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Forums - PC Discussion - Building my first PC and would like some input

Dgc1808 said:

I always welcome more input. The more I know before finally putting the money down, the better. 


Okay here goes:

First off i hate your budget. No really its the worst thing to do, never ever build to a set budget. When building a machine you really need to keep a few things in mind:

- make sure you have everything you need

- Make sure they all fit together

- know what components you can cheap out on and what components you shouldnt cheap out on

- keep in mind what the purpose of your machine is and build towards that

I think for the most part you've got that down. And you can build the machine in OP as is and it will probably work just fine. But when you start saying things like you want to play Far Cry 3 on ultra settings at decent FPS then that build won't work.

First things first, as many have said the gpu needs to go! You can get a 7870 or 660 (non ti version) with significantly better performance for the exact same price.I would also say that these cards represent the "sweet spot" when it comes to best price for performance. Go any lower and you are compromising...go any higher and its overkill for most games of today at the resolution you plan to play. In the most demanding games (Crysis, Metro, Far Cry 3) you might need to tweak the settings a bit to get a smooth experience (40 - 60 FPS) but other than that you good to go.

I'm not sure if people have said this already but i don't like the mobo you picked for several reasons:

-it lacks basic features such as bluetooth and wifi. You will need to splash out additional cash to add the functionality. Its also a shitty feeling when you spent almost 1000USD on a new pc and it cant even do wifi....but a cheap as shit laptop can. Just something to think about :)

-no sli support, if you plan on doing a sli config at any point in the future this is a no no.

-It only supports max memory speeds of 1600mhz. Not really a big deal but still something to think about.

I would also say that, while you can't really futureproof the core components of a pc, a motheboard is not something you want to cheap out on. If i was you I would target the ~200USD price range for a good mobo. You can get the MSI Mpower mobo for $200 or for a bit cheaper you could get the asrock extreme 6 mobo.

Next the power supply. Someone earlier in the thread said it was a bad choice...i can't comment on that  though because im not familiar with that power supply or the maker. But to be on the safe side you can get a power supply from corsair, the hx750, which has got stellar reviews and is at a similar price as the one you mentioned. Keep in mind you could go for a 600watt powersupply if you dont ever plan on doing a dual gpu config. The nice thing about the psu i mentioned is that its partially modular, which basically allows you to only use the cables you need (not essential but really nice for cable management). Also note the power supply is absolutely not the part you should be cheaping out on!!!!!! It is also perhaps one of the few parts you could say is "futureproof".

Your cpu is a good choice imo. Although again if you don't plan on overclocking at all then you don't need a k series cpu (although that being said I will still get a k series cpu  ). I would also say this is the "sweetspot" for cpu performance in gaming :)

The case is really up to you..do the research make sure it has everything you need, make sure it fits with your other components etc. I dont think you can go wrong here unless you buy a $10 mini atx case lol.  Same goes for the optical drive and your secondary HDD.

A word on the ssd. I see a lot of people say this is a must for a new build...although after getting a ssd and loading my OS and main games on there I cant say the difference in performance warrants the extra cost. Given your budget I would say this is a luxury and you could rather spend the money on getting better core components as mentioned above. As for what ssd to get...I have no idea! lol i spent alot of time researching but dam there is so many to go throug. I eventually just went with the Vertex 4 128GB from OCZ.

I think that just about covers it, ive based a lot of the advice on my recent build and what i felt were the best parts to get for me. I didnt really have a budget though. But i did realise that having a budget would be bad for the build and was not aligned with my goals (which were similar to yours ).

I'll leave some links to the components i suggested below:

The Corsair HX750 power supply: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010

The MSI Mpower Z77 mobi: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130660

The Radeon 7870 GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150604

I hope that helps somewhat although i think ive just added more to your cost lol XD I might be wrong about my whole philosophy about price and building to a budget. But i really think its important to find out where you can get the best  pric to performance, and does that performance match my goals.



Intel Core i7 3770K [3.5GHz]|MSI Big Bang Z77 Mpower|Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1866 2 x 4GB|MSI GeForce GTX 560 ti Twin Frozr 2|OCZ Vertex 4 128GB|Corsair HX750|Cooler Master CM 690II Advanced|

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cloud1161 said:
 I got my AMD FX 4100 CPU for $95 and it has virtually the same specs as that CPU. It's quad-core 3.6 GHz, 4.1 GHz overclock.

