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Forums - General Discussion - Was the Moon Landing the Most Badass Event in American History?

superchunk on 18 December 2012
the_dengle said:

I would agree if the Civil War wasn't also one of the most disgraceful events in American history. When you think about it, half our country was fighting to keep slavery.

ugh... need to restudy the primary parts of the Cival War. Slavery was not the primary focus and reason behind the war. Primary issue was taxes and lack of a voice up north where all the rules were being made. Slavery was the North's propoganda to ensure they kept support. Wars always have a set of real issues and a set of media/propoganda issues. Proof of this is how long after the cival war was over that nonWhites were still treated in every manner as unequal in the US. Slavery was a small part of the war.

North still believed blacks were less, put them in front lines and in the worst scenarios. They were left on fields to decay vs buried or buried in mass graves or separate graves. It mostly came down to taxation and laws that were far worse on southern lifestyles and financial ecosystem and promoted the north and manufacturing only.



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superchunk on 18 December 2012

I think that moon landing is awesome, but not most badass, after all Russia had already been in space. I'd have to go with US actions in WW2... saving Europe, stealing German scientists, creating Atom Bombs, Dominating wars on two major fronts, using Atom Bomb, becoming the world leader in more areas than I can mention.

Prior to that US was just a major player on the world stage. After that we were THE major player on the world stage. Problem is that form of world leadership has broken the US and created a lot of world policy that is very, very bad for others and will eventually collapse the nation itself... like any "empire".



Adinnieken on 18 December 2012

No, the most badass event in American History will be the successful colonization of Gamma Ceti V in 2147!  People thought the Lunar and Martian colonies were badass.  pfft....

80 light years in 6 hours!?!?!?  How is that not impressively badass?

The only thing better was the invention of the time machine in 3592.  The announcement of it in Popular Science just completely floored the world.  Well, I don't know that yet!  I have to get back and contact Popular Science magazine to let them know it works!

And people laugh about Palo Alto Junior College's physics program!



the_dengle on 18 December 2012
outlawauron said:

The primary motive of fighting was the North's desire to continue the Union. Slavery only became an issue in the war two years after it had already and was in name only. No one was ever saved or freed until the 13th Amendment. Lincoln was never a proponent of racial equality or anything similar. While slavery was a motivator for secession, it wasn't the cornerstone of it. You still had 4 slave states fight against the Confederacy (once again, during the war and afterwards, slavery was permitted until the 13th amendment). It's truly a shame that so many had to die to reach an ending that would have happened very soon regardless.

Is this what they teach you guys down South? You sure don't seem to know anything about the events leading into the Civil War. I'd suggest you go see Lincoln, but you don't sound like you'd be interested.

 

superchunk said:

North still believed blacks were less, put them in front lines and in the worst scenarios. They were left on fields to decay vs buried or buried in mass graves or separate graves. It mostly came down to taxation and laws that were far worse on southern lifestyles and financial ecosystem and promoted the north and manufacturing only.

There's no doubt almost all whites in the country were heavily racist at the time, and for a long time after. But the Joe Shmoes don't make policy or declare war; the government does.



outlawauron on 18 December 2012
the_dengle said:
outlawauron said:

The primary motive of fighting was the North's desire to continue the Union. Slavery only became an issue in the war two years after it had already and was in name only. No one was ever saved or freed until the 13th Amendment. Lincoln was never a proponent of racial equality or anything similar. While slavery was a motivator for secession, it wasn't the cornerstone of it. You still had 4 slave states fight against the Confederacy (once again, during the war and afterwards, slavery was permitted until the 13th amendment). It's truly a shame that so many had to die to reach an ending that would have happened very soon regardless.

Is this what they teach you guys down South? You sure don't seem to know anything about the events leading into the Civil War. I'd suggest you go see Lincoln, but you don't sound like you'd be interested.

Really now? Here's a direct quote from Lincoln.

""I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything."

