announced from third party devs, almost none coming from the Japanese devs. Nintendo is stubborn, that's one of their biggest problems.

Let me ask you, do you think Wii's strategy was flawless? Why did Nintendo start to care about the core suddenly if according to you the Wii was selling gangbusters of games regardless? 


I don't think the Wii strategy is flawless and I think the biggest mistake Nintendo makes is not being agressive enough. Had they released a system with a PowerPC 970MP@1.5GHz, a Radeon X600, 256MB of memory, and had MotionPlus by default they probably could have released the Wii for $300 with Wii Sports; and they probably would have been better able to compete against the HD consoles in 2010 and beyond.

Nintendo could take ideas like Miiverse further, and they could integrate social networking with the Wii U to the extent that people "advertise it" on facebook, twitter and youtube.

Nintendo could disrupt online gameplay by taking the single cart multiplayer idea from their handhelds and using it on the Wii U; essentially, allowing a person to play a limited version of a game with their friend without having bought the game.



Mr Khan on 27 December 2012
dsgrue3 said:
The competition offering vastly superior products.

Watch it.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.