And you're the only reason anyone is buying AMD CPUs these days. It's the old Pentium 4 problem in reverse.



I'm gonna remove that place holder components are write what I'm really interested in at this point. The 570 is not up for consideration anymore, XD



4 ≈ One

Shinobi-san said:
Dgc1808 said:

I always welcome more input. The more I know before finally putting the money down, the better. 


Okay here goes:

First off i hate your budget. No really its the worst thing to do, never ever build to a set budget. When building a machine you really need to keep a few things in mind:

- make sure you have everything you need

- Make sure they all fit together

- know what components you can cheap out on and what components you shouldnt cheap out on

- keep in mind what the purpose of your machine is and build towards that

I think for the most part you've got that down. And you can build the machine in OP as is and it will probably work just fine. But when you start saying things like you want to play Far Cry 3 on ultra settings at decent FPS then that build won't work.

First things first, as many have said the gpu needs to go! You can get a 7870 or 660 (non ti version) with significantly better performance for the exact same price.I would also say that these cards represent the "sweet spot" when it comes to best price for performance. Go any lower and you are compromising...go any higher and its overkill for most games of today at the resolution you plan to play. In the most demanding games (Crysis, Metro, Far Cry 3) you might need to tweak the settings a bit to get a smooth experience (40 - 60 FPS) but other than that you good to go.

I'm not sure if people have said this already but i don't like the mobo you picked for several reasons:

-it lacks basic features such as bluetooth and wifi. You will need to splash out additional cash to add the functionality. Its also a shitty feeling when you spent almost 1000USD on a new pc and it cant even do wifi....but a cheap as shit laptop can. Just something to think about :)

-no sli support, if you plan on doing a sli config at any point in the future this is a no no.

-It only supports max memory speeds of 1600mhz. Not really a big deal but still something to think about.

I would also say that, while you can't really futureproof the core components of a pc, a motheboard is not something you want to cheap out on. If i was you I would target the ~200USD price range for a good mobo. You can get the MSI Mpower mobo for $200 or for a bit cheaper you could get the asrock extreme 6 mobo.

Next the power supply. Someone earlier in the thread said it was a bad choice...i can't comment on that  though because im not familiar with that power supply or the maker. But to be on the safe side you can get a power supply from corsair, the hx750, which has got stellar reviews and is at a similar price as the one you mentioned. Keep in mind you could go for a 600watt powersupply if you dont ever plan on doing a dual gpu config. The nice thing about the psu i mentioned is that its partially modular, which basically allows you to only use the cables you need (not essential but really nice for cable management). Also note the power supply is absolutely not the part you should be cheaping out on!!!!!! It is also perhaps one of the few parts you could say is "futureproof".

Your cpu is a good choice imo. Although again if you don't plan on overclocking at all then you don't need a k series cpu (although that being said I will still get a k series cpu  ). I would also say this is the "sweetspot" for cpu performance in gaming :)

The case is really up to you..do the research make sure it has everything you need, make sure it fits with your other components etc. I dont think you can go wrong here unless you buy a $10 mini atx case lol.  Same goes for the optical drive and your secondary HDD.

A word on the ssd. I see a lot of people say this is a must for a new build...although after getting a ssd and loading my OS and main games on there I cant say the difference in performance warrants the extra cost. Given your budget I would say this is a luxury and you could rather spend the money on getting better core components as mentioned above. As for what ssd to get...I have no idea! lol i spent alot of time researching but dam there is so many to go throug. I eventually just went with the Vertex 4 128GB from OCZ.

I think that just about covers it, ive based a lot of the advice on my recent build and what i felt were the best parts to get for me. I didnt really have a budget though. But i did realise that having a budget would be bad for the build and was not aligned with my goals (which were similar to yours ).

I'll leave some links to the components i suggested below:

The Corsair HX750 power supply: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010

The MSI Mpower Z77 mobi: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130660

The Radeon 7870 GPU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150604

I hope that helps somewhat although i think ive just added more to your cost lol XD I might be wrong about my whole philosophy about price and building to a budget. But i really think its important to find out where you can get the best  pric to performance, and does that performance match my goals.


