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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Next generation console development is seriously hurting the Wii U.

menx64 on 16 December 2012

Yet another wiiu doesnt have third games thread? Oh boy... As a network engineer myself (not yet though, still in progress) I believe every piece of hardware is interesting, some more than others but still interesting. Between old and new code (Your words not mine) I'd say it depends. Some programmers might go after the newest thing out there, while others would just rather to optimize the old code to unseen levels.
The problem that I see with what you are trying to say, is that the wiiU uses a new type of architecture, so your point is just not valid.



Menx64

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Squilliam on 16 December 2012
menx64 said:
Yet another wiiu doesnt have third games thread? Oh boy... As a network engineer myself (not yet though, still in progress) I believe every piece of hardware is interesting, some more than others but still interesting. Between old and new code (Your words not mine) I'd say it depends. Some programmers might go after the newest thing out there, while others would just rather to optimize the old code to unseen levels.
The problem that I see with what you are trying to say, is that the wiiU uses a new type of architecture, so your point is just not valid.

The Wii U *could be* a Tri-core Wii CPU which is clocked a little faster with more cache. The evidence points in that direction like for instance the shared instruction set and paired singles but we lack final confirmation.

Anyway my point was that there is limited engineering talent which would be needed to port games to the Wii U and much of that talent is devoted presently towards developing the first 'next gen' engines for console and PC development. Had the Wii U for instance come out in 2010 there wouldn't be the same conflict between devoting resources towards the next generation engines and porting existing engines to new architectures. Beyond this there is the human factor where developers who have been working with the same toys for the past 8 years get to try something new. So if you got the choice to play with new fibre optic networking technolgy or upgrading an old 10/100 ethernet to gigabit which would you prefer?



Tease.

Aquietguy on 16 December 2012
Squilliam said:

Put yourself in the position of a very good software engineer. You're making games because you're in it for the love and not so much the money as you could probably do uninteresting non gaming development and earn at least twice the salary with better hours. Publishers and managers only have so much sway on you because the chances of being unemployed for more than a couple of weeks between jobs is pretty slim. This is the challenge of managing a talented employee base which has mobile skills and a real willingness to walk if they don't get what they want.

You have two major options, either you maintain old code and port the Wii U or you can work on completely new architectures and take on new challenges so which one do you pick? Remembering that you're in it for the love and not the money so unless you have a specific love for Nintendo you're probably going to pick the latter. Now multiply this effect by X number of engineers spread over Y number of development houses and you have the answer as to why Z numbers multiplatform ports aren't coming Nintendo's way.

So there we have it, a repeat of the last generation where 3rd party developers pretty much only develop for the Nintendo console because they 'have to'  and any developer with a choice exercises it generally and develops for other systems. Nintendo was simply unwilling to do what the top level developers wanted and hence they don't get the support from the top level developers, had the Wii U been more powerful it would have been a lot more interesting to developers or had it come say in 2010 there wouldn't have been the option for these developers to simply move onto new systems.

TLDR: Top level developers would have no problem supporting the Wii U but they just don't want to and managers can't tell them what to do.


What happens when the PS4 and 720 comes out with a similar architectur? Will they also miss out on 3rd party for the same reason? You can't just single out the U.



snowdog on 16 December 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
HappySqurriel said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
DarkD said:
Your argument falls flat with the good old, people like working with what they know. Ever see an old person with a computer. How about your parents? Do they use all this new technology that's coming out? If so, did they shy away from it for awhile quoting how they are too old for it? People like using what they know works. Technology is the same, and people who love making games, love making games on familiar platforms because then theres no learning curve.

Given this fact, I say the PS4 and xbox 720 are doomed for the very reasons we just stated. Game developers who love making games won't want to develop on them.


Game developers are the ones who have been demanding the next gen tech from Microsoft and Sony. 


Here is the problem ...

The executives at Epic Games do not reflect the opinion of the game industry as a whole, and they have a huge vested interest in pushing graphical technology to the point that the typical developer struggles to survive. Certainly there are lots of high profile studios who want more advanced hardware, but the silent majority is probably less excited about dramatic increases in development costs to target platforms with small userbases again.


True, however, a large percentage of developers depend on Epics engine and will use Unreal Engine 4 for next gen titles. If the Wii U gets those titles they will be dumbed down. The Wii U ports have been quite ok at best. When next gen comes they will need to work around the rules of the top western devs.

I think we may see the Unreal Engine falling out of favour this gen. We'll see Unity 4 and CryEngine 3 gaining popularity, particularly since developers get a licence for the former engine for free with each Wii U dev kit. And after the PS4 and 720 are released (next gen is already here) the fact that Nintendo have chosen a GPU with a fair amount of grunt behind it and low latency RAM combined with all 3 consoles this gen having similar architectures means that developers will find it easier to port code between them. The Wii U will give up-ports and receive down-ports but the difference in eye candy quality isn't going to be as much as people think. We're not going to see the same difference in power between the Wii U, PS4 and 720 that we saw last gen with the Wii, PS3 and 360.



