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Forums - General - To Christians: Adam/Eve vs dinosaurs?

KHlover said:
lilc64 said:

The bible speaks of giants and a land filled with giants, whose to say the word giant was only used to describe people. Brother let me tell you another good bit of information, the bible was written to pass on the works of God and Jesus just because something was not written doesn't mean it didn't happen. We were created and as the world changes so do we, that doesn't mean we were created from an explosion in space it means we were designed that way. Being a believer is a great thing some people see the bible as a be all end all type of thing but i see it as more of an example of how we should live our lives.

That's the problem with the bible - you can take almost ANY verse from it and interpret it until it "proves" what you wanted to be proven or contains what you wanted it to contain. This statement should not insult you or your post, but it was one thing that drove me away from trusting most things written in the bible.


This also.



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lilc64 said:
KHlover said:
lilc64 said:

The bible speaks of giants and a land filled with giants, whose to say the word giant was only used to describe people. Brother let me tell you another good bit of information, the bible was written to pass on the works of God and Jesus just because something was not written doesn't mean it didn't happen. We were created and as the world changes so do we, that doesn't mean we were created from an explosion in space it means we were designed that way. Being a believer is a great thing some people see the bible as a be all end all type of thing but i see it as more of an example of how we should live our lives.

That's the problem with the bible - you can take almost ANY verse from it and interpret it until it "proves" what you wanted to be proven or contains what you wanted it to contain. This statement should not insult you or your post, but it was one thing that drove me away from trusting most things written in the bible.

I take no offense to that since i also questioned my religion at one time, but ive seen things with my own eyes that cant be describe by science or theory. My question to you is what do you believe, everything a scientist say about the past is based on theories and assumptions would you put your faith in them or their words?

 

oan: im leaving the house so if i stop posting dont think i stopped responding im just not by a computer .

I believe what I think could possibly have happened in the past, most books of the OT ARE pretty believable (scientists already discovered several cities mentioned in the OT but nowhere else), but I simply think the evolution theory is more convincing that the Genesis.



dsgrue3 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
dsgrue3 said:

Evolution is a fact of life, bud. You're 18 and didn't realize this?  See my previous post in regard to hominids and take a basic science course on anthropology.

Radiocarbon Dating is a tried and true process, the "impossibility" of it is your own ignorance of the subject matter. 

I know all about radiocarbon dating being that I'm a biochem major. However, the problem I have with it is that it really isn't tried and true. In order to be tried and true a million years from now scientist need to use the method on something from now and get accurate reads. That is the only way to be able to perform the experiment.

Fair. That would remove all doubt from the process.

But it isn't some fabricated congregation of numbers as the OP seems to believe, it's based upon known values such as the decay of carbon and the ratio of carbon isotopes in the atmosphere.

It is. But when dealing with numbers and formulas such as these there are some things to remember. Sometimes formulas don't reflect something as well as another thing that are similar. Sometimes being very slightly off effects everything. But what I'd like to know is if a certain point something were to happen that we haven't observed yet (internally and externally).



mai said:
ps3-sales! said:

And for the fossil records, I find it impossible for me to believe that scientists can tell you how many millions of years old a rock is. That just sounds stupid. I know they have their equations and tests and what not, but still.

Radiometric dating for instance.

Cannot even take OP seriosuly. Your parents must be some christian fundamentalists.

 


Read my reponse to the first person that bought up radiometric dating, before trying to disprove something someone believes make sure your proof is legit. Radiometric dating is based on an asssumption it is not fact like most theories scientist present. No one man knows the truth until he dies. Now im leaving the house seriously this time.



Max King of the Wild said:
dsgrue3 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
dsgrue3 said:

Evolution is a fact of life, bud. You're 18 and didn't realize this?  See my previous post in regard to hominids and take a basic science course on anthropology.

Radiocarbon Dating is a tried and true process, the "impossibility" of it is your own ignorance of the subject matter. 

I know all about radiocarbon dating being that I'm a biochem major. However, the problem I have with it is that it really isn't tried and true. In order to be tried and true a million years from now scientist need to use the method on something from now and get accurate reads. That is the only way to be able to perform the experiment.

Fair. That would remove all doubt from the process.

But it isn't some fabricated congregation of numbers as the OP seems to believe, it's based upon known values such as the decay of carbon and the ratio of carbon isotopes in the atmosphere.

It is. But when dealing with numbers and formulas such as these there are some things to remember. Sometimes formulas don't reflect something as well as another thing that are similar. Sometimes being very slightly off effects everything. But what I'd like to know is if a certain point something were to happen that we haven't observed yet (internally and externally).

If carbon dating were the only method we used, you'd have a valid point.  But have dozens.  Some offer more accurate pictures or work on better elements than others but when you combine them together, it's pretty damn hard to refute the results.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

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lilc64 said:
mai said:
ps3-sales! said:

And for the fossil records, I find it impossible for me to believe that scientists can tell you how many millions of years old a rock is. That just sounds stupid. I know they have their equations and tests and what not, but still.

Radiometric dating for instance.

