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Forums - Politics Discussion - America's tax problem- What is the freaking problem? Also Socialism in America takes a hit!j

 

Will we go over the fiscal cliff this time?

YES 65 37.79%
 
no 15 8.72%
 
Fruck America! 32 18.60%
 
Is anything made in America anymore? 30 17.44%
 
see results 27 15.70%
 
Total:169
Aielyn said:
Kantor said:
So basically they passed all of the tax increases and postponed the spending cuts?

Hooray, worst of both worlds.

They didn't pass "all of the tax increases" at all. I suggest you check up on what was actually done.

Kantor said:
*sees terrifyingly long and detailed posts above and leaves*

Leaves? I don't see any leaves. *looks around* could do with a few plants, though.

Okay, granted, the tax increases are less severe than what would have taken place over the fiscal cliff, but they are still there, and Congress will have to go through this whole fiasco again in two months because they still haven't cut spending.

And the2real4mafol's signature is full of leaves.

Spurgeonryan's has quite a few as well.

 



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Kantor said:
Okay, granted, the tax increases are less severe than what would have taken place over the fiscal cliff, but they are still there, and Congress will have to go through this whole fiasco again in two months because they still haven't cut spending.

And the2real4mafol's signature is full of leaves.

Spurgeonryan's has quite a few as well.

 

The vast majority of Americans didn't get a tax increase. Less than 1% of Americans earn over $400,000 a year. That's a pretty big difference from every American that earns a wage getting a tax increase. And in fact, the tax increase that was set to happen was built into the Bush tax cuts, and delayed by Obama for a couple of years after that. So in fact, it's a permanent (that is, without a time limit) tax cut for everyone (yes, even those earning over $400,000 a year - look into the mathematics of how taxes work). It's a matter of high comedy that you Americans have let the Republicans convince you that this is somehow a massive tax increase by Obama.

As for spending cuts, it's not like they've cancelled them. They're just delayed by two months, because apparently, they realised that more dealing was needed to actually come to a suitable compromise, and since spending is such a snarl of issues, it'll take more than a couple of nights to actually address it.

Oh, and as for leaves, I have display of signatures turned off, so for me, the picture you posted is the first sign of leaves, as far as I can see.



Aielyn said:
Kantor said:
Okay, granted, the tax increases are less severe than what would have taken place over the fiscal cliff, but they are still there, and Congress will have to go through this whole fiasco again in two months because they still haven't cut spending.

And the2real4mafol's signature is full of leaves.

Spurgeonryan's has quite a few as well.

 

The vast majority of Americans didn't get a tax increase. Less than 1% of Americans earn over $400,000 a year. That's a pretty big difference from every American that earns a wage getting a tax increase. And in fact, the tax increase that was set to happen was built into the Bush tax cuts, and delayed by Obama for a couple of years after that. So in fact, it's a permanent (that is, without a time limit) tax cut for everyone (yes, even those earning over $400,000 a year - look into the mathematics of how taxes work). It's a matter of high comedy that you Americans have let the Republicans convince you that this is somehow a massive tax increase by Obama.

As for spending cuts, it's not like they've cancelled them. They're just delayed by two months, because apparently, they realised that more dealing was needed to actually come to a suitable compromise, and since spending is such a snarl of issues, it'll take more than a couple of nights to actually address it.

Oh, and as for leaves, I have display of signatures turned off, so for me, the picture you posted is the first sign of leaves, as far as I can see.

Yes, thank you, I am aware of how progressive taxation works.

And the partial expiry of the Bush tax cuts isn't what I was referring to. To quote directly from the BBC article:

However, the deal did also allow some tax rises to go ahead, namely:

  • the expiry of a payroll tax holiday, expected to raise $95bn in additional annual revenue
  • allowing the Bush-era income tax cuts for individuals earning over $400,000 to come to an end, with the top rate increasing from 35% to 40%
  • higher taxes on dividend income, capital gains and inheritance for these same top earners
  • phasing out certain income tax deductions for individuals earning more than $200,000

The first is certainly a tax increase on everyone.