At the moment, I will actually need a wifi enabled mobo. Not sure how soon that will change. I like the parts that you've recommended but looking at the changes, I'm looking at $770 on the CPU, GPU, PSU and mobo.  I wouldn't be able to afford that. Not if I do this this month, anyway :S

EDIT: Really wish newegg had a filter for "wifi" enabled on their list of mobos. 



4 ≈ One

Dgc1808 said:


At the moment, I will actually need a wifi enabled mobo. Not sure how soon that will change. I like the parts that you've recommended but looking at the changes, I'm looking at $770 on the CPU, GPU, PSU and mobo.  I wouldn't be able to afford that. Not if I do this this month, anyway :S

EDIT: Really wish newegg had a filter for "wifi" enabled on their list of mobos. 


Yeah i was looking for a cheaper mobo that has wifi...but it doesnt state on the specifications.

But in general i think sub $200 mobo's generally don't have wifi unfortunately.

And yeah sorry i tend to go for the more expensive parts :D You could always go for an AMD setup. But i have zero experience with an AMD setup.



Intel Core i7 3770K [3.5GHz]|MSI Big Bang Z77 Mpower|Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1866 2 x 4GB|MSI GeForce GTX 560 ti Twin Frozr 2|OCZ Vertex 4 128GB|Corsair HX750|Cooler Master CM 690II Advanced|

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Soleron said:
cloud1161 said:
 I got my AMD FX 4100 CPU for $95 and it has virtually the same specs as that CPU. It's quad-core 3.6 GHz, 4.1 GHz overclock.

And you're the only reason anyone is buying AMD CPUs these days. It's the old Pentium 4 problem in reverse.

No need to get offensive here.  One of the main reasons I chose an AMD processor was because every computer or laptop I've ever owned had Intel processors and I wanted to change things up.  I don't hold prejudice over either company unlike alot of people on this site (not saying you do, just some other people hold alot of bias one way or the other).



Check out my video game music blog:

http://games-and-guitars.synergize.co/

 

 PROUD MEMBER OF THE PLAYSTATION 3 : RPG FAN CLUB

 

He who hesitates is lost

cloud1161 said:
Soleron said:
cloud1161 said:
 I got my AMD FX 4100 CPU for $95 and it has virtually the same specs as that CPU. It's quad-core 3.6 GHz, 4.1 GHz overclock.

And you're the only reason anyone is buying AMD CPUs these days. It's the old Pentium 4 problem in reverse.

No need to get offensive here.  One of the main reasons I chose an AMD processor was because every computer or laptop I've ever owned had Intel processors and I wanted to change things up.  I don't hold prejudice over either company unlike alot of people on this site (not saying you do, just some other people hold alot of bias one way or the other).

wut

http://techreport.com/review/22835/review-intel-core-i7-3770k-ivy-bridge-processor/19

i7 3770K = 225 performance, 4 cores, 3.5GHz base clock
FX-8150 =  160 performance, 8 cores, 3.6GHz base clock
Let us assume, conservatively, that performance scales with square root of core count

Hence Ivy Bridge = (225/160)*(3.6/3.5)*(SQRT(8)/SQRT(4)= more than 2x the per-clock performance of AMD

Hence the CPU he chose, i5 3570K, is about twice as fast as the FX-4100 you're suggesting and hence is the better choice even if you had a company preference.

That's right, processors with the same core count and clock speed can perform vastly differently!

I like AMD but they're extremely dead.



zuvuyeay said:
ok thanks,that PSU is bronze tx750 v2-80 plus and cost £85,

Get this instead. Better in every way, efficiency, noise levels, high quality components, etc.

be quiet! BN194 Straight Power E9 700W Power Supply (PSU) - http://www.scan.co.uk/products/700w-be-quiet!-straight-power-e9-bn194-931-eff-80-plus-gold-sli-crossfire-eps-12v-quiet-fan-atx-v23-

700W be quiet! Straight Power E9 BN194, 93.1% Eff', 80 PLUS Gold, SLI/CrossFire, EPS 12V, Quiet Fan, ATX v2.3, PSU

zuvuyeay said:
 it's a question of shopping around and building it myself which people say is easy but of course i bet there are always problems really with fitting in the case or getting it built for you at the numerous online places

You can always refer to online guides. Even though the prices are different in the US / Canada vs. Europe, there are a lot of helpful PC Building guides with videos, component selection, etc.

