You fail to realize that the teachings of Jesus were to remove bondage to the letter of the law and introduce forgiveness and mercy into the equation. Following the teachings of Jesus actually means the 'letter of the law' no longer applies. The shift was from following a law because you are compelled, to doing what's right because your motives and heart are changed. Note that I am referring to following Jesus' teachings, not the Levitical law which his teachings were designed to replace.

I find it hilarious that we now as people are being told to close our minds because science clues us in otherwise... uhh... even scientists and science would not stop until every last brick of evidence and information is turned over that points us to some truth! Ever heard of the 'God particle'? Yes, some whack job schitzophrenic scientist is trying to figure that one out. What created us!? Come on, you people have google and wikipedia, surely you can inform me exactly how and why I came to exist! Most stuff that scientists have come to accept are still theories. I'm not disputing anything in particular, but do you raelize the difference between theory and proof?? Can you go before the big bang? Can you see describe and explain the meaning of life? Can you give me a complete total picture here?! Of course not!! That's why scientists are working so hard to explore and explain this stuff! They will not rest! Even science has yet to explain everything!

But instead of using science and reason to encourage more discussion, we're now instead using that same 'logic and reason' to suppress an open mind. All while also holding onto our own incredible biases and hypocricy. You tell me, without an ounce of an open mind, what purpose you serve in discussion then. There are more ways to view and interpret the world than just the one that you personally hold, but if you don't care to discuss any one of them, then all of you just should get out of my religious/spirituality thread if you're not actually going to try discussing them! LOL! ...what arrogance!

My point is: Even when others have tried to meet you halfway on your own viewpoints, you beat them over the head and tell them to get out of your thread. Hypocricy. Nothing else to discuss here since this thread is now a non-discussion. It's fruitless so I won't continue it any further, but it is sure is uncanny that we're now on the other side of the spectrum of discussion opposite religious zealots.

I didn't ignore your post, I lumped you in with my other post because it not worth my time with all the replies (sorry!). All I have is my personal experiences, but I would argue you would have to be in my shoes to under the significace of that "evidence". However, it's enough to meet my interest and be worth continuing my exploration. Hence, there is no discussion here that we can have that will solve everything for everyone and certainly none that would satisfy anyone here because we can't prove or disprove God. To me it's always up for debate, hence the on-going science. I think I've already said this, so why do I need to re-clarify? It's all opinion now. So there was no point to replying personally to you because we share a difference of opinion. As I've said before, it's not an issue of what someone does or doesn't believe. I could care less if someone thinks differently than I do... but I was under the impression this thread was created because the OP disliked debating it and I thought perhaps he had run into some unreasonable religious fanatic... My bad!

I find it hilarious that we now as people are being told to close our minds because science clues us in otherwise... uhh... even scientists and science would not stop until every last brick of evidence and information is turned over that points us to some truth! Ever heard of the 'God particle'? Yes, some whack job schitzophrenic scientist is trying to figure that one out. What created us!? Come on, you people have google and wikipedia, surely you can inform me exactly how and why I came to exist! Most stuff that scientists have come to accept are still theories. I'm not disputing anything in particular, but do you raelize the difference between theory and proof?? Can you go before the big bang? Can you see describe and explain the meaning of life? Can you give me a complete total picture here?! Of course not!! That's why scientists are working so hard to explore and explain this stuff! They will not rest! Even science has yet to explain everything!

But instead of using science and reason to encourage more discussion, we're now instead using that same 'logic and reason' to suppress an open mind. All while also holding onto our own incredible biases and hypocricy. You tell me, without an ounce of an open mind, what purpose you serve in discussion then. There are more ways to view and interpret the world than just the one that you personally hold, but if you don't care to discuss any one of them, then all of you just should get out of my religious/spirituality thread if you're not actually going to try discussing them! LOL! ...what arrogance!

My point is: Even when others have tried to meet you halfway on your own viewpoints, you beat them over the head and tell them to get out of your thread. Hypocricy. Nothing else to discuss here since this thread is now a non-discussion. It's fruitless so I won't continue it any further, but it is sure is uncanny that we're now on the other side of the spectrum of discussion opposite religious zealots.

I have been avoiding your remarks because I feel your comments come under the pressure of wanting to force an opinion, not to reason with... the only thing I have to say is you're making a mistake by assuming other people's reasoning and state of mind with your comments. You have asked for something that is very reasonable and respectable (the underlined), but then suddenly you are telling people that when they do, they are doing it out of emotional need. You have determined their purpose for them. This is your assumption based off of an observation... it's not proven fact, but you've disguised an opinion as fact. I do believe there is greater purpose in life than just doing things out of simple emotional need. These are my values. It's not as cut and dry for me as I do it out of emotional need. Many things have happened in my life that have altered the way I perceive things and how I view the spiritual. Your opinion may completely differ and that's fine, I totally respect that and hats off if your life has taken you somewhere else... but your request is a trap to get people to conform to your point of view of religion/spirituality. It's not reasonable. It comes with strings attached that are borderline demeaning to someone who truly has a different take on life than you.