S.T.A.G.E. on 16 December 2012
snowdog said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
HappySqurriel said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
DarkD said:
Your argument falls flat with the good old, people like working with what they know. Ever see an old person with a computer. How about your parents? Do they use all this new technology that's coming out? If so, did they shy away from it for awhile quoting how they are too old for it? People like using what they know works. Technology is the same, and people who love making games, love making games on familiar platforms because then theres no learning curve.

Given this fact, I say the PS4 and xbox 720 are doomed for the very reasons we just stated. Game developers who love making games won't want to develop on them.


Game developers are the ones who have been demanding the next gen tech from Microsoft and Sony. 


Here is the problem ...

The executives at Epic Games do not reflect the opinion of the game industry as a whole, and they have a huge vested interest in pushing graphical technology to the point that the typical developer struggles to survive. Certainly there are lots of high profile studios who want more advanced hardware, but the silent majority is probably less excited about dramatic increases in development costs to target platforms with small userbases again.


True, however, a large percentage of developers depend on Epics engine and will use Unreal Engine 4 for next gen titles. If the Wii U gets those titles they will be dumbed down. The Wii U ports have been quite ok at best. When next gen comes they will need to work around the rules of the top western devs.

I think we may see the Unreal Engine falling out of favour this gen. We'll see Unity 4 and CryEngine 3 gaining popularity, particularly since developers get a licence for the former engine for free with each Wii U dev kit. And after the PS4 and 720 are released (next gen is already here) the fact that Nintendo have chosen a GPU with a fair amount of grunt behind it and low latency RAM combined with all 3 consoles this gen having similar architectures means that developers will find it easier to port code between them. The Wii U will give up-ports and receive down-ports but the difference in eye candy quality isn't going to be as much as people think. We're not going to see the same difference in power between the Wii U, PS4 and 720 that we saw last gen with the Wii, PS3 and 360.


Yes we will see the difference. No one was asking Nintendo to change anything, just their competition.



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N-Magic on 16 December 2012

i'm so fine whith 1party !!! no one can fight nintendo 1party !!! 2party r ok !! and i think 3party will see the difference of Wii U GamePad and Wii U its low price for making a great game



SaviorX on 16 December 2012

Well technically you can do whatever you want if you are unemployed.



Leatherhat on July 6th, 2012 3pm. Vita sales:"3 mil for COD 2 mil for AC. Maybe more. "  thehusbo on July 6th, 2012 5pm. Vita sales:"5 mil for COD 2.2 mil for AC."

snowdog on 16 December 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
snowdog said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
HappySqurriel said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
DarkD said:
Your argument falls flat with the good old, people like working with what they know. Ever see an old person with a computer. How about your parents? Do they use all this new technology that's coming out? If so, did they shy away from it for awhile quoting how they are too old for it? People like using what they know works. Technology is the same, and people who love making games, love making games on familiar platforms because then theres no learning curve.

Given this fact, I say the PS4 and xbox 720 are doomed for the very reasons we just stated. Game developers who love making games won't want to develop on them.


Game developers are the ones who have been demanding the next gen tech from Microsoft and Sony. 


Here is the problem ...

The executives at Epic Games do not reflect the opinion of the game industry as a whole, and they have a huge vested interest in pushing graphical technology to the point that the typical developer struggles to survive. Certainly there are lots of high profile studios who want more advanced hardware, but the silent majority is probably less excited about dramatic increases in development costs to target platforms with small userbases again.


True, however, a large percentage of developers depend on Epics engine and will use Unreal Engine 4 for next gen titles. If the Wii U gets those titles they will be dumbed down. The Wii U ports have been quite ok at best. When next gen comes they will need to work around the rules of the top western devs.

I think we may see the Unreal Engine falling out of favour this gen. We'll see Unity 4 and CryEngine 3 gaining popularity, particularly since developers get a licence for the former engine for free with each Wii U dev kit. And after the PS4 and 720 are released (next gen is already here) the fact that Nintendo have chosen a GPU with a fair amount of grunt behind it and low latency RAM combined with all 3 consoles this gen having similar architectures means that developers will find it easier to port code between them. The Wii U will give up-ports and receive down-ports but the difference in eye candy quality isn't going to be as much as people think. We're not going to see the same difference in power between the Wii U, PS4 and 720 that we saw last gen with the Wii, PS3 and 360.


Yes we will see the difference. No one was asking Nintendo to change anything, just their competition.

We'll see a difference, of course, but not the same difference. It'll be more akin to the difference in power between the consoles of the 6th generation rather than last gen. All 3 consoles this gen are going to be in the same sort of ballpark. It's looking like the 720 is going to be the most powerful out of the three and going by what's been leaked we're looking at a console 6-8 times more powerful than the 360. The Wii U is, again going by leaks, 3-4 times more powerful than the 360. Even if Microsoft throw caution to the winds and go for a setup that's 10 times more powerful than the 360 it's still only going to be just over 3 times more powerful than the Wii U, which in the grand scheme of things is still in the same sort of ballpark compared to the Wii U.

There are going to be a lot of disappointed people around once we find out what the PS4 and 720 have got under the hood, people's expectations are way too high. The hardware simply doesn't exist to repeat the gulf in power between the Wii and the HD twins last gen, and even if it did the consoles would cost over a grand, be the size of a small house and have a fan around the same decibel level as a Boeing 747 lol.