First week of November in and Wii U still not anywhere near what it needs to be.
On the bright side, next week data will begin our next-gen comparisons as PS4 is included!
Final Smash: Should somone one do this at the start of every gen? | |||
yes | 65 | 75.58% | |
no | 3 | 3.49% | |
show me the money! | 7 | 8.14% | |
Total: | 75 |
First week of November in and Wii U still not anywhere near what it needs to be.
On the bright side, next week data will begin our next-gen comparisons as PS4 is included!
RolStoppable said:
Doing 360 numbers in its first year would have still been failure territory and not enough to make third parties consider the platform in the future. The GameCube was easy and cheap to port to, so really, your proposed backup plan cannot work. As for the possible reason why third parties don't want Nintendo around: Nintendo is not dependent on third parties like Sony and Microsoft, so third parties would be merely partners instead of being in the driver's seat. Nintendo games also raise consumer expectation for the quality of software as most Nintendo software doesn't have an expiration date; hence why Nintendo can maintain higher software prices and still sell more copies than pretty much everyone else in the long run. In order for Nintendo to come closer to what Sony and Microsoft provide, Nintendo would have to pay off third parties left, right and center which wouldn't be healthy business for a company that cannot subsidize its gaming operations through other venues. This entitlement to get paid off is something third parties obviously won't admit publicly as any moneyhats are usually covered up by fishy PR statements. That leaves the question how it would be good for third parties to force Nintendo to become a third party. The simple assumption that Nintendo wouldn't be the same as a third party, just like the crippled Sega we've seen in the last decade, should make third parties feel comfortable. What it comes down to is a fight for power, the leadership in the industry. Third parties want to have it and Nintendo is an obstacle, because they aren't enablers like Sony and Microsoft. Sega used to be an obstacle too, that's why Electronic Arts wanted them out ultimately. Sega didn't give in to the demands ("stop making first party sports games"), so EA did withhold all support for the Dreamcast. With the Wii U it's also pretty clear that Nintendo didn't give in to EA's demands which explains why EA decided to not even bother trying to get Frostbite 3 run on the Wii U. |
How can Nintendo survive then? If third parties want them out they won't ever have good support like the others. And Sony and MS are so similar in what they offer in terms of hardware they will focus on exclusive software to try and stand out. So Nintendo will have a very hard time standing out in the software space, especially as they will devote less time to new IPs as they have to maintain their successful old ones.
But coming up with something special in terms of hardware is even harder. Could they really come up with another Wii again? Especially as many more companies are trying to get a box in the living room. On top of Sony and MS, it looks like Valve, Apple, Google (+ other Android boxes) are all going for this area. Will they all have ignored what the Wii did? Many of them will be looking to pick up the ball Nintendo dropped, and if Nintendo didn't even realise what they did with the Wii why would it be them.
PSN: Osc89
NNID: Oscar89
RolStoppable said:
Nintendo will survive by selling affordable hardware at a profit and having plenty of high selling software on their machine, plus accessory sales. If all components are profitable, the company will stay profitable. The Wii is the most profitable video game system ever made and it didn't have good third party support. There is also nothing that prevents Nintendo from continually expanding their workforce and as long as those additional development studios make profitable games, it's all good. With enough studios around, both new and old IPs can be created/continued without either one getting the short end of the stick. And yes, Nintendo could come up with another Wii again. In fact, Nintendo is the only company who can. In order to make something like the Wii, you need top development teams that back the system. Sony and Microsoft would never go that route, because they need third parties, thus they can't take a radically different route. Valve, Apple and Google also need third parties to make their boxes have the slightest chance, because they have no first party developers to speak of (Valve hasn't really made a game in years). Apple and Google can throw all the multimedia functions they want at their box, but that's not what a video game system is about. Unlike superchunk, I don't believe that Nintendo has to add any non-gaming functions to their systems, simply because in this day and age (and in the future) almost everyone will own other devices that do those things already. So it's pointless for Nintendo to add that stuff, because those features have next to no value to the consumer. What people care about though are games, so that's all that a Nintendo system has to do. A box that plays games and does it well. There is a big potential market that doesn't care about what qualifies as hardcore gaming today and neither sees iOS and Android gaming as something they would do on their TV. Nintendo just has to go where nobody else can or wants to go. |
Yeah people want a game console. But Nintendo doesn't have some "magic" formula. Quite honestly 2 of the previous 3 console generations they've gotten spanked quite handedly by Sony and it looks the Wii U is going to make it 3/4.
People are quite happy to buy a 360/PS3 (cheap, for parents, kids love it) or a PS4/XB1 too.