How to build a PC: The Tech Report guide

Step-by-step instructions for a custom build

 — 8:21 PM on December 17, 2012

http://techreport.com/review/23624/how-to-build-a-pc-the-tech-report-guide



SubiyaCryolite said:
Cool thread with great advice. You guys seem to be really knowledgeable with hardware. I just upgrade my own rig last week. Too late to change components but fire away, I'll use your advice for future consideration/tweaks.
- 2GB Sapphire Radeon 7870HD GHZ Edition
- 3.6GHz AMD Quad Core 4100FX Bulldozer CPU
- 750GB HDD (250GB Seagate Barracuda+ 500GB Western Digital Caviar Blue)
- OCZ 600MXSP 600 watt PSU
- Kingston 8GB DDR3 1333MHz Dual Channel RAM
- ASRock 960GM-GS3 FX AM3+ Mobo.

Your next upgrade should be an SSD. It would help speed up general applications/snappiness of the system.

SSD vs HDD 7200rpm real comparison -Samsung 830 vs. 1TB WD 10EALX Blue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ursoUUbM1aM

Windows 7 boot + loading 27 applications in about 1 min

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5ZrBM_EPC8

You could also get a $30-40 cooler and overclock that CPU. That would be a cheap way to get more performance out of your rig.



Shinobi-san said:
The MSI Mpower Z77 mobi: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130660

Since he is trying to maximize his gaming performance, the motherboard and RAM should be the first places to cut costs. If it matters,  you can get DDR3-2800 support, SLI and CF support and a ton of features in the $120 Asrock Z77 Extreme 4. The mobo you linked is $190.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157293

Actually even Extreme 3 has most of those features in tact and it was $110 not long ago on Newegg. Instead of spending $$ on a board that supports WiFi, which tend to be high-end ones, it's more cost effective to just add a wireless USB for $10-13:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833166055

Regarding RAM overclocking, mobo support for speeds above DDR3-1600 is not really critical since you can use lower multiplier when overclocking. But as I said you can get that on $110-120 boards. Also there are not many budget RAM sticks that that can hit high clocks. There are 2 I can think of like Samsung ECO Green or Crucial Ballistix 1.35V low profile. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147096

or 2 of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148654

Getting RAM that can do DDR3-2133mhz or faster starts eating into the GPU budget which seems to be a big issue in this case. Furthermore, you'd need to spend a TON to get DDR3-2400 kit in comparison. Regardless, for games, DDR3-2400mhz will provide 1-2 fps performance increase over DDR3-1600mhz and probably barely 1% when you are GPU limited, which is going to be the case most of the time at 1920x1080 with MSAA on an HD7870. It's not going to make his gaming experience any more playable. It's something you worry about if you are running server based applications, WinRAR or something of the sort.

You can see for games, faster RAM is not going to matter, especially as you start cranking game settings and resolution.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/memory/2011/01/11/the-best-memory-for-sandy-bridge/10

Dgc would be way better off using that budget to step up from 7870 to GTX660Ti for instance, rather than spending it on an expensive motherboard and RAM. I agree with you that the original motherboard is not good and in this case it's actually worth it to spend $10-20 above his original board pick. You can still get a great overclocking board with more features for under $130. Getting a $180+ boards as you suggested will not do anything for games and is wild overkill for this build when he can't even squeeze an SSD or a faster GPU.

A lot of people buy into this myth that you need a $200+ board to get awesome overclocking. Here is the Extreme 4 $120 board against $200-400 boards (UP7 is a $399 board highlighted in red and it overclocked worse than "budget" ASrock Extreme 4 or Gigabyte UD3H boards):

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/gigabyte-ga-z77x-up7_7.html#sect0

For a gaming rig around 1-2 GPUs, imo the best way to save $ is starting with the motherboard (unless you need specific features like 8 SATA ports, dual 1 gigabit ethernet, higher end onboard sound, wi-fi/ bluetooth as you mentioned) and RAM. Spend more on the PSU, GPU and CPU cooler since that's what's going to allow you to reach 4.5-4.6ghz on IVB as it gets hot. Also, CPU cooler and PSU can be reused for future builds.