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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony to sell $1.9bn of conv bonds, stock down 10% in early trading.

outlawauron on 14 November 2012
KillerMan said:
These articles really paint grimmer picture of Sony than what reality shows. This post in GAF never gets enough of love:

''Sony are probably going to be fine. They are profitable and once their tax situation is normalised I don't see them having a problem. The reason they are fine is that in 2008 they slimmed down their Japanese operation by around 30,000 and their international operation by the same figure, they then went on to shed another 10,000 Japan based jobs after the Tsunami. In pure numbers, Sony now employ under half the number of Japanese employees than they did in 2007.

Not only that but they also have a profitable finance and insurance division which brings in around $1bn per year, so if things got really desperate they could spin it off and cash in around $12bn to clear debt and invest. Right now they don't need to do that. Next, Sony are in fast growing areas of business, they were recently confirmed as the third largest smartphone player by shipments, overtaking Motorola, HTC, RIM and Nokia. They have also recently entered the highly profitable medical technology field with the world's second largest player, Olympus. Sony and Olympus have opened a joint venture in which Sony hold an option to buy from Olympus at any time of their choosing after 2015 at market price.

Where Sony are weak, TVs, Laptops and tablets. Of these tablets are the most essential for Sony to break into, the Xperia Tablet S was very well received, but then they recalled it and it has hurt their reputation and sales, they should still go on to ship around 2m WW this year which is a good base to work from.

The TV division lost just ¥10bn in the first half of the year, this is down from around ¥40bn, so Kaz has stemmed the major bleeding in the division, some analysts believe that if 2013/14 is not profitable for Sony in TVs they will exit the market. This move alone will cause a massive rise in their share price as the TV division is seen as the biggest money loser (around $9bn since 2004). If they can make it work with premium screens such as the 84" 4K (which has sold through it's first and second production shipments) and new technology such as CLED and OLED, then I they have a good shot at overhauling Samsung.

On Laptops, it is difficult to say what Sony should do with the Vaio division, some say they should just turn it into a high end tablet brand for Windows 8 with professional oriented feature sets (12bit screens, Wacom pen input, ships with Photoshop or other professional creative software) or shitcan it altogether. I think eventually they will go for the former and produce high margin professional products and give up on being a volume player as there is no money in it for a company that pays 10x the going rate for manufacturing (Japan vs China manufacturing costs).''

Interesting post. Never read it before.



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DirtyP2002 on 14 November 2012

@killerMan

this is a random post by a forum member who tries to analyse the situatuion and draws conslusions. This is exactly what rating agencies are for. The big players do these reports all the time and draw conclusions. They have way more resources and knowledge than this guy. Their reports are the reason why Sony has to use this bond in the first place, because nobody is bullish on Sony when it comes to rating agencies or investment groups.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

KillerMan on 14 November 2012
DirtyP2002 said:
@killerMan

this is a random post by a forum member who tries to analyse the situatuion and draws conslusions. This is exactly what rating agencies are for. The big players do these reports all the time and draw conclusions. They have way more resources and knowledge than this guy. Their reports are the reason why Sony has to use this bond in the first place, because nobody is bullish on Sony when it comes to rating agencies or investment groups.


it's post made by person that works for finance corporation. Whole post in GAF that deals with outlook for Panasonic, Sharp and Sony.



sales2099 on 14 November 2012

People look glass half empty or full.

But to deny the negative side only makes you ignorant.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

Chark on 14 November 2012
fillet said:
Chark said:
fillet said:
Chark said:
With all this change and things going down with Sony it makes you wonder what Stringer was doing.


Do you still reccomend buying Sony stock Chark?

Yes if you're looking for a risk investment. I still see them turning around. I think they are a great company and I enjoy their stuff. When companies suffer like this suffer they either fall apart or make changes. Sony is making changes. They can rebound quite a bit considering how big the company is and how reduced their value is. A turnaround could yield strong returns a few years down the road. Maybe these bonds are the better option right now though? Can't say I'm familiar with it.