I actually think the XBox One is the actual realization of a good console that is both casual and hardcore at the same time, it's something everyone in the household would use IMO and it integrates with the lifestyle of a "normal person" by integating well with the television.
MS' problem right now is that it's about $100 more expensive than where it needs to be, but in console cycle likely to last 6 years or more, that's a temporary issue.
I think X1 is actually going to be the console of choice for the "hipster adult" audience that drove the original Wii to success early on (it wasn't just kids) once it gets cheaper.
Cmon rol, nintendo lacking multimedia is bad. I have a ton of devices with multimedia, but I still use wiiu for Netflix and would watch blurays if able or other apps. I use its browser as much as other devices too.
Its just good value added features.
It doesn't even have to cost Nintendo anything. Add a bluray player app to eshop for $5. Done sold.
RolStoppable said:
Nintendo will survive by selling affordable hardware at a profit and having plenty of high selling software on their machine, plus accessory sales. If all components are profitable, the company will stay profitable. The Wii is the most profitable video game system ever made and it didn't have good third party support. There is also nothing that prevents Nintendo from continually expanding their workforce and as long as those additional development studios make profitable games, it's all good. With enough studios around, both new and old IPs can be created/continued without either one getting the short end of the stick. And yes, Nintendo could come up with another Wii again. In fact, Nintendo is the only company who can. In order to make something like the Wii, you need top development teams that back the system. Sony and Microsoft would never go that route, because they need third parties, thus they can't take a radically different route. Valve, Apple and Google also need third parties to make their boxes have the slightest chance, because they have no first party developers to speak of (Valve hasn't really made a game in years). Apple and Google can throw all the multimedia functions they want at their box, but that's not what a video game system is about. Unlike superchunk, I don't believe that Nintendo has to add any non-gaming functions to their systems, simply because in this day and age (and in the future) almost everyone will own other devices that do those things already. So it's pointless for Nintendo to add that stuff, because those features have next to no value to the consumer. What people care about though are games, so that's all that a Nintendo system has to do. A box that plays games and does it well. There is a big potential market that doesn't care about what qualifies as hardcore gaming today and neither sees iOS and Android gaming as something they would do on their TV. Nintendo just has to go where nobody else can or wants to go. |
Both Sony and MS are gearing up to go after this market though. The Wii broke a huge barrier between the general public and gaming, which was the controller. Instead of learning buttons, they made a motion and person on screen did the same. Sony and MS have this in the Kinect and Move, but they didn't do anything beyond the Wiimote and lacked any must have software. They are now both working on breaking the next barrier, which is the screen. Instead of working out where something is in relation to the person on screen, you are the person on screen. They will be picking up where the Wii left off in terms of ease of use if one or both of their AR/VR glasses live up to the promise.
On the other end, Apple and Google are taking over the market that prioritizes affordability. The app stores have many cheap and free games that are available on something the majority already own. Nintendo will never be able to undercut the mobile market.
The Wii managed to be both the most user friendly way to play games combined with one of the cheapest gaming options available. Nintendo will never be able to be the cheapest, and don't seem to have any interest in progessing ease of use. I don't see how they will ever be able to recreate the Wii.
The media options keep you using the system for longer, so I don't see why they don't just throw them in. They will never be a deciding factor when buying a system, but I can imagine that they would increase user satisfaction. Plus why not make the console UI a nice thing to use rather than something you push through to get to the games.
Nintendo have shareholders to answer to right? Staying profitable won't be enough, they'll want increased marketshare. If they try and coast with 20m sold and poor third party sales more than one gen in a row, there will be pressure to go third party. Especially as we have seen how well their franchises sell when not constrained by hardware sales.
PSN: Osc89
NNID: Oscar89
Rol actually has a point about the multimedia aspect being a none factor, to bad it's not in effect yet. Right NOW having a good multimedia support would be good for Wii U and Nintendo, but in a few years it'll be useless. As SmartTV increases in sales and gets better and better app support TVs will soon offer everything that PS4/Xbone does right now, thus rendering the consoles more or less useless as multimedia machines. This will mean that consoles will be all about gaming again, giving Nintendo a second chance.
I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!
Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.