Edit: I edited some.

Getting away from the point here...if people would begin to ignore everything else that is being said in a debate, then why bother starting it in the first place? Both sides.

On the higgs boson, it still makes my point about the benefit of open discussion. Even 'sensationalism' around the name would prove that people are interested in science in order to answer these important questions! Science helps us learn. It's one huge huge part of why we care and think about science. It's what makes it fascinating!

These discussions have been going on since the beginning of time. There's no point in trying to censor people who have opposite points of view of you, when we are all pondering for the same reasons... religious zealots throwing scriptures in your face during a scientific debate is one thing that is not acceptable and I agree with you all there. It's not discussion then. However turning that around and censoring other people because you don't like the opposing discussion is hypocritical. In life I've learned to have an open mind and be open to every possibility out there. It does color my world view, but it doesn't make me close my mind to other types of discussion. I just have nothing else to add if the basis is 'please prove there is a creator', because I don't believe anyone can really do that. Please show me someone who can prove or disprove otherwise

Otherwise, I think I have shared my point. I have nothing else to add.

Getting away from the point here...if people would begin to ignore everything else that is being said in a debate, then why bother starting it in the first place? Both sides.

On the higgs boson, it still makes my point about the benefit of open discussion. Even 'sensationalism' around the name would prove that people are interested in science in order to answer these important questions! Science helps us learn. It's one huge huge part of why we care and think about science. It's what makes it fascinating!

These discussions have been going on since the beginning of time. There's no point in trying to censor people who have opposite points of view of you, when we are all pondering for the same reasons... religious zealots throwing scriptures in your face during a scientific debate is one thing that is not acceptable and I agree with you all there. It's not discussion then. However turning that around and censoring other people because you don't like the opposing discussion is hypocritical. In life I've learned to have an open mind and be open to every possibility out there. It does color my world view, but it doesn't make me close my mind to other types of discussion. I just have nothing else to add if the basis is 'please prove there is a creator', because I don't believe anyone can really do that. Please show me someone who can prove or disprove otherwise

Otherwise, I think I have shared my point. I have nothing else to add.

All choices are fundamentally emotional in nature. If not in the immediate act. Most assuredly in the root cause. To deny this is to deny your very nature. This is the reality of our lives. We do things to make ourselves feel good, and avoid things that make us feel bad. The only reason we make choices or take actions is to further this goal. This is our primary motivator imparted on us by nature to perpetuate our existence, and the existence of our species. Without emotional need we wouldn't do anything at all. We would just lay down on the ground and die. Unless you can provide some evidence that your choice of faith isn't imbued with a emotional context. Then your argument doesn't have any merit.

You believe in a god, because it fosters good feelings in you, and it is most likely that you don't acknowledge the opposite as being very possible, because that idea would cause you dread, dispair, sadness, and depression. I don't know why it is such a hard concept to grasp. That people of faith draw solace from having a faith. Faith isn't some force that compells you to suspend your free will. It is a choice you make for yourself. You are right in that what I said is a trap, but the fact that you sidestepped it entirely. Only proves you were scared to confront said trap, and in doing so you only prove my point. Even if you are too scared to face up to the truth that your feelings blind you to reality, because you don't want to get hurt.

You know there is nothing wrong with admitting that you are scared. That is all I am fundamentally asking you to do. Admit that you are too scared to leave that feeling of security. Copping to what you are doing is the only way you can rationally move forward, because unless you are willing to evaluate your emotional motivations. You will never discover any other outlooks on life. By the way life doesn't need a meaning. I think it is pretty apparent that the meanings we decide to attach to our lives. Are entirely of our own devising.

Would you care to continue on without sidestepping this issue. This is the place where innocense goes to die. So I will understand if you bow out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

How is the OP a straw man?  Sounds like a pretty accurate representation of religion to me.  perhaps not all religious people, but by the sounds of it, it seems like that the OP is only complaining about the types of religious people described in the OP.  The repeated insistences of "you can believe what you want" would indicate that, as long as you're responsible about your faith you should be allowed to practice it without fear of persecution.  Sounds to me like the complaint is specific to people who try to use God as an argument to hate, judge, or restrict something.  In which case, the argument is sound.