By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - Why Doesn't Nintendo Just Make Games Like Zombi U On Their Own?

Khuutra on 18 November 2012
Soundwave said:
Khuutra said:

Nope, don't care.

They'd be better off grabbing a third party dev like Silicon Knights and exerting some executive control in order to get a good game, like Eternal Darkness, made.

Like what Other M should have been; that game should have been amazing but they put the wrong director on it.

Nintendo doesn't have the skillset or the design portfolio to put together a game to stack up against the big boys in those genres. It's not going to happen. That's the end of it.

 

I don't really buy it. They can make great Zelda and Metroid Prime games, they can't go a few notches darker than that? That's all they need to get to. No one's asking for a game filled with boobs and fountains of blood, lol, even Uncharted or GoldenEye levels of grit/violence would be fine.

Also a lot of Nintendo's staff nowadays are old developers from Squaresoft, Namco, Konami, Sega, Capcom, etc. And more are coming because of Nintendo's expanding into a new R&D center next year (a lot more). Retro also has been up-sized it seems and NST is beefing up. The co-creator of Sonic and producer of the first two Uncharted games is at NST now for example. 

I think the real issue is Nintendo is afraid to compromise their family friendly image. Maybe with Mr. Miyamoto stepping back next year, other designers might be encouraged to try edgier types of character designs/content.

What in the nose-bleeding Hellchrist does image have to do with it? I'm talking about genre and game design.



Around the Network
Soundwave on 18 November 2012
Khuutra said:
Soundwave said:
Khuutra said:

Nope, don't care.

They'd be better off grabbing a third party dev like Silicon Knights and exerting some executive control in order to get a good game, like Eternal Darkness, made.

Like what Other M should have been; that game should have been amazing but they put the wrong director on it.

Nintendo doesn't have the skillset or the design portfolio to put together a game to stack up against the big boys in those genres. It's not going to happen. That's the end of it.

 

I don't really buy it. They can make great Zelda and Metroid Prime games, they can't go a few notches darker than that? That's all they need to get to. No one's asking for a game filled with boobs and fountains of blood, lol, even Uncharted or GoldenEye levels of grit/violence would be fine.

Also a lot of Nintendo's staff nowadays are old developers from Squaresoft, Namco, Konami, Sega, Capcom, etc. And more are coming because of Nintendo's expanding into a new R&D center next year (a lot more). Retro also has been up-sized it seems and NST is beefing up. The co-creator of Sonic and producer of the first two Uncharted games is at NST now for example. 

I think the real issue is Nintendo is afraid to compromise their family friendly image. Maybe with Mr. Miyamoto stepping back next year, other designers might be encouraged to try edgier types of character designs/content.

What in the nose-bleeding Hellchrist does image have to do with it? I'm talking about genre and game design.


There's no one better in the business at game design than Nintendo. Look at studios like Silicon Knights that far and away did their best work under Nintendo and look at the sh*t they did under Microsoft. That's what happens when you lose Nintendo's guidance.

Nintendo knows a good game when they see one. I remember way back in the day before GoldenEye came out, Mr. Miyamoto was talking about it specifically saying the multiplayer was really, really fun, even though that wasn't the type of game he'd create. They know their stuff when it comes to design, inside and out.



Khuutra on 18 November 2012
Soundwave said:
Khuutra said:

What in the nose-bleeding Hellchrist does image have to do with it? I'm talking about genre and game design.


There's no one better in the business at game design than Nintendo. Look at studios like Silicon Knights that far and away did their best work under Nintendo and look at the sh*t they did under Microsoft. That's what happens when you lose Nintendo's guidance.


Right, guidance. Eternal Darkness was a horror adventure title, which Silicon Knights had already proven their chops at when they made Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain. What Nintendo did was make them polish their crappy mechanics and level design into something presentable while letting SK handle the finer points of working the genre.

Ditto Rare with Goldeneye.

Ditto Retro with Metroid Prime.

Now, why doesn't Nintendo grab studios that are good at this crap? I don't know! It may well have something to do with image. It may have something to do with ROI, which for Nintendo always needs to be preposterously high. It may be that the last time they did it, with Metroid: Other M, it burned the hairs off their nuts.