His goal of unifying the country was admirable, but he did (suspending habeas corpus to jail senators and media who disagreed with him) and said plenty of despicable things.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

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outlawauron on 18 December 2012
the_dengle said:
outlawauron said:

The primary motive of fighting was the North's desire to continue the Union. Slavery only became an issue in the war two years after it had already and was in name only. No one was ever saved or freed until the 13th Amendment. Lincoln was never a proponent of racial equality or anything similar. While slavery was a motivator for secession, it wasn't the cornerstone of it. You still had 4 slave states fight against the Confederacy (once again, during the war and afterwards, slavery was permitted until the 13th amendment). It's truly a shame that so many had to die to reach an ending that would have happened very soon regardless.

Is this what they teach you guys down South? You sure don't seem to know anything about the events leading into the Civil War. I'd suggest you go see Lincoln, but you don't sound like you'd be interested.

 

superchunk said:

North still believed blacks were less, put them in front lines and in the worst scenarios. They were left on fields to decay vs buried or buried in mass graves or separate graves. It mostly came down to taxation and laws that were far worse on southern lifestyles and financial ecosystem and promoted the north and manufacturing only.

There's no doubt almost all whites in the country were heavily racist at the time, and for a long time after. But the Joe Shmoes don't make policy or declare war; the government does.

Here's another 'oh rly?'

During the time of the Civil War, it was illegal and punishable by death to be black in Oregon (part of the Union in 1859). What are they teaching you?

Edit: Also, major lolz at your subtle jab.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

the_dengle on 18 December 2012
outlawauron said:

Really now? Here's a direct quote from Lincoln.

""I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything."

His goal of unifying the country was admirable, but he did (suspending habeas corpus to jail senators and media who disagreed with him) and said plenty of despicable things.

Yeah, as I said, everyone was still really racist. But one side of that war recognized that slavery was finished and the other did not. Tell me, if slavery was not an issue and was purely propoganda by the North, why were all of the Confederate states slave states, and why didn't the Confederacy likewise put an end to slavery? The reason the 13th Amendment passed during the Civil War is because it couldn't have passed while the Southern states held their seats in Congress, because they would have voted against it, along with half the Northern states.



outlawauron on 18 December 2012
the_dengle said:
outlawauron said:

Really now? Here's a direct quote from Lincoln.

""I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything."

His goal of unifying the country was admirable, but he did (suspending habeas corpus to jail senators and media who disagreed with him) and said plenty of despicable things.

Yeah, as I said, everyone was still really racist. But one side of that war recognized that slavery was finished and the other did not. Tell me, if slavery was not an issue and was purely propoganda by the North, why were all of the Confederate states slave states, and why didn't the Confederacy likewise put an end to slavery?

One side didn't recognize it as finished as there were 4 slave states fighting for the Union. And if the Union thought slavery was finished, why did they wait till after the war to forbid slavery? The emancipation proclamation did not stop slavery in the 4 slave states or any of the terriotory that the Union had won back. Slavery was an issue, but it was not the main issue or catalyst for secession. I do believe that if the Civil War never existed and there were two separate countries, slavery would have ceased to exist. It would certainly not have come as early as the 13th Amendment did, but manufacturing would have crept down and and so would abolition.

I understand we're debating nuances of what is a great evil, but let's not paint the broad brush that you are.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

Ssliasil on 18 December 2012

im pretty sure the invention of the Internet may be America's most amazing creation/event...



...uhh...ill just put my favorite quote of all time here.

"Welcome to Pain, the second of three...You have dealt the first...now deal with me!!"

fighter on 18 December 2012
the_dengle said:
fighter said:


i think you guys completely forgot the context of the cold war and the reasons behind the huge budgets deployed...

The politics behind the Moon landing are irrelevant to the appeal of it. The political ramifications of the event were the farthest thing from the minds of most of the people watching, awestruck, all around the world. For most, it represented one giant leap for mankind, not one giant nail in the coffin of the Soviet Union. In the grand scheme of things, on the scale of the Universe, another petty war fought for a miniscule period of time is nothing. The Moon landing was the culmination of billions of years of Earth's development, hundreds of millions of years of evolution, thousands of years of technological advancements and scientific understanding. Our battle was not against another short-lived human, but one of the fundamental laws of nature that has been in place since the beginning of the Universe. Men have gained and lost power, empires risen and fallen many times in our history, but on that night in 1969, we unbound ourselves from the planet on which every war and struggle in human history was fought, on which every human being has been born and died. Everything that has ever happened to any human being has occurred on or in the air around Earth until that moment. I could go on.

threatening