Cannot even take OP seriosuly. Your parents must be some christian fundamentalists.

 


Read my reponse to the first person that bought up radiometric dating, before trying to disprove something someone believes make sure your proof is legit. Radiometric dating is based on an asssumption it is not fact like most theories scientist present. No one man knows the truth until he dies. Now im leaving the house seriously this time.

It sure is not 100% accurate but if we date something at 65 million years old do you honestly think we are off by 64.996 million years?  When did faith become ignoring facts?  Dinosaurs are irrelevant to God's message in the bible, to focus on the trivial in this way is to not see the forest through the trees so to speak. 



Viper1 said:
Max King of the Wild said:
dsgrue3 said:
Max King of the Wild said:

 

 

 

 

 

If carbon dating were the only method we used, you'd have a valid point.  But have dozens.  Some offer more accurate pictures or work on better elements than others but when you combine them together, it's pretty damn hard to refute the results.



So you think. People also had evidence that protiens carried our genetic material at one point and that atoms were the smallest particle. But we know better now. All I'm saying is you can't say its absolute untill proven and it takes a lot to prove something.

Also, even with the dating it still doesn't disprove religion. Just certain views religions has held at one point (just like science has done to itself so many times before)

And I'm not religious. I love science and truth (biochem major with a minor in philosophy). But I'm not going to be so quick to say "this disproves that or this proves it"



lilc64 said:

Read my reponse to the first person that bought up radiometric dating, before trying to disprove something someone believes make sure your proof is legit. Radiometric dating is based on an asssumption it is not fact like most theories scientist present. No one man knows the truth until he dies. Now im leaving the house seriously this time.

I'm not trying to disprove anything as I said I don't take OP seriosuly.

 

You mean this quote?

lilc64 said:

Maybe you should take that class again, you try to point out his "ignorance" while failing to realize radiocarbon dating is based on a critical assumption. The fact of the matter is no one knows until the day they die, so try to be a little nicer when assuming everything you read or a scientist says is fact.

That's not even an argument. Besides I said radiometric dating for a reason not limiting myself to radiocarbon method.

 

And you just behave overly aggressive, not that I care, just a suggestion to not take it personally whatever your believes might be.



Max King of the Wild said:
Viper1 said:

If carbon dating were the only method we used, you'd have a valid point.  But have dozens.  Some offer more accurate pictures or work on better elements than others but when you combine them together, it's pretty damn hard to refute the results.



So you think. People also had evidence that protiens carried our genetic material at one point and that atoms were the smallest particle. But we know better now. All I'm saying is you can't say its absolute untill proven and it takes a lot to prove something.

Also, even with the dating it still doesn't disprove religion. Just certain views religions has held at one point (just like science has done to itself so many times before)

And I'm not religious. I love science and truth (biochem major with a minor in philosophy). But I'm not going to be so quick to say "this disproves that or this proves it"

And you'll never hear me say science disrpoves God.  Only it changes perceptions and interpretations.

You are correct that newer information changes previously held scientific data.  But that's also the point of science.  By design it is supposed to be constantly updated.  You could say that science is merely a momentary snapshot of accumulated data.

But as noted by Flash Gordon, even if they were off a little bit, it's not likely that all methods are off by 4.8 billion years....or 65 million (depending on what you are dating)



The rEVOLution is not being televised

lilc64 said:
KHlover said:
lilc64 said:

The bible speaks of giants and a land filled with giants, whose to say the word giant was only used to describe people. Brother let me tell you another good bit of information, the bible was written to pass on the works of God and Jesus just because something was not written doesn't mean it didn't happen. We were created and as the world changes so do we, that doesn't mean we were created from an explosion in space it means we were designed that way. Being a believer is a great thing some people see the bible as a be all end all type of thing but i see it as more of an example of how we should live our lives.

That's the problem with the bible - you can take almost ANY verse from it and interpret it until it "proves" what you wanted to be proven or contains what you wanted it to contain. This statement should not insult you or your post, but it was one thing that drove me away from trusting most things written in the bible.

I take no offense to that since i also questioned my religion at one time, but ive seen things with my own eyes that cant be describe by science or theory. My question to you is what do you believe, everything a scientist say about the past is based on theories and assumptions would you put your faith in them or their words?

 

oan: im leaving the house so if i stop posting dont think i stopped responding im just not by a computer .


I don't understand why that if things can't be explained, it must be that God exists? Like, say, if I can see ghosts, WTF would that have to do with God? Why must there be only a single entity? Why not Gods? If I can shoot energy from my hands and nobody can explain it, WTF would that have to do with religions or God? God is a theory in itself, anything scientists say about the past are all theories unproven based on proven science is pretty much it, but I have no idea what that has anything to do with the bible or God even if we can prove an ancient document written by "men" to be wrong on many terms.

One thing I do know is that the Chinese populace is the only remaining ancient civilization today at about 5000-6000 years and we don't even have those kinds of records that people worship. We did have a lot of scandalous fucks reaping off the ignorant in our history though. Perhaps Moses and the likes of Jesus just did a better job than the rest, prolly why one got chased out and the other crucified IMO.