I'm not a stocks guy, I understand a little bit but I'm more intune with organization planning and recovery. I see a great deal of potential in the route Sony is going, but it won't be immediate. Short term might still be good for Sony though. The restructuring and reduction of various sectors is going to dramatically reduce expenditures and they could very well be on track to yield profits this year. Doing that alone will show the strength of the company help highlight its future goals for investors to start looking at them again. So either now or after Q3 posting would be a good time to jump in if Sony has a good holiday season. If you want more safety wait till next years Q2 to see how the reduced expenditures play out. If they don't go back into a slump then, there is a pretty good chance they are going to be successful. In the years following that Sony will be pushing new technologies and services that could be very profitable.


Risk investments are typically short term payoffs, where a possible increase in share price is illustrated and a vision is in place. Sony are like a country in Martial Law, nobody knows what's happening, nobody knows where it's going, nobody knows if the Sony of the future will be a different one in a positive or negative way. The situation is so complex and has so many determining factors it's nothing but a pure and unadulterated gamble to invest in them.

That's not high risk investment in the classic sense of stocks and shares high risk investments.

You're mixing up high risk investment with straight gambling.

I can't think of a company that would be more risky to invest in than Sony right now, you'd have to be barking mad to even consider it or have a massive disposable income.

Basically comes down to that Sony's value has been it's brand name in it's various products. That is very hard to measure these days, and they are involved in so many damn brands...where are they going. You'd have to be a psychic to know or even have the slightest grasp - wayyyyyy too many variables for even a professional to analyze with even the slightest feeling of being on the money.

Where's the market going? Where are consoles going? Where are tablets going? Where are TVs going? Where is imaging going? Where is the PUBLIC going?

Nobody knows, and even if they did have some good details on one or two of Sony's interested markets, what about the other 9999999.

Sony's future is one big mystery with zero chance for analysis and zero chance for making a sensible investment in.


It's not Bull market stuff for sure. It's bear market. Long term investments. Sony's stock is very low right now, a turn around will yield multiples but you'd have to sit on it.

I think you are looking at the Sony of last year or earlier. They are restructuring, reducing products, shrinking their workforce, focusing in on certain markets. You're view is outdated now. Sony has talked on where they're headed, made key investments that point towards potential outcomes. They are doing the things they should have done years ago. Your concerns are being addressed as we speak. Look ahead a little.

With that said, yes it is risky and Sony's past is shitting on them right now. Despite making proper changes they are feeling the backlash for their incompetence, but with the changes the pressure will ease up and if they reach profitablity investors and credit agencies will start looking at them again and see the difference. There is a momentum to financial markets, when agitated they will fall back easily. It's not until things slow down that the growth will stick. Until then Sony is doing what it should be doing, it is just on thin ice. They need to prove themselves to the majority in order to bounce back. The market isn't a predictor, it is reactionary. I'm predicting. The majority won't budge on prediction, they will react. It is only the few outliers who take risk and beat others to the market prospects. 



Before the PS3 everyone was nice to me :(

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fillet on 14 November 2012
KillerMan said:
DirtyP2002 said:
@killerMan

this is a random post by a forum member who tries to analyse the situatuion and draws conslusions. This is exactly what rating agencies are for. The big players do these reports all the time and draw conclusions. They have way more resources and knowledge than this guy. Their reports are the reason why Sony has to use this bond in the first place, because nobody is bullish on Sony when it comes to rating agencies or investment groups.


it's post made by person that works for finance corporation. Whole post in GAF that deals with outlook for Panasonic, Sharp and Sony.

Doesn't really mean anything still. Sony's sitaution is far more complex than most and nothing but someone who knows exactly about things Sony is involved in would be able to give any sort of fair commentary.



fillet on 14 November 2012
kowenicki said:
Markets see this for what it is. stock down 10% so far today!

Lowest for decades. Market cap now just $9.8bn, under $10bn seems unreal.


It's crazy to think it's currently standing at a $9.78 a share value.



fillet on 14 November 2012

The share price is fluctuating every few seconds have a look at a live stock viewer! This is madness.



miz1q2w3e on 14 November 2012

wtf is going on at Sony?



tonymarraffa on 14 November 2012

I hope they turn this around. Not since Sega with the Dreamcast has a company done so many right things in gaming and get so little back.