I don't know. I can't say. But the reason they don't develop that shit in house is that it would not be a wise use of their resources.



Soundwave on 18 November 2012
Khuutra said:
Soundwave said:
Khuutra said:

What in the nose-bleeding Hellchrist does image have to do with it? I'm talking about genre and game design.


There's no one better in the business at game design than Nintendo. Look at studios like Silicon Knights that far and away did their best work under Nintendo and look at the sh*t they did under Microsoft. That's what happens when you lose Nintendo's guidance.


Right, guidance. Eternal Darkness was a horror adventure title, which Silicon Knights had already proven their chops at when they made Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain. What Nintendo did was make them polish their crappy mechanics and level design into something presentable while letting SK handle the finer points of working the genre.

Ditto Rare with Goldeneye.

Ditto Retro with Metroid Prime.

Now, why doesn't Nintendo grab studios that are good at this crap? I don't know! It may well have something to do with image. It may have something to do with ROI, which for Nintendo always needs to be preposterously high. It may be that the last time they did it, with Metroid: Other M, it burned the hairs off their nuts.

I don't know. I can't say. But the reason they don't develop that shit in house is that it would not be a wise use of their resources.


I don't agree. They can still make Mario Galaxy 3 and Mario Kart 8 and put one team from EAD on a killer big-league new IP. Ditto for Retro as it seems likely/possible that Donkey Kong Country has been moved to NST.

I think it's more of the image thing. I remember reading that Mr. Miyamoto was some what taken aback with Conker's Bad Fur Day and the main character running around and urinating on things (lol), even though the suits at Nintendo allowed it because back then Rare was their golden goose.

That's the other problem too, what Nintendo defines as "family" is somewhat outdated of a concept. THIS isn't "fun for the whole family anymore":

One thing I think Nintendo would wise to learn, is today things aren't quite the same as the 1970s/80s or even 90s. Maybe for Mr. Miyamoto growing up in the 50s/60s, Mickey Mouse represented the iconic global icon that everyone was aspiring to mimic. Today, the real types of character properties that actually appeal to *all* audiences (dad, sister, the kids, their jaded 17-year-old son, maybe even mom too) is this --

Marvel Comics is actually the "new" family thing (and hey they're technically Disney characters too, lol). I think this is the sweet spot, kids love this, but so do teenagers and adults, this is something that everyone is truly happy with, whereas you know a Mickey Mouse movie ... is everyone in the family neccessarily going to be happy to go see that?

If Nintendo wants to know how they can crack into the "mature" market without sullying their family image, they'd be smart to study Stan Lee rather than Walt Disney.



F0X on 18 November 2012
Soundwave said:

One thing I think Nintendo would wise to learn, is today things are quite the same as the 1970s/80s or even 90s. Today, the real types of character properties that actually appeal to *all* audiences (dad, sister, the kids, their jaded 17-year-old son, maybe even mom too) is this --

Marvel Comics is actually the "new" family thing (and hey they're technically Disney characters too, lol). I think this is the sweet spot, kids love this, but so do teenagers and adults, this is something that everyone is truly happy with, whereas you know a Mickey Mouse movie ... is everyone in the family neccessarily going to be happy to go see that?

If Nintendo wants to know how they can crack into the "mature" market without sullying their family image, they'd be smart to study Stan Lee rather than Walt Disney.


If so, I hypothesize that idiot children will confuse Iron Man with Samus and Metroid sales will skyrocket.



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero

Around the Network
S.T.A.G.E. on 18 November 2012
ninetailschris said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Not Nintendos target audience which are generally children and families. Third parties are usually responsible for the gruesome games or their competiton

Because kinect games and lbp are for the real gamers lol


What are you trying to prove?



S.T.A.G.E. on 18 November 2012
DanneSandin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
RolStoppable said:
Nintendo isn't putting their hopes on third party developers, that's why they are taking care of Bayonetta 2. And like HappySqurriel said, the non-"mature" audience is greatly underserved, so Nintendo is better off by focusing on those gamers. The efforts of Sony, Microsoft and third parties combined are laughable in comparison to what Nintendo churns out.