And yes, they'll have to get around to cutting spending eventually, but they postponed it for a year and a half back in 2010, and now they're doing it for another two months. How long can they keep kicking this can down the road? Will they still be passing bills to delay spending cuts by six months at a time ten years from now?



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Kantor said:
And the partial expiry of the Bush tax cuts isn't what I was referring to. To quote directly from the BBC article:

However, the deal did also allow some tax rises to go ahead, namely:

  • the expiry of a payroll tax holiday, expected to raise $95bn in additional annual revenue
  • allowing the Bush-era income tax cuts for individuals earning over $400,000 to come to an end, with the top rate increasing from 35% to 40%
  • higher taxes on dividend income, capital gains and inheritance for these same top earners
  • phasing out certain income tax deductions for individuals earning more than $200,000

The first is certainly a tax increase on everyone.

And yes, they'll have to get around to cutting spending eventually, but they postponed it for a year and a half back in 2010, and now they're doing it for another two months. How long can they keep kicking this can down the road? Will they still be passing bills to delay spending cuts by six months at a time ten years from now?

Again, allowing an expiry that was already set into the law to occur is not a tax increase, it's the end of a temporary tax cut, and what's more, it was a temporary tax cut put in place by Obama (or rather, with Obama's blessing, two years ago, when extending the bush tax cuts). So are you really complaining that he (and congress) allowed a tax to "increase" back to where it was before he took office?

As for the "kicking down the road" stuff, I'll say to you what I've been emphasising to others in America over the last few weeks on this forum - if the government isn't doing its job, vote them out. If both the Democrats and Republicans are pfaffing around and failing to do their jobs, vote in a third party. Stop acting as though you have no control over government.



Aielyn said:
Kantor said:
And the partial expiry of the Bush tax cuts isn't what I was referring to. To quote directly from the BBC article:

However, the deal did also allow some tax rises to go ahead, namely:

  • the expiry of a payroll tax holiday, expected to raise $95bn in additional annual revenue
  • allowing the Bush-era income tax cuts for individuals earning over $400,000 to come to an end, with the top rate increasing from 35% to 40%
  • higher taxes on dividend income, capital gains and inheritance for these same top earners
  • phasing out certain income tax deductions for individuals earning more than $200,000

The first is certainly a tax increase on everyone.

And yes, they'll have to get around to cutting spending eventually, but they postponed it for a year and a half back in 2010, and now they're doing it for another two months. How long can they keep kicking this can down the road? Will they still be passing bills to delay spending cuts by six months at a time ten years from now?

Again, allowing an expiry that was already set into the law to occur is not a tax increase, it's the end of a temporary tax cut, and what's more, it was a temporary tax cut put in place by Obama (or rather, with Obama's blessing, two years ago, when extending the bush tax cuts). So are you really complaining that he (and congress) allowed a tax to "increase" back to where it was before he took office?

As for the "kicking down the road" stuff, I'll say to you what I've been emphasising to others in America over the last few weeks on this forum - if the government isn't doing its job, vote them out. If both the Democrats and Republicans are pfaffing around and failing to do their jobs, vote in a third party. Stop acting as though you have no control over government.

It's a tax increase, whether or not the cut was intended to be temporary, just like the partial-expiry of the bush tax cuts is a tax increase.

It's worth adding at this point that I don't actually live in America. It's just that American politics are far more interesting and less depressing than British. But when you consider that 89 senators (comprising the majority of both parties) and a significant number of politicians from both parties in the House (a majority od Democrats) voted in favour of this bill, it's hard to see exactly who else you can vote in. That's the trouble with the two party system. America doesn't have a third party.

Hell, Britain has four major parties now and you still don't have much of a choice.