RolStoppable said:
After Kinect and Move, why would you be more positive about Microsoft's and Sony's prospects than Nintendo's? Doesn't make any sense. The only thing where Nintendo will be cheap is the hardware, but not the games. Their Wii software maintained high prices while pretty much all of the HD games hit the bargain bin within a couple of months. It didn't hurt Nintendo that everyone was undercutting their software prices, so cheap and free iOS and Android games aren't a serious threat. Simple media options that don't raise the price of the system can be included, but when the aim is user satisfaction, you better provide games. It always goes back to the games and it's not a good sign when a console is used more for non-gaming than gaming. Nintendo isn't reliant on shareholders to have a healthy cashflow, because they have billions in the bank. As such, shareholders don't hold much, if any, power over the company. Also, investors want to see first and foremost increased profits and companies that manage to beat their forecasts (even companies who post lower losses than anticipated are seen as good investments). Market share is useless when a company starts to collapse under its losses. Third party software sales aren't anywhere close to as important as you think, because the royalties that Nintendo gets per copy are only a fraction of what they earn with the sale of a first party game. The calls for Nintendo to go third party were always there, even during the Wii and DS peak years, because dumb investors believe that Nintendo games on more platforms will result in more profits. They don't get that going multiplatform will cripple the core business; hardware sales will go down and thus software and accessory sales for that dedicated platform as well; additionally, the pressure to price games lower on mobile will devalue Nintendo software on the whole; profit margins of Nintendo products would drop across the board, despite unit sales likely increasing; and once you've gone there, it's hard to go back. Then again, calling those investors dumb might be the wrong thing to say. They want to see a short term boost and then sell their shares. They aren't interested in Nintendo's well-being, they see it as just another opportunity to make a quick buck. Because once they've sold their stock, why should they care what happens to Nintendo? |
I'm not overly positive about what they'll come up with, I was just pointing out that they are working on their own versions of the Wii strategy. You said that Sony and MS wouldn't try anything radical to avoid alienating third parties, but they are using their peripherals to try something less conventional. And given Nintendo thought the Wii U GamePad was the next step, it's not easy to be that positive about what they'll come up with next.
I wasn't saying third party is the right thing to do, just that compared to having their software constrained by consoles that sell under 20m I can understand the frustration in the money Nintendo is leaving on the table. My point was if they do this again with the next console, it could impact their software. It would be an entire decade where Nintendo franchises get very little exposure. Hopefully the handhelds would prevent them from losing their value, but it is easy to see why you wouldn't neccessarily want to tie the fate of the software to the hardware.
PSN: Osc89
NNID: Oscar89
RolStoppable said:
Microsoft will use Kinect first and foremost for non-gaming, because Kinect is extremely limited in what types of games it can do. Their console isn't built around a different control input for games. Sony doesn't even bundle their camera with the hardware, so it's going to see even less software support than Kinect. Their strategies to create new gamers are even worse than the Wii U Gamepad. One year after the GC had released it wasn't easy to be positive about Nintendo either; things got even worse when they presented their Connectivity idea. The reset that happens with every console cycle allows a company to have a completely fresh start. Obviously, it can also go into the negative direction as the difference between the Wii and Wii U shows, but it creates a unique market dynamic that allows a complete loser to come back in full force. You are right that the hardware can pose a huge hurdle, especially if it's not executed well. That's the main reason why the big third party publishers are still third parties. If selling hardware was easy, everyone would do it in order to not have to pay any royalties to another company. Given how big of a failure the Wii U is, Nintendo should be thinking hard about why they failed and why they succeeded in the past. If they draw the right conclusions, then their next console shouldn't be a failure. As an integrated hardware/software company, Nintendo has the flexibility to execute different strategies, especially because their IPs are strong enough to get a system going on their own. |
I was more talking about the glasses than the cameras, but even the cameras are at least trying to do something that isn't being done by something you already own. The GamePad however is trying to give a tablet experience or something? I don't really know what they are trying to do with the GamePad. But I agree that the Wii U failure is an opportunity in some ways, as they won't feel obligated to carry anything across from the previous generation so are pretty free to try something more radical.
I don't think it's just a matter of looking at where they went wrong, they also need to have a good enough idea. Maybe the reason the Wii U exists is that they understood that Nintendo Land + GamePad wasn't a strong enough concept, but they didn't have anything else so they hoped to draw in third parties. Also I don't really have the highest hopes for the next console being a hit, as the timing is terrible. They are going to have to release their next console right in the middle of the PS4 & XB1 lifecycle when they'll be cheaper and have a decent library of games. The Wii released next to the PS3 which had a price and games problem that made the Wii an obvious choice. Whatever Nintendo come up with it won't be as clear cut this time.
PSN: Osc89
NNID: Oscar89
PS4 that's for sure, it will etablish new records everywhere in the world
Predictions for end of 2014 HW sales:
PS4: 17m XB1: 10m WiiU: 10m Vita: 10m
Updated Nov 16th numbers, PS4 now included and with only one week of sales it is now launch November's reigning king.
Also, Wii U broke 4m!