The Wii U is dependent on third party developers and third party games to bolster the legitimacy of their launch coming into an HD War.They want the Assassins Creed fanfare, they want the COD, they want it all just like any mainstream business would.  Nintendo wants a piece of the pie Sony and Microsoft are fighting over which happen to be an installed based of over 140 million. They may have beaten them but the only thing they've proven is that they have the casuals and will not lose the nintendo faithful. Those are the early adopters. Nintendo needs those third parties.

Not true. There's a couple of million 360's out there that was bought as replacements for a RROD failure, and quite many are buying the new versions of PS3 as well. And I know A LOT of gamers that has both the 360 AND PS3. The install base is not 140 million. I'd say, by a hunch, that the install base is somewhere between 100-120 million. Still a pretty damn sweet pie though ^^


The PS3 and 360 stands at 140 million combined, which is basically a mirror image of the PS2's userbase combined in sales as well. It will grow to 150 M before the next consoles fully launch.



F0X on 18 November 2012
S.T.A.G.E. said:
ninetailschris said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Not Nintendos target audience which are generally children and families. Third parties are usually responsible for the gruesome games or their competiton

Because kinect games and lbp are for the real gamers lol


What are you trying to prove?


I guess he's trying to say that Nintendo isn't alone in the quest for parents' money.

Too bad that's a completely irrelevant point.



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero

S.T.A.G.E. on 18 November 2012
Soundwave said:
Khuutra said:
Soundwave said:
Khuutra said:

Nope, don't care.

They'd be better off grabbing a third party dev like Silicon Knights and exerting some executive control in order to get a good game, like Eternal Darkness, made.

Like what Other M should have been; that game should have been amazing but they put the wrong director on it.

Nintendo doesn't have the skillset or the design portfolio to put together a game to stack up against the big boys in those genres. It's not going to happen. That's the end of it.

 

I don't really buy it. They can make great Zelda and Metroid Prime games, they can't go a few notches darker than that? That's all they need to get to. No one's asking for a game filled with boobs and fountains of blood, lol, even Uncharted or GoldenEye levels of grit/violence would be fine.

Also a lot of Nintendo's staff nowadays are old developers from Squaresoft, Namco, Konami, Sega, Capcom, etc. And more are coming because of Nintendo's expanding into a new R&D center next year (a lot more). Retro also has been up-sized it seems and NST is beefing up. The co-creator of Sonic and producer of the first two Uncharted games is at NST now for example. 

I think the real issue is Nintendo is afraid to compromise their family friendly image. Maybe with Mr. Miyamoto stepping back next year, other designers might be encouraged to try edgier types of character designs/content.

What in the nose-bleeding Hellchrist does image have to do with it? I'm talking about genre and game design.


There's no one better in the business at game design than Nintendo. Look at studios like Silicon Knights that far and away did their best work under Nintendo and look at the sh*t they did under Microsoft. That's what happens when you lose Nintendo's guidance.

Nintendo knows a good game when they see one. I remember way back in the day before GoldenEye came out, Mr. Miyamoto was talking about it specifically saying the multiplayer was really, really fun, even though that wasn't the type of game he'd create. They know their stuff when it comes to design, inside and out.


Nintendo has long since been surpassed in game design. They are moving along just as fast as technology does. Mostly western companies are pushing that ontop of their engines.



S.T.A.G.E. on 18 November 2012
F0X said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
ninetailschris said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Not Nintendos target audience which are generally children and families. Third parties are usually responsible for the gruesome games or their competiton

Because kinect games and lbp are for the real gamers lol


What are you trying to prove?


I guess he's trying to say that Nintendo isn't alone in the quest for parents' money.

Too bad that's a completely irrelevant point.


Nintendo has made it a point that they are a family company, but the fact that they have been left out of the conversation even though they won this gen, they want to prove they can be the gamers console rather than the casuals console. Of course Nintendos first party never fails, and at this point it isnt hard to replicate, but their victory will be written on the back of third parties if they plan to have the Wii stand with the PS4 and 720.