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Aielyn said:
Kantor said:
And the partial expiry of the Bush tax cuts isn't what I was referring to. To quote directly from the BBC article:

However, the deal did also allow some tax rises to go ahead, namely:

  • the expiry of a payroll tax holiday, expected to raise $95bn in additional annual revenue
  • allowing the Bush-era income tax cuts for individuals earning over $400,000 to come to an end, with the top rate increasing from 35% to 40%
  • higher taxes on dividend income, capital gains and inheritance for these same top earners
  • phasing out certain income tax deductions for individuals earning more than $200,000

The first is certainly a tax increase on everyone.

And yes, they'll have to get around to cutting spending eventually, but they postponed it for a year and a half back in 2010, and now they're doing it for another two months. How long can they keep kicking this can down the road? Will they still be passing bills to delay spending cuts by six months at a time ten years from now?

Again, allowing an expiry that was already set into the law to occur is not a tax increase, it's the end of a temporary tax cut, and what's more, it was a temporary tax cut put in place by Obama (or rather, with Obama's blessing, two years ago, when extending the bush tax cuts). So are you really complaining that he (and congress) allowed a tax to "increase" back to where it was before he took office?

As for the "kicking down the road" stuff, I'll say to you what I've been emphasising to others in America over the last few weeks on this forum - if the government isn't doing its job, vote them out. If both the Democrats and Republicans are pfaffing around and failing to do their jobs, vote in a third party. Stop acting as though you have no control over government.


Everyone at my job, including those who make miniumun wage will have to pay an INCREASED pay roll tax. Or in other words more tax. Every single person that has a job. Sounds like a lot more than 1%. They also did not mention the obama care tax that will be levied upon the middle class(those most likely to not have health insurance, and to not qualify for free insurance). I think it is 400 dollars a year. So that is a second increase that will effect people not in the top 1%. So yes taxes are increasing, for everybody.



So, both spending and tax rates are going up?

How unpredictable.



thranx said:

Everyone at my job, including those who make miniumun wage will have to pay an INCREASED pay roll tax. Or in other words more tax. Every single person that has a job. Sounds like a lot more than 1%. They also did not mention the obama care tax that will be levied upon the middle class(those most likely to not have health insurance, and to not qualify for free insurance). I think it is 400 dollars a year. So that is a second increase that will effect people not in the top 1%. So yes taxes are increasing, for everybody.


I remember reading that the Obamacare tax is actually one of the largest tax increases in American history? Though that could have just been some Facebook tosh.

I wonder how many people are facing tax increases from their states and locals this year, also.



SamuelRSmith said:
thranx said:

Everyone at my job, including those who make miniumun wage will have to pay an INCREASED pay roll tax. Or in other words more tax. Every single person that has a job. Sounds like a lot more than 1%. They also did not mention the obama care tax that will be levied upon the middle class(those most likely to not have health insurance, and to not qualify for free insurance). I think it is 400 dollars a year. So that is a second increase that will effect people not in the top 1%. So yes taxes are increasing, for everybody.


I remember reading that the Obamacare tax is actually one of the largest tax increases in American history? Though that could have just been some Facebook tosh.

I wonder how many people are facing tax increases from their states and locals this year, also.

Living in CA we will be increasing our sales tax i believe. I am not sure about my local city and county yet. I think California enacted something around 800 new laws this year. Crazy if you ask me, thats an insane number for one state.



thranx said:

Living in CA we will be increasing our sales tax i believe. I am not sure about my local city and county yet. I think California enacted something around 800 new laws this year. Crazy if you ask me, thats an insane number for one state.


CA also has income tax increases scheduled.

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_Proposition_30,_Sales_and_Income_Tax_Increase_(2012)

Which makes data like this all-the-much-less suprising:

http://visual.ly/moving-money-how-economic-climate-has-affected-interstate-migration

No surprises about Texas, Florida, New Hampshire, New York, and Cali.

EDIT: Crunching the numbers, looks like the highest income rate is above 50% in Cali when including all taxes at all levels